Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[deanna82437]

I agree with your evaluation. I believe (opinion alert) that MS was harmed unintentionally in a separate incident, and that the "fall" was staged to cover up the first injury. I think that, had RZ been honest from the start and called for help immediately, the child might have survived. That is my opinion only, but I have read a lot about the case.

I find it interesting that so many people in the earliest threads about this case, agreed with our viewpoint, until RZ was found dead. I'm leaning towards suicide for her, because I believe she thought they'd find out what she did that caused MS to die. However, I am open to new information coming forward about the case.

BBM
I've not read to the bottom of this thread, so apologize if this has been commented already. You state that so many people agreed with our viewpoint. Just wondering who you refer to.

Also the earliest threads in this case were in July. Rebecca was found dead on 7/13. As I see it you joined this month. Just curious as to your statement that so many agreed BEFORE she was found dead. Hope this makes sense, mind is a bit frazzled today.

 

[CDS22]

BBM
I've not read to the bottom of this thread, so apologize if this has been commented already. You state that so many people agreed with our viewpoint. Just wondering who you refer to.

Also the earliest threads in this case were in July. Rebecca was found dead on 7/13. As I see it you joined this month. Just curious as to your statement that so many agreed BEFORE she was found dead. Hope this makes sense, mind is a bit frazzled today.

"Our" refers to revampz's opinion and mine, because I was agreeing with that poster's viewpoint.

Prior to joining the forum (but after RZ's death), I read through some old threads. The earliest ones were about MS's death. People were categorizing her as a party girl and saying MS's death was suspicious. Then mere days later she died, and many appeared to forget about MS and make RZ into a martyr of sorts. That's when I joined.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

BBM
I've not read to the bottom of this thread, so apologize if this has been commented already. You state that so many people agreed with our viewpoint. Just wondering who you refer to.

Also the earliest threads in this case were in July. Rebecca was found dead on 7/13. As I see it you joined this month. Just curious as to your statement that so many agreed BEFORE she was found dead. Hope this makes sense, mind is a bit frazzled today.

Right. This case didn't come up on Websleuths until Rebecca's death. Here is the very first post of the very first thread on this case. 7-14-2011, 8:05 PM.

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6907200&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Rebecca Nalepa[/ame]

 

[CDS22]

Right. This case didn't come up on Websleuths until Rebecca's death.

There were posts that were strictly about MS's death. They might not have been solo threads dedicated to MS ( can't remember) but there were definite posts just about him. They're in the archives and I read them.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

There were posts that were strictly about MS's death. They might not have been solo threads dedicated to MS ( can't remember) but there were definite posts just about him. They're in the archives and I read them.

It started out as a thread for Rebecca but since Maxie's accident ties in with it we discussed that too. There was no thread started for Maxie before Rebecca died.

 

[deanna82437]

"Our" refers to revampz's opinion and mine, because I was agreeing with that poster's viewpoint.

Prior to joining the forum (but after RZ's death), I read through some old threads. The earliest ones were about MS's death. People were categorizing her as a party girl and saying MS's death was suspicious. Then mere days later she died, and many appeared to forget about MS and make RZ into a martyr of sorts. That's when I joined.

BBM
Rebecca's death was prior to MS's death.

 

[CDS22]

BBM
Rebecca's death was prior to MS's death.

Sorry, I mean injuries.

 

[SunnieRN]

"Our" refers to revampz's opinion and mine, because I was agreeing with that poster's viewpoint.

Prior to joining the forum (but after RZ's death), I read through some old threads. The earliest ones were about MS's death. People were categorizing her as a party girl and saying MS's death was suspicious. Then mere days later she died, and many appeared to forget about MS and make RZ into a martyr of sorts. That's when I joined.

Hmmm, I would appreciate ReVampz weighing in here. From her recent post, if I am not mistaken, she stated she now thinks it was murder. Did you perhaps have someone else in mind?

