Ebola outbreak - general thread #7

[Sonya610]

Hey, girl. :blowkiss: Between your snips & reply, I'm not sure if something got lost in the translation or not...? We already know they can develop antibodies, either from exposure to EBOV or antigens.

My point was if he does not develop antibodies (because he never had enough exposure) then his quarantine teaches us nothing.

 

[jjenny]

My point was if he does not develop antibodies (because he never had enough exposure) then his quarantine teaches us nothing.

But we don't know that until he is tested.

 

[Muffet]

My point was if he does not develop antibodies (because he never had enough exposure) then his quarantine teaches us nothing.

Ahh, and yes, exactly. That's why I thought killing Excalibur was such a waste, even from the coldest perspective.

I'm actually doubtful that even he had enough exposure to give us any exposure-to-seroconversion time points, but between him and Bentley, we would still have a little more data to help in assessing the risks. (And getting ignorant screamers to ST#U, IYKWIM :innocent: )

If we don't get enough to cite soon, I'm afraid some lab is going to run a test using a lot of healthy dogs.

Since they apparently come through exposure unscathed, that might make them relatively lucky, if they were on the lab track already, but I'm sure they'd still be sacrificed at the end.

Now I need a Vicodin with my coffee. hdear:

Sending heartfelt wishes for strength to Teresa, whenever they tell her.

 

[raeann]

Here is one organizations efforts to provide useful aid to Liberia..... FYI



Snipped:
"Clinic in a Can – a Wichita-based nonprofit that converts shipping containers into medical clinics – is trying to raise $300,000 for Ebola crisis response in Africa.

The effort includes sending eight of its solar-powered clinics, collecting food locally and collecting money for food to be purchased by aid organizations in Africa, said Mike Wawrzewski, a physician assistant and founder of Clinic in a Can.

“We’re trying to create a Wichita response and we hope as many people become involved as possible and that it becomes a focus instead of people on the sidelines wondering what can they do,” Wawrzewski said.

“Now they have something they can do because it’s better to fight it and treat it over there. The longer it goes on, the potential of us having to treat it at our back door goes up.”

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/news/local/article3193714.html#storylink=cpy

 

[winnnancy]

Ahh, and yes, exactly. That's why I thought killing Excalibur was such a waste, even from the coldest perspective.

I'm actually doubtful that even he had enough exposure to give us any exposure-to-seroconversion time points, but between him and Bentley, we would still have a little more data to help in assessing the risks. (And getting ignorant screamers to ST#U, IYKWIM :innocent: )

If we don't get enough to cite soon, I'm afraid some lab is going to run a test using a lot of healthy dogs.

Since they apparently come through exposure unscathed, that might make them relatively lucky, if they were on the lab track already, but I'm sure they'd still be sacrificed at the end.

Now I need a Vicodin with my coffee. hdear:

Sending heartfelt wishes for strength to Teresa, whenever they tell her.

Bentley and Excalibur are(were) beloved pets. Although perhaps a little lonely, Bentley is being treated humanely and and will be reunited with Nina once they are both clear of the virus.
Perhaps Bentley doesn't have much human contact at this time but considering the potential risks to human companions( who are still not his Nina) and the community- humanity, Its my opinion that even keeping him alive in quarantine is amazing. Consider that in the European countryside, strays join packs and the feral groups attack livestock and people. These pose a risk to people and are hunted and destroyed. If the goal is not risk human lives by looking after human patients- and I believe the recommendation is to minimalize invasive procedures and exposure to medical staff, why would it be alright to risk human life for the entertainment of a pet?
Hopefully, there is something learned from the quarantine.

Animals are treated worse for far less noble causes. i.e.: Puppy mills where the ***** is kept in a crate in her own excrement, bred continuously and never sees the light of day all in the name of profit and greed.

 

[Sonya610]

why would it be alright to risk human life for the entertainment of a pet?
Hopefully, there is something learned from the quarantine.

Because the testing is for the benefit of HUMANS not the dog, and Bentley is a privately owned canine!

The judge has had Bentley quarantined but that does NOT mean they can do whatever they like to him and test him however they like. Personally if it were one of MY dogs had to be quarantined and they wanted to run tests for the benefit of HUMANS then they darn well had better do everything they can to make my dog comfortable or they can forget about their research. They can just test the dog for the LIVE virus at the end of the quarantine for his benefit so he can be released.

That dog is PRIVATE PROPERTY, if they wanted to push the matter a judge could decide and all things considered there wouldn't be a decision anytime soon so it would be pointless.

 

[winnnancy]

Because the testing is for the benefit of HUMANS not the dog, and Bentley is a privately owned canine!

The judge has had Bentley quarantined but that does NOT mean they can do whatever they like to him and test him however they like. Personally if it were one of MY dogs had to be quarantined and they wanted to run tests for the benefit of HUMANS then they darn well had better do everything they can to make my dog comfortable or they can forget about their research. They can just test the dog for the LIVE virus at the end of the quarantine for his benefit so he can be released.

That dog is PRIVATE PROPERTY, if they wanted to push the matter a judge could decide and all things considered there wouldn't be a decision anytime soon so it would be pointless.

Privately owned or not, It doesn't mean that humans should be put at risk so that Bentley can have human contact.

Im quite certain the courts will support whatever is for the greater good of American citizens. My feeling is that there ARE already laws in place that allow for seizure of personal property in situations of crisis and theres likely very little negotiating room as to terms. They will be as ethical and generous in his care as they can AFFORD to be.

 

[Sonya610]

Im quite certain the courts will support whatever is for the greater good of American citizens. My feeling is that there ARE already laws in place that allow for seizure of personal property in situations of crisis and theres likely very little negotiating room as to terms. They will be as ethical and generous in his care as they can AFFORD to be.

