Discussion: Is TH responsible for Kyron's disappearance? #2(POLL ADDED)

[stmarysmead]

That is the way our legal system works.

IMO, the reason the fence sitters are sitting on the fence is that they look at it from a Court of Law stand point, not a Court of Public Opinion standpoint.

IMO, most of the allegations that have been reported will never make it in to a Court of Law as evidence. At least not the way they have been reported.

Specifically, which ones do you believe will not be admissible?

 

[cluciano63]

I just need proof
So far we've been treated to a host of things about Terri that are salacious and seedy and possibly even illegal (the MFH plot, if true.)
But no proof at all that she harmed Kyron ever, in any way, or that she was ever even harsh to him.
Even Kyron's parents can't say that she treated him badly or would have any reason to harm him.
Like LE, I need some hard evidence.

 

[angelswatchoverthem]

I believe if the MFH had any truth to it, and was done with any seriousness, the deed would have been done by now? Again JMO! Perhaps LE are grasping at straws because they have no real evidence yet? If they did wouldn't they have located Kyron's whereabouts by now? To assassinate TH's character is the best thing they have to date?

 

[Donjeta]

I love the justice system but it is not infallible. Factually innocent people get convicted based on the evidence that they admit and factually guilty people get off scot free because there is not enough evidence or they can't use whatever they have in court because of technicalities or because the guilty guy killed the witness. The public opinion is somewhat independent of either the factual guilt/innocence or the court-determined guilt/innocence. I'm still waiting for the forensic sciences to finally come up with the lab test that will tell us once and for all who did it, who planned it and who all were morally responsible for it even if they didn't lift a finger.

I have to admit that the news about the grand jury convening doesn't sound too good for Terri because it looks like it might be a Kyron hearing, I don't know what other cases DY and TY could have evidence about, and we haven't heard a beep about anybody else being a LE target, just TH and people she knows. But maybe they won't find grounds to charge her.

 

[angelmom]

Specifically, which ones do you believe will not be admissible?

Not to answer for someone else, but to get the list started:

• the polygraphs
• KH & DY's gut instinct
• the overly chatty/not chatty enough emails to DY
• whether or not an earache is reason to race to the doctor to prevent hearing loss and language delays

I'm not sure if the sexting will be allowed unless there is a penalty phase. The DA would have to show that it is relevant and not just titillating.

and, if they plan to bring in the MFH, they had better have more than the landscaper's word for it.

What's left? Kyron is missing. No one saw him leave the school, alone or with anyone else. No one saw Terri leave the school, alone or with anyone else. There is no crime scene. Terri has hired a lawyer and appears to be following his advice.

 

[Chablis]

As much as a lot of negativity about TH has been cast into the limelight, in lieu of Kyron's disappearance, doesn't this woman have any positive traits? She must have had, IMO. She was helping at the school with teaching to help children to read, wasn't she? I wouldn't think they would let her do that without some kind of background check? She was Kyron's prime caregiver i would imagine, if she had nurtured him for the last 5 yrs. I see in the photos that are out there of him in the media, a very happy looking little boy, that was also taken good care of i'm sure, or it would have been reported to someone at some stage if this hadn't been the case?
I know a lot are discussing the fact that Terri has not fought to keep custody of her baby daughter. I think about that, and could it be because she is aware that she is the prime focus of the investigation into Kyron being missing, that she is feeling immense guilt, and feels she perhaps doesn't have any right at this point in time to demand custody of her daughter? JMO.

Does anyone know if Terri is seeing her other child, the son?

And pictures are just snippets in time, Haleigh Cummings looks happy in her pictures, so did Susan Smiths children and countless unfortunate others. So pictures are not proof of anything but a happy time in a childs life.

 

[cluciano63]

Does anyone know if Terri is seeing her other child, the son?

And pictures are just snippets in time, Haleigh Cummings looks happy in her pictures, so did Susan Smiths children and countless unfortunate others. So pictures are not proof of anything but a happy time in a childs life.

And we know that even abused children love their parents...

 

[nosysw]

Does anyone know if Terri is seeing her other child, the son?

