Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[KarenM]

I consulted a medical professional in my family who treated lots of people with fall injuries. He said that an unplugged spinal cord from the brain stem was usually due to a sudden and extremely violent twist and turn of the head/neck relatively to one's body. Although it was rare to happen in falls, it was even less likely to happen when one was hit by an object such as a chandelier from the top. A fallen chandelier would cause contusions, hemorrhages, etc, but almost impossible an unplugged spinal cord.

Max probably suffered from multiple injuries: at least a fall and a crush from the chandelier based on the scene he was found.

My relative said if he was to choose between a fall and a chandelier as the cause of the unplugged spinal cord, he would choose the fall. Although rare, a head first fall was still possible to produce enough force to twist one's neck/head to such a degree. A fallen chandelier, extremely unlikely.

 

[Brit]

Like I said, there's an article from the Hinky Meter site that states it's mathematically impossible for MS to reach the chandelier from the stair railing to create the velocity needed for him to sustain whiplash so severe that he died from it. It just isn't scientifically possible.

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/09/rebecca-zahau-case-how-maxs-accident-didnt-happen/

They state it based on what the le said about him running down the hall...not if he was playing on the banister.

 

[steff13]

Wait, is lateral left ala, is that your nose? When I look it up, all I get are pictures of nostrils.

If you are going to choke someone, I don't think pressing just above the clavicle is going to do it. I don't think it would even incapacitate them. It also doesn't appear there was a corresponding internal injury to that external one, which causes me to question the severity/significance of that wound. If someone put enough pressure on that area to choke/incapacitate/shove someone over a balcony, wouldn't there be internal wounds?

 

[CDS22]

Here is the link for the chandelier.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/ms02.jpg

In my opinion, they say he fell from the very top landing, the chandelier is well below that and he could have easily crashed into that chandelier on the way down. Especially if he was standing, planking, or leaning over the railing. My opinion.

Standing, leaning, or planking wouldn't give the momentum to cause whiplash severe enough to die from. They could cause other injuries, possibly, like brain bleeding, but that's not what MS died from. He died from whiplash, essentially. Also, even if he leaned and fell over, he couldn't have reached the chandelier. His little arms weren't long enough. Remember, he's not a giant nor a contortionist. This is a little 6 year old boy we're talking about.

 

[CDS22]

Wait, is lateral left ala, is that your nose? When I look it up, all I get are pictures of nostrils.

If you are going to choke someone, I don't think pressing just above the clavicle is going to do it. I don't think it would even incapacitate them. It also doesn't appear there was a corresponding internal injury to that external one, which causes me to question the severity/significance of that wound. If someone put enough pressure on that area to choke/incapacitate/shove someone over a balcony, wouldn't there be internal wounds?

Lateral means on the side. He had marks on the right and left side of his neck.

 

[steff13]

They state it based on what the le said about him running down the hall...not if he was playing on the banister.

Yeah, I definitely don't think that he tripped and fell over the rail.

 

[Brit]

I consulted a medical professional in my family who treated lots of people with fall injuries. He said that an unplugged spinal cord from the brain stem was usually due to a sudden and extremely violent twist and turn of the head/neck relatively to one's body. Although it was rare to happen in falls, it was even less likely to happen when one was hit by an object such as a chandelier from the top. A fallen chandelier would cause contusions, hemorrhages, etc, but almost impossible an unplugged spinal cord.

Max probably suffered from multiple injuries: at least a fall and a crush from the chandelier based on the scene he was found.

I believe that they feel the spinal cord injury happened from the force of him falling on his face, kind of like when your neck snaps back and you get whiplash. Jmo.

 

[CDS22]

I consulted a medical professional in my family who treated lots of people with fall injuries. He said that an unplugged spinal cord from the brain stem was usually due to a sudden and extremely violent twist and turn of the head/neck relatively to one's body. Although it was rare to happen in falls, it was even less likely to happen when one was hit by an object such as a chandelier from the top. A fallen chandelier would cause contusions, hemorrhages, etc, but almost impossible an unplugged spinal cord.

Max probably suffered from multiple injuries: at least a fall and a crush from the chandelier based on the scene he was found.

Exactly. MS's injuries are not consistent with a fall through a chandelier. Fatal falls usually cause non-recoverable brain injuries, which is not what MS died from.

What twisted MS's neck so severely that his little spinal cord became "unplugged"?

 

[Brit]

Standing, leaning, or planking wouldn't give the momentum to cause whiplash severe enough to die from. They could cause other injuries, possibly, like brain bleeding, but that's not what MS died from. He died from whiplash, essentially. Also, even if he leaned and fell over, he couldn't have reached the chandelier. His little arms weren't long enough. Remember, he's not a giant nor a contortionist. This is a little 6 year old boy we're talking about.

So him falling face first from that high up wouldn't cause whiplash? I would think that when his face hit the floor it would have possibly snapped his head back when his face made impact on the floor. Jmo

 

[CDS22]

I believe that they feel the spinal cord injury happened from the force of him falling on his face, kind of like when your neck snaps back and you get whiplash. Jmo.

Most people don't die from whiplash.

So says Dr. Wang, not I:

http://www.empowher.com/whiplash/content/whiplash-it-fatal-dr-wang-video

 

[steff13]

Lateral means on the side. He had marks on the right and left side of his neck.

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing any wounds on the left side of his neck. Can you point that part of the autopsy out to me?