LEGALLY they do not have the right, and a court would HAVE TO decide. Yeah, let's see this go to court, with poor Nina in a hospital bed after she did the right thing. Bentley is Nina's dog and if someone wants to sue her and strip her of her rights in a court of law well....I dare them to try.

And FYI seizure of personal property is DIFFERENT than impounding or quarantining. They can impound your car and hold it, but they can't paint it or take it on a joyride across country or sell the stereo system for pocket money while it is still YOUR legal property.

 

[winnnancy]

LEGALLY they do not have the right, and a court would HAVE TO decide. Yeah, let's see this go to court, with poor Nina in a hospital bed after she did the right thing and did NOT hide her little dog.

And FYI seizure of personal property is DIFFERENT than impounding or quarantining. They can impound your car and hold it, but they can't paint it or take it on a joyride across country or sell the stereo system for pocket money while it is still YOUR legal property.

If they can fully strip your car at the border and not be obligated to put it back together, they can.
No worries, you'd be compensated.

Nina likely recognizes that if the dog is shedding the virus, whoever was looking after it would likewise be infected. Family, friends?
this is unfortunate but it keeps people safe and had it gone the other way and there there was an epidemic, the role of pets in transmitting/ containing the virus would have to be considered.

 

[Sonya610]

Im quite certain the courts will support whatever is for the greater good of American citizens. My feeling is that there ARE already laws in place that allow for seizure of personal property in situations of crisis and theres likely very little negotiating room as to terms. They will be as ethical and generous in his care as they can AFFORD to be.

LEGALLY they do not have the right, and a court would HAVE TO decide. Yeah, let's see this go to court, with poor Nina in a hospital bed after she did the right thing and did NOT hide her little dog.

And FYI seizure of personal property is MUCH different. They can "seize" your car and hold it, but they can't paint it or take it on a joyride across country or sell the stereo system while it is still YOUR legal property.


Regardless -- A&M's original plan of 3 solid weeks in a cage without human contact was squashed immediately.

So it is a moot point. For some reason they decided to change their plan fast and I doubt if it had anything to do with their own ethics or risk.

 

[raeann]

While, for some, the issue of pets is quite emotional....the fact is that pets are taken from owners every day for various reasons of safety to humans around them. It IS legal and not necessary to be a court ordered decision. A pet who may have rabies, or one that has bitten a neighbor, or attacked a child visiting the home is a danger to humans and is removed from the owner legally.
NO ONE here knows what NP has signed or agreed to regarding her pet, so it seems pointless to argue that her rights are being infringed upon, when perhaps she is perfectly at peace with the way he is being watched over at this time.

jmo

 

[winnnancy]

LEGALLY they do not have the right, and a court would HAVE TO decide. Yeah, let's see this go to court, with poor Nina in a hospital bed after she did the right thing and did NOT hide her little dog.

And FYI seizure of personal property is MUCH different. They can "seize" your car and hold it, but they can't paint it or take it on a joyride across country or sell the stereo system while it is still YOUR legal property.


Regardless -- A&M's original plan of 3 solid weeks in a cage without human contact was squashed immediately.

So it is a moot point. For some reason they decided to change their plan fast and I doubt if it had anything to do with ethics or risk.

Ethics, consideration of Ninas property( maybe) and the fact that they can learn definitively to benefit people are possibly the reasons they didn't simply euthanize the animal.

No they can't joyride but they can split seats and tear up carpet, pry a trunk etc... anything that is reasonable in the situation. The point being that decisions to seize are made by judges BASED ON legal precedent.

The cage would have been an uncomfortable accommodation but it seems to me that they are sampling weekly based on a post here.

Has there been anything posted as to whether Ninas family can enter her isolation room?

 

[SCHMAE]

I am thinking that Bentley will be a trendsetter and a celebrity after this I also think that info gained from him will help other dogs in the future when faced with this......if there are any more. The question of whether or not dogs can carry it or get it will at least have a ' patient zero' to refer to. Let's face it, both nurses ( assuming they make full recoveries ) will be in an interesting position afterwards. I think they will write books and give speeches to medical students and virus biologists and members of congress about their ordeal and illnesses. They may not become millionaires over it but there is definitely room for them to use this to their advantage . Bentley too !

 

[SCHMAE]

Go Nina !!!!!!!!!!!
WFAA-TV
5 mins · Edited ·
UPDATE: Condition of ‪#‎Ebola‬ patient ‪#‎NinaPham‬, upgraded from fair to good. ‪#‎SupportTheScrubs‬
MORE: http://1.usa.gov/1CS5bCI

 

[Sonya610]

A pet who may have rabies, or one that has bitten a neighbor, or attacked a child visiting the home is a danger to humans and is removed from the owner legally.

NO ONE here knows what NP has signed or agreed to regarding her pet, so it seems pointless to argue that her rights are being infringed upon, when perhaps she is perfectly at peace with the way he is being watched over at this time.

jmo

First of all; when pets are taken due to rabies, or attacking a neighbor or child, that is because there are EXISTING LAWS that govern rabies and attacks. NONE of those laws allow for the dog to be treated as a lab specimen! It is quarantine until clear or euthanize, not confiscate someone's dog and use them any way you like for medical research.

Are there any existing laws regarding pets that MAY have been exposed to Ebola? If so please cite those laws with links.

Secondly; to assume Nina signed legal documents that allow the authorities to treat her dog as a lab specimen is a HUGE leap. If she had signed those documents A&M would not have rapidly changed their plans.

Thirdly; this is the reason I would never voluntarily participate in ANY Ebola tracking, testing, or monitoring. H*ll no.

 

[SCHMAE]

First of all; when pets are taken due to rabies, or attacking a neighbor