And pictures are just snippets in time, Haleigh Cummings looks happy in her pictures, so did Susan Smiths children and countless unfortunate others. So pictures are not proof of anything but a happy time in a childs life.

and another poster said his "smile doesn't seem to reach his eyes" which I totally agree with, IMHO...insecure, anxious children are often those that have the "brightest" smiles in pictures- because they are so desperately seeking approval...again, IMO...

 

[Chablis]

And we know that even abused children love their parents...

Yes, because they dont know any better, its very sad. Not every moment in an abused childs life is bad.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

and another poster said his "smile doesn't seem to reach his eyes" which I totally agree with, IMHO...insecure, anxious children are often those that have the "brightest" smiles in pictures- because they are so desperately seeking approval...again, IMO...

Okay, ??!

 

[Calliope]

Okay, ??!

*deleting photos of my grandson and his cheesy grin*

 

[stmarysmead]

Not to answer for someone else, but to get the list started:

• the polygraphs
• KH & DY's gut instinct
• the overly chatty/not chatty enough emails to DY
• whether or not an earache is reason to race to the doctor to prevent hearing loss and language delays

I'm not sure if the sexting will be allowed unless there is a penalty phase. The DA would have to show that it is relevant and not just titillating.

and, if they plan to bring in the MFH, they had better have more than the landscaper's word for it.

What's left? Kyron is missing. No one saw him leave the school, alone or with anyone else. No one saw Terri leave the school, alone or with anyone else. There is no crime scene. Terri has hired a lawyer and appears to be following his advice.

I'm not sure I agree with all of this.

But even if I did....let's clarify: all this means is that there may not be enough evidence to charge or convict AT THIS POINT. But, unless all these people are lying, it remains that there is a pattern here...and valid reasons to view Terri as a very real suspect in the disappearance of this child.

It well may be that she never has to go to trial, answer questions, or if guilty, answer for whatever she did to this child. But it will not mean that for many of us, we must immediately forget all that has come forward.

Scott Peterson had a girlfriend, a problem with the truth, spent a day making anchors, went boating oddly on the day his wife disappeared, and was shown to be flirting at his wife's memorial while around him, people he claimed to be close to ....were absolutely devastated.

To date, Terri has a landscaper who claims she wanted her husband killed, a problem passing lie detector tests, went driving around for hours oddly on the day her step-son disappeared, has a friend who left her job oddly on the day Terri's stepson disappeared, was found to be "flirting" with a near stranger while around her, people she claimed to be close to were absolutely devastated.

Can anyone remind me of any other huge difference in these two circumstantial cases? I may be missing something and would truly like to know.

One difference is key: as soon as Laci's body was washed up on shore, Scott was arrested.

Little Kyron remains missing. Terri remains uncharged.

 

[Donjeta]

and another poster said his "smile doesn't seem to reach his eyes" which I totally agree with, IMHO...insecure, anxious children are often those that have the "brightest" smiles in pictures- because they are so desperately seeking approval...again, IMO...

Some photos of his give me the same impression, that his smile doesn't reach the eyes, but I don't think it has to mean that the child is anxious and abused. They might be but it could just be that the child has been told to smile to get a good pose. There are some different muscles involved in a genuine emotional smile and in a forced, posed, polite or fake smile (I can't think of a good word but I just mean a smile that is the result of a conscious decision to smile, regardless of emotional state). Like many beauty pageant contestants, they show their shiny white teeth in a gorgeous grin but they don't get that happy wrinkle in their eye because they smile because they're expected to do so in all photos, not because they're so happy necessarily. Doesn't mean that they're unhappy either, just that the smile is not a simple emotional response but a voluntary movement.

EDIT: Can you spot the difference?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/index.shtml

 

[nosysw]

Quote:
Originally Posted by nosysw
and another poster said his "smile doesn't seem to reach his eyes" which I totally agree with, IMHO...insecure, anxious children are often those that have the "brightest" smiles in pictures- because they are so desperately seeking approval...again, IMO...

Okay, ??!

goes to another poster seeming to suggest that TMH was a good mother to Kyron because he appears happy and well taken care of in pictures...