As for Rebecca being a 'party girl', the MAJORITY of us fought that notion, from the beginning of thread #1.

As stated in an earlier post, there were no individual threads early on. We just got a forum recently. Many of us questioned Max's accident from the beginning. Rebecca's death was the catalyst to the threads, as prior to that, and I believe this is very unfortunate, a childs accident was not front page news, until the second incident at the mansion. Then things could not be ignored and have not gone away.

Also, why so vehement? Just who ARE you so angry with?

Sorry, I mean injuries.

Glad that was redacted.

 

[revampz]

HI....I think the death of Max is very suspicious and I do beleive RN had something to do with it. But as I said before I dont think she murdered him, I still think it was unintentional but my theory is she was involved and the situation wasnt a good one. ie maybe chasing him or pushed him and THEN he was thrown over the balcony. What the police have is heresay, what I mean is where her and her sister where at the time and the last word max spoke. I also think the scooter was staged.

When it comes to rebeccas death, I really dont know. I too think that accusations were flung at her from JS & DS, and just not about not watching him properly. We have heard on here that DS thinks RN strangled him. I am thinking there would have been evidence of that. I then think RN was angry, desperate and very scared and staged her suicide to get back at JS.

However I also think it possible that JS, DS & AS got together and decided to "get her" so to speak and JS was not at ronald mcdonalds as he says, hence her being naked, and between him and his brother they tied her up and got her over that railing.

One thing, she was with him for 2 years. Does anyone know if they split how much he would have had to pay her out? I am sure if he was blaming her for his sons death and developed a hatred for her, he would have wanted her out of his life, and you can bet he sure as .... did not want to give her a cent. I am thinking RN would not have been the type to go without a cent either.

 

[SophieRose]

One thing, she (Rebecca) was with him for 2 years. Does anyone know if they split how much he would have had to pay her out? I am sure if he was blaming her for his sons death and developed a hatred for her, he would have wanted her out of his life, and you can bet he sure as .... did not want to give her a cent. I am thinking RN would not have been the type to go without a cent either.

They were not married, he would not owe her anything. And Arizona (nor California) does not recognize common law marriages, there are few states that do.

 

[revampz]

OH MY GOODNESS....EEEKS....in the above post I said DS thought RN strangled Max, that is incorrect and I do not want to cause trouble etc.....should have been suffocated .........

I have no medical knowledge at all, but am thinking that surely forensics would have picked up if he had of been suffocated.

 

[revampz]

thanks Sophie Rose....ok that's that theory crossed off. Here in Australia it is almost criminal. I know guys who have lived with girls for 2 years and lost their houses to them.

 

[thinkingstraight]

thanks Sophie Rose....ok that's that theory crossed off. Here in Australia it is almost criminal. I know guys who have lived with girls for 2 years and lost their houses to them.

Whoa. Really? That's crazy! Moving in together is supposed to be the safer option!

 

[stilettos]

Whoa. Really? That's crazy! Moving in together is supposed to be the safer option!

In CA living together also has legal financial consequences.

 

[SnoopyDoobyDoo]

OH MY GOODNESS....EEEKS....in the above post I said DS thought RN strangled Max, that is incorrect and I do not want to cause trouble etc.....should have been suffocated .........

I have no medical knowledge at all, but am thinking that surely forensics would have picked up if he had of been suffocated.

In most cases there would be signs of petechial hemorrhage, but that might be consistent with his known injuries and would therefore be inconclusive.


I just started reading about this case and it feels truly ghoulish to be speculating about it like a puzzle, but two thoughts:

1. If the child was running, could he have gone over the rail lower down from the landing? Like he was running/scooting, swerved to avoid the dog/tripped over the dog/tripped on the carpet/tripped over his own feet and fell at an angle towards the stair rail. He would fall towards the stairs as if to tumble down, but hit the rail a step or two down (which would be much shorter if he was coming from above, negating the centre of gravity issue) and flip over. Is that clear? If not, I can try to do a very basic diagram to shot what I mean.