The wound on the right doesn't say lateral, it says anterior. Anterior means front, correct? I wouldn't consider the clavicle on the side of the neck.

 

[CDS22]

So him falling face first from that high up wouldn't cause whiplash? I would think that when his face hit the floor it would have possibly snapped his head back when his face made impact on the floor. Jmo

Then where was the brain bleed usually associated with a smack to the skull, like what Natasha Richardson suffered?

 

[CDS22]

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing any wounds on the left side of his neck. Can you point that part of the autopsy out to me?

The wound on the right doesn't say lateral, it says anterior. Anterior means front, correct? I wouldn't consider the clavicle on the side of the neck.

The AR lists it as a neck injury.

 

[SunnieRN]

A forehead bump, bloody nose, and fat lip are consistent with a fall. MS's injuries (marks on the sides of his neck, on his arms, legs, back, and face) are not. As a matter of fact, child abuse specialists (the link is posted on this thread) say that marks on the trunk of a child (MS had back injuries) are indicative of abuse and injuries from something other than a fall.

When someone face plants into a hard surface, yes those injuries could be sustained. These marks have nothing to do with trunk and back marks however.

Those aren't marks consistent with falling down or from the stairs. They are consistent with pressure being put on the neck, IMO.

I am certain, that with his injury unknown, the ems personnel placed a collar on Max's neck to prevent further movement or rotation. This is standard procedure and even with the correct size handy can cause bruising. It was linear, not finger prints or furrow.

Standing, leaning, or planking wouldn't give the momentum to cause whiplash severe enough to die from. They could cause other injuries, possibly, like brain bleeding, but that's not what MS died from. He died from whiplash, essentially. Also, even if he leaned and fell over, he couldn't have reached the chandelier. His little arms weren't long enough. Remember, he's not a giant nor a contortionist. This is a little 6 year old boy we're talking about.

According to LE he face planted. Relate this to diving in water that is too shallow, you hit the bottom, even if it is soft dirt, and you see these types of injuries.

Not saying this does not leave questions pertaining to Max's injuries, I have them also.

 

[Brit]

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/10/rebecca-zahau-case-max-shacknai-autopsy-review/

This is an excerpt of the hinky link you just posted earlier

No one could save Max, once he fell. The fatal damage was done before anyone even found him. You see, Max suffered a tragic, somewhat rare injury that was not fixable. Somewhere, during his fall, he sustained a *neck hyperextension injury that* essentially “unplugged” his spinal cord from his brainstem. The injury didn’t sever the cord– or cardiac arrest would have been irreversible. But the hyperextension injury stretched Max’s spinal cord in such an extreme manner, that he essentially almost unplugged his spinal cord from his brainstem. This produced the cardiac arrest at the scene. There is no amount or quality of CPR or advanced care that can overcome a shredded spinal cord at the junction of the brainstem. The fall set in motion the series of events that lead to his death 4 days later. The autopsy report confirms this. And for those who are conspiracy theorists…no assassin is that lucky; no way. It was an accident.

 

[steff13]

The AR lists it as a neck injury.

Where I am looking in the AR is listed under the category "HEAD AND NECK." I'm looking at the top of page 6 of the AR. Above it on page 5 is where it says "HEAD AND NECK."

I'm sorry, I'm still not seeing that as a neck injury. All of my research shows that the lateral left ala is part of the nose. Since your nose is part of your head, "HEAD AND NECK" would be the appropriate section for that type of injury.

I could be wrong, but that's how I'm reading it.

 

[stilettos]

Then where was the brain bleed usually associated with a smack to the skull, like what Natasha Richardson suffered?

Natasha Richardson was not "smacked" in the skull..she suffered a ski accident. There is no proof at this time that anyone "smacked" MS.

 

[CDS22]

Where I am looking in the AR is listed under the category "HEAD AND NECK." I'm looking at the top of page 6 of the AR. Above it on page 5 is where it says "HEAD AND NECK."

I'm sorry, I'm still not seeing that as a neck injury. All of my research shows that the lateral left ala is part of the nose. Since your nose is part of your head, "HEAD AND NECK" would be the appropriate section for that type of injury.

I could be wrong, but that's how I'm reading it.

Lateral left merely means it's on the left side. Since they're discussing his neck, it means the left side of his neck had an injury.

 

[CDS22]

Natasha Richardson was not "smacked" in the skull..she suffered a ski accident. There is no proof at this time that anyone "smacked" MS.

Natasha Richardson FELL. The term "smacked" just means hit in the head. A hardy, icy surface would produce a "smack". Curious that MS allegedly fell but didn't get the brain bleed associated with fatal falls. And that's just my opinion.

 

[stilettos]

I consulted a medical professional in my family who treated lots of people with fall injuries. He said that an unplugged spinal cord from the brain stem was usually due to a sudden and extremely violent twist and turn of the head/neck relatively to one's body. Although it was rare to happen in falls, it was even less likely to happen when one was hit by an object such as a chandelier from the top. A fallen chandelier would cause contusions, hemorrhages, etc, but almost impossible an unplugged spinal cord.

Max probably suffered from multiple injuries: at least a fall and a crush from the chandelier based on the scene he was found.

I am so glad that we have all you new posters here at WS. Welcome. It would be really wonderful to have the answers about what happened the night before and day of MS and RZ's deaths. Every single member of the household and family should be questioned including the children and whereabouts verified. Hopefully there will be a re-opening of the investigation and answers will come for both families. I know the Zahou family is looking for answers. They have said so in the MSM.