Do you think a Stungun was used?

[Ames]

Got it. The poster was Wolfmarsgirl.

Here's the link:

http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html

Yeah, that's her! Thanks!!! You know, there had been questions about that pot holder maker in JB's room causing some marks too.

 

[CanManEh]

Did anyone else ever see the show about this very thing and they used a stun gun in a pig and they pretty much proved it as much as u can with out redoing an autopsy again but the marsks were identical in shape size colour everything ..however i dont know which show i was watching it might have been that new series called autopsy with DR. Baden....

 

[Tadpole12]

Got it. The poster was Wolfmarsgirl.

Here's the link:

http://www.geocities.com/wolfchick942003/photopage.html

Hi DeeDee249. Wow. Very thought provoking link.

 

[DeeDee249]

As I look at the photos in that link, at the top where the ring was pressed into the person's arm, they are slightly indented (almost like the smallpox vaccinations we baby-boomers all have on our upper arms). You younger posters can ask to see your parents' smallpox marks.
Actually, I don't think those indented marks look anything like the marks on JBR. For one thing, the marks on JBR are very much darker, almost like a burn. I disagree with the coroner's description of them as "abrasions". Abrasions, to me, are more like scrapes. And the darker appearance is not because she is dead. If it were livor mortis causing the darker appearance, the marks would be deep red, not those brownish purple marks.
I do, however, see how the stone pattern in the ring could possibly be what we see inside the mark. I just think a ring would have to be pressed deliberately very hard to make a mark like that, though I suppose if the person tightening the garrote was also wearing the ring...but I am having difficulty picturing how the hands would be positioned if tightening the garrote and pressing the ring into her skin at the same time.
I also read about the potholder loom, and saw the pics of the loom on her nightstand. I believe the scattered hairties were actually the fabric loops used to make the potholder. My daughter had one of those looms years ago, and we actually did use some of the loops on her hair once in awhile when we couldn't find a coated elastic. This was before there were "scrunchies".

 

[CanManEh]

I mentioned a few posts ago about how they had a show where they used stun guns on pig cadavers as our flesh is very similar and i also said that they produced the same marks and i mean idendical marks on the pig as to what was on her neck they also had about 5 different types of stun guns because they arent like the ones u see today where they shoot like a gun like the cops use this one u had to press agains't the body but when they did that they werent getting the same marks but when one prong was agains;t the flesh and the other just off slightly im tellin ya it was more then just looking similar it was the same marks not only the marks but the measurement right down to the millimeter and it was right after they had the barriell that someone said u know this looks like stun gun marrks now if u wanted to find the killer why wouldn;t upi let them do a second autopsy so they could prove indeffenintly one way or the other..but there was no way in hell the ramsey's would let them do that .no one wants to relive that but if it could lead you to did the crime im pretty sure u would want it done..unless u knew who had done it in the first place....J.M.O

 

[PolyGraph]

Has anyone figured out what came first the strangulation or the head trauma? Im still after all these years trying to figure this one out!

 

[CanManEh]

My guess is that the head trauma surelly caused her internal hemridge and would have killed her but the bleeding was taking a bit longer maybe her she or it..saw breathing or maybe even just nerves thought they needed to use the garott to finish it off but i think she would have died anyways from the head trauma thats just my opinon of course..

 

[PolyGraph]

My guess is that the head trauma surelly caused her internal hemridge and would have killed her but the bleeding was taking a bit longer maybe her she or it..saw breathing or maybe even just nerves thought they needed to use the garott to finish it off but i think she would have died anyways from the head trauma thats just my opinon of course..

You know what I shouldnt have started this topic , it should have been in a new thread, so I am going to ask the question in a new thread

In response to your theory I thought the same thing, whoever did kill her (or made it look like it was murder) definately wanted to make sure the job was done. Your theory is close to Mr. ST's threory because i think he proposed the same idea that the head trauma came first and when it was discovered she was still barely conscious, she was strangled. IMOO.