ETA: not saying it means that he is necessarily insecure and anxious, just saying it doesn't necessarily mean he is "happy" at that point in time...exactly as donjeta states so well above...my kids usually have the biggest smiles in school pictures and usually tell me afterwards how annoyed they were that the photographer "made them smile", lol!

 

[Sherbie]

Not to answer for someone else, but to get the list started:

• the polygraphs
• KH & DY's gut instinct
• the overly chatty/not chatty enough emails to DY
• whether or not an earache is reason to race to the doctor to prevent hearing loss and language delays

I'm not sure if the sexting will be allowed unless there is a penalty phase. The DA would have to show that it is relevant and not just titillating.

and, if they plan to bring in the MFH, they had better have more than the landscaper's word for it.

What's left? Kyron is missing. No one saw him leave the school, alone or with anyone else. No one saw Terri leave the school, alone or with anyone else. There is no crime scene. Terri has hired a lawyer and appears to be following his advice.

I agree with you to a point, angelmom.

• Unless TH's emails to DY contain text relevant to Kyron's going missing, they wouldn't come into evidence for their actual content; however, I think it's very likely they could be used to establish time elements that day.

• The earache issue might come into evidence for a number of reasons (among which, whether the baby was observed by anyone else to have had such a significant problem with her ears at that time), but I agree not for the reasons you stated. It doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it likely that she would drive the baby around to soothe her -- that's not such an unreasonable claim that it couldn't have been true. What matters is whether she was driving around only or up to something less innocent. If others (KH, specifically) say the baby did not show any symptoms and appeared fine that day, that would discredit her claim that she was driving the baby around to soothe her.

• As for the sexting, it would depend on the context and content (what else is contained in the messages other than sex talk), but there could be a number of ways it could come into evidence, especially assuming MC is called to testify by the state.

• If she goes to trial, the MFH is definitely going to come in, IMO. It is relevant to the overall picture. The LS would be called to testify about what she told him. Would it be better if the state had more than his word? Of course. But they can present it through his testimony, regardless (and the defense can attempt to discredit him/establish there's no proof other than his word if there isn't). But it will come in, IMO.

I understand what you are saying -- that the salacious or nitpicky nature of things ought not be considered as proof of guilt; however, most of those things could conceivably come into evidence based on other factors, so I think they're appropriate to discuss (even if I might disagree with the characterization or degree to which something is picked apart).

Right now, my perspective is that IF (and I use the word "if" a lot since there's no absolute proof yet) even half of the multitude of "reliable source" reports and claims of the other parents are true, then I don't see how TH could *not* have some sort of involvement.

That's on top of the reliable (to me) statement by LE that she is the last person known to have seen Kyron (which implies no one else at the school -- teachers or students, other parents -- saw him at any point after TH claims to have last seen him). That's a biggie! These things are all we have to work with at this point in forming our theories, which I think everyone acknowledges are our own personal opinions.

I am not ready to say she's without a doubt guilty of disappearing Kyron herself, but there is plenty to make me very suspicious that she is somehow involved (at the very least, having some knowledge of what happened to Kyron).

 

[cluciano63]

I'm not sure I agree with all of this.

But even if I did....let's clarify: all this means is that there may not be enough evidence to charge or convict AT THIS POINT. But, unless all these people are lying, it remains that there is a pattern here...and valid reasons to view Terri as a very real suspect in the disappearance of this child.

It well may be that she never has to go to trial, answer questions, or if guilty, answer for whatever she did to this child. But it will not mean that for many of us, we must immediately forget all that has come forward.

Scott Peterson had a girlfriend, a problem with the truth, spent a day making anchors, went boating oddly on the day his wife disappeared, and was shown to be flirting at his wife's memorial while around him, people he claimed to be close to ....were absolutely devastated.

To date, Terri has a landscaper who claims she wanted her husband killed, a problem passing lie detector tests, went driving around for hours oddly on the day her step-son disappeared, has a friend who left her job oddly on the day Terri's stepson disappeared, was found to be "flirting" with a near stranger while around her, people she claimed to be close to were absolutely devastated.

Can anyone remind me of any other huge difference in these two circumstantial cases? I may be missing something and would truly like to know.

One difference is key: as soon as Laci's body was washed up on shore, Scott was arrested.