2. Could the "Ocean" thing be wishful thinking? I haven't read the statement attached to it so I don't know how it was presented, but a rattling breath before going into cardiac arrest, a sound coming from a completely different source, a lot of options are available where she could have wanted to find an answer and interpreted as something else entirely. I've read many cases where "words" were heard in impossible situations- one was a case where a woman ascertained her very young baby spoke words, despite a birth defect making this impossible. Others were family members being declared dead and then "speaking", which was likely air escaping.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

HI....I think the death of Max is very suspicious and I do beleive RN had something to do with it. But as I said before I dont think she murdered him, I still think it was unintentional but my theory is she was involved and the situation wasnt a good one. ie maybe chasing him or pushed him and THEN he was thrown over the balcony. What the police have is heresay, what I mean is where her and her sister where at the time and the last word max spoke. I also think the scooter was staged.

When it comes to rebeccas death, I really dont know. I too think that accusations were flung at her from JS & DS, and just not about not watching him properly. We have heard on here that DS thinks RN strangled him. I am thinking there would have been evidence of that. I then think RN was angry, desperate and very scared and staged her suicide to get back at JS.

However I also think it possible that JS, DS & AS got together and decided to "get her" so to speak and JS was not at ronald mcdonalds as he says, hence her being naked, and between him and his brother they tied her up and got her over that railing.

One thing, she was with him for 2 years. Does anyone know if they split how much he would have had to pay her out? I am sure if he was blaming her for his sons death and developed a hatred for her, he would have wanted her out of his life, and you can bet he sure as .... did not want to give her a cent. I am thinking RN would not have been the type to go without a cent either.

Hi revampz. Since RZ and JS were not married, he would not have had to pay her anything.

 

[CDS22]

I'd like to know how his neck got twisted so badly that it unplugged his spinal cord from his brain. Very suspicious, IMO.

 

[jjenny]

Hi revampz. Since RZ and JS were not married, he would not have had to pay her anything.

ITA. They were not legally married so I don't think he would have to pay her anything if they separated. Since JS and RN had no children together, there would also be no child support.

 

[CDS22]

In most cases there would be signs of petechial hemorrhage, but that might be consistent with his known injuries and would therefore be inconclusive.


I just started reading about this case and it feels truly ghoulish to be speculating about it like a puzzle, but two thoughts:

1. If the child was running, could he have gone over the rail lower down from the landing? Like he was running/scooting, swerved to avoid the dog/tripped over the dog/tripped on the carpet/tripped over his own feet and fell at an angle towards the stair rail. He would fall towards the stairs as if to tumble down, but hit the rail a step or two down (which would be much shorter if he was coming from above, negating the centre of gravity issue) and flip over. Is that clear? If not, I can try to do a very basic diagram to shot what I mean.

2. Could the "Ocean" thing be wishful thinking? I haven't read the statement attached to it so I don't know how it was presented, but a rattling breath before going into cardiac arrest, a sound coming from a completely different source, a lot of options are available where she could have wanted to find an answer and interpreted as something else entirely. I've read many cases where "words" were heard in impossible situations- one was a case where a woman ascertained her very young baby spoke words, despite a birth defect making this impossible. Others were family members being declared dead and then "speaking", which was likely air escaping.

He had marks on his neck. Sounds kind of odd for a "fall", doesn't it?

 

[SnoopyDoobyDoo]

He had marks on his neck. Sounds kind of odd for a "fall", doesn't it?

From what I recall quoted in this thread, very light marks that were observed after he was moved with a suspected back injury. The matching abrasions were likely caused by a neck brace placed by the EMS. They weren't consistent with pressure intense enough to cause suffucation. In my opinion, of course.

As for the injury- an unfortunate fall is really all it takes. It's a rare injury, yes, but it happens. That said, I'm wondering if he smacked his head off one of the rails as he fell- leaves more room for his head to snap back and cause the whiplash.