Im asking the same question under a new thread since this is about Stun guns.

 

[BBB167893]

I mentioned a few posts ago about how they had a show where they used stun guns on pig cadavers as our flesh is very similar and i also said that they produced the same marks and i mean idendical marks on the pig as to what was on her neck they also had about 5 different types of stun guns because they arent like the ones u see today where they shoot like a gun like the cops use this one u had to press agains't the body but when they did that they werent getting the same marks but when one prong was agains;t the flesh and the other just off slightly im tellin ya it was more then just looking similar it was the same marks not only the marks but the measurement right down to the millimeter and it was right after they had the barriell that someone said u know this looks like stun gun marrks now if u wanted to find the killer why wouldn;t upi let them do a second autopsy so they could prove indeffenintly one way or the other..but there was no way in hell the ramsey's would let them do that .no one wants to relive that but if it could lead you to did the crime im pretty sure u would want it done..unless u knew who had done it in the first place....J.M.O

That pig experiment was a washout, CanManEh. (Canadian?) They said the Air Taser (the one I own) was the closest they could get. And they didn't look exactly like the ones on JB, as this photo comparison site shows:

http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/stungun.html

Unless you knew who already did it...right-o.

 

[DeeDee249]

That was a great link, SD. I had seen the Boggs photo from the exhumed body, but not the photo from his autopsy, which is much more important, as it relates to the marks on JBR. They look nothing alike.

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

The first impression I got from the marks was "soldering iron burn." But I suppose that was ruled out right away.

 

[BBB167893]

That was a great link, SD. I had seen the Boggs photo from the exhumed body, but not the photo from his autopsy, which is much more important, as it relates to the marks on JBR. They look nothing alike.

The fresh ones look like a hornet attack, don't they?

 

[DeeDee249]

The fresh ones look like a hornet attack, don't they?

Or tick/spider bite.

I am thinking about that red potholder loom on JBR's nightstand. It's been mentioned that it may have pressed into her and made the marks, but I don't see how that would work. First of all, that loom has several points that stick up, not just two. So if she'd been pressed into it, there'd be a line of several roundish marks, not 2 parallel marks. Also they are in two different places- on her back and her face.
While I can imagine her lying on the loom (making the marks on her back) and then being turned onto her stomach (the garrote was knotted at the back of her neck- it was made on her while she was face down.
But the loom doesn't explain why there are only 2 marks and not a line of them.

 

[CanManEh]

That pig experiment was a washout, CanManEh. (Canadian?) They said the Air Taser (the one I own) was the closest they could get. And they didn't look exactly like the ones on JB, as this photo comparison site shows:

http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/stungun.html

Unless you knew who already did it...right-o.

Well you clearly did not ssee the same show that i seen UNFORTUNINTLLY I can not recall what show it was that i seen it on HOWEVER they did say it was an EXACT match..

 

[CanManEh]

In fact the picture you just produced just goes to show you that there identical so the stun gun was on an angle big deal and she was deceased and decomp starts immedientlly the pig wasnt it was just inestatised thats why the marks look darker on jon benet then the pig. dont state that they dont match then put up the pictures to prove they do....REGARDLESS THERE STILL NOT THE SAME ONES I SAW CONDUCTED FROM START TO FINISH ON TV..

 

[Ames]

That pig experiment was a washout, CanManEh. (Canadian?) They said the Air Taser (the one I own) was the closest they could get. And they didn't look exactly like the ones on JB, as this photo comparison site shows:

http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/stungun.html

Unless you knew who already did it...right-o.

I wonder how far apart those pot holder maker looms are? I wonder if she fell on hers. It was found in her bedroom, and there nylon stretchy potholding making things strewn around the room.

 

[Ames]

Or tick/spider bite.