Little Kyron remains missing. Terri remains uncharged.

I think if Kyron is found in one of the areas that Terri can be traced to, then that would lead to an arrest for sure. But if he is found in a location she could not have made it to in the timeframe, it may be more complicated. Lacy was found pretty much where expected from where Scott was believed to be on the 24th, IIRC.

 

[angelmom]

I'm not sure I agree with all of this.

But even if I did....let's clarify: all this means is that there may not be enough evidence to charge or convict AT THIS POINT. But, unless all these people are lying, it remains that there is a pattern here...and valid reasons to view Terri as a very real suspect in the disappearance of this child.

It well may be that she never has to go to trial, answer questions, or if guilty, answer for whatever she did to this child. But it will not mean that for many of us, we must immediately forget all that has come forward.

Scott Peterson had a girlfriend, a problem with the truth, spent a day making anchors, went boating oddly on the day his wife disappeared, and was shown to be flirting at his wife's memorial while around him, people he claimed to be close to ....were absolutely devastated.

To date, Terri has a landscaper who claims she wanted her husband killed, a problem passing lie detector tests, went driving around for hours oddly on the day her step-son disappeared, has a friend who left her job oddly on the day Terri's stepson disappeared, was found to be "flirting" with a near stranger while around her, people she claimed to be close to were absolutely devastated.

Can anyone remind me of any other huge difference in these two circumstantial cases? I may be missing something and would truly like to know.

One difference is key: as soon as Laci's body was washed up on shore, Scott was arrested.

Little Kyron remains missing. Terri remains uncharged.

Scott lied a LOT. Proven lies from the first instant Laci was missing. He told one person he'd been golfing and others he'd been fishing. That's not forgetting an element of your day, that's not blowing a poly, that's just BAD LYING.

Scott said he fished a lot, yet he had the wrong lures (in an unopened package, IIRC), a way-too-small boat for the conditions and the prey, and computer forensics showing he had looked up info about the tides. That's a far cry from parenting your child in a way that some think is unusual (the car ride) but some don't.

There was at least a suspicion of a crime scene - some reported a smell of bleach, plus gas spilled on a tarp in the shed, the messed up rug, and Laci's clothes from the previous day missing. This was all in the first days - forget when they found on the bodies! Here we have no crime scene, no physical evidence at all.

Scott wasn't just flirting - he told Amber his wife was dead before Laci even disappeared. You find me one credible witness who says Terri told someone ahead of time that Kyron had been kidnapped or died and I will hop off this fence.

Amber didn't just have racy messages, she had him making plans to be with her, live with her, while Laci was still alive. Here we have a MFH plot with nothing but they guy's word to back it up, and no indication of Terri hiding her status as mom and wife, no indication of her planning her life after Kaine and Kyron.

Scott sold Laci's truck, stored extra furniture in Conner's nursery, and talked to a real estate agent about selling the house; Kyron's room is a shrine, (even when Terri was alone in the house, she didn't pack it up). That would be too stupid? Sure. We were all gobsmacked when Scott did it.

We don't know that Terri isn't devastated. When have we heard her speak? For all we know, DS went to stay with her b/c she was distraught and needed support and care. I can't claim that Terri doesn't care. Going on TV doesn't mean you care (exhibit A: Scott Peterson). It only gives the public more chum in the water.

Some say those who aren't sure are giving Terri the benefit of the doubt on so many things, but I think a lot of people are extrapolating quite a bit from the very few details we do know. The only fallback position is that LE must know a lot more than we do, but if it were really "a lot more" then she'd be in jail.

There are a lot more differences in the cases, but I think this is a good start.

 

[Donjeta]

How long did it take to arrest Scott Peterson? (Not familiar with the case.)

 

[angelmom]

How long did it take to arrest Scott Peterson? (Not familiar with the case.)

Less than 4 months. Laci disappeared 12/24 and Scott was arrested in early April.

LE had been very open about their suspicions for much longer.

 

[Chablis]

So Terri lists gardening as a hobby and all that.

Kaine has no idea that there is even a landscape man, but there was one.

So, was Terri letting Kaine believe she was the one who made the yard look so good? Because if so, thats kinda weird.