I am thinking about that red potholder loom on JBR's nightstand. It's been mentioned that it may have pressed into her and made the marks, but I don't see how that would work. First of all, that loom has several points that stick up, not just two. So if she'd been pressed into it, there'd be a line of several roundish marks, not 2 parallel marks. Also they are in two different places- on her back and her face.
While I can imagine her lying on the loom (making the marks on her back) and then being turned onto her stomach (the garrote was knotted at the back of her neck- it was made on her while she was face down.
But the loom doesn't explain why there are only 2 marks and not a line of them.

Just read your post after posting mine, what if her shirt was down when she was lying on the pot holder loom? And maybe pulled up a little in the back, where her back came in direct contact with it. That would explain why there are only two marks, instead of a row of them...her shirt was a buffer.

 

[BBB167893]

In fact the picture you just produced just goes to show you that there identical so the stun gun was on an angle big deal and she was deceased and decomp starts immedientlly the pig wasnt it was just inestatised thats why the marks look darker on jon benet then the pig. dont state that they dont match then put up the pictures to prove they do....REGARDLESS THERE STILL NOT THE SAME ONES I SAW CONDUCTED FROM START TO FINISH ON TV..

I know what show you're talking about. And Smit himself later said it was not exact, but it was the closest he could get.

I hardly see how the pictures prove it. The different angle, the improper spacing, the fact that they were described as abrasions (scratches) and not burns in the autopsy report. I've zapped myself several times, and the marks never came out like that. (The things I do for this case!)

she was deceased and decomp starts immedientlly the pig wasnt it was just inestatised thats why the marks look darker on jon benet then the pig.

Gerald Boggs was dead when the marks on him were photographed and they don't look like hers. They look like the marks on my body.

"You can look at a photograph all you want, and say it looks like 'X,' but
when you have a forensic pathologist who has performed hundreds and
hundreds of autopsies - and was at the scene - and he said they are
abrasions, that carries a lot of weight.- Mike Kane

Erin Moriarty: "How sure are you that it's not a stun gun?"

Dr. Werner Spitz: "Well I'm a hundred percent sure because stun gun injuries don't look like that."

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "Dr. Werner Spitz, a nationally known pathologist who has worked on
major cases including the assassination of J.F. Kennedy."

(photos of marks on pig and marks on JonBenét)

Erin Moriarty: "This was found on her and this was done on a pig skin."

Dr. Werner Spitz: "Are you telling me that this looks to you like the other one, the one that JonBenét has? They don't look like that to me, at all. A stun gun injury is an electrical burn, it's a burn, essentially. And these don't look like burns."

Erin Moriarty: (Voice Over) "Instead, Spitz believes the large dark mark on JonBenét's face was left by a snap on a piece of clothing."

Dr. Werner Spitz: "You know like the snaps they have on blue jeans, for instance. If you look at this one below the ear, this thing here. If you look at it closely with a magnifying glass you will see within this brownish mark there is a boat shaped structure which is missing in any of the other injuries."

dont state that they dont match then put up the pictures to prove they do

You must be thinking of someone else.

 

[DeeDee249]

Just read your post after posting mine, what if her shirt was down when she was lying on the pot holder loom? And maybe pulled up a little in the back, where her back came in direct contact with it. That would explain why there are only two marks, instead of a row of them...her shirt was a buffer.

Yes, but what about the mark(s) on her cheek? I know most people acknowledge that there is only 1 mark on her cheek, but if you look closely at the autopsy photo (the really awful one that shows her open mouth) you can see the faint outline of a second mark closer to where the tape may have covered her jaw. Whatever made the mark may have also pressed into her over that tape.

 

[Ames]

Yes, but what about the mark(s) on her cheek? I know most people acknowledge that there is only 1 mark on her cheek, but if you look closely at the autopsy photo (the really awful one that shows her open mouth) you can see the faint outline of a second mark closer to where the tape may have covered her jaw. Whatever made the mark may have also pressed into her over that tape.

I don't know what could have made that mark, but I was looking at the ones on her back again, and they look like they could have been made my a large needle. It, imo...looks like something penetrated the skin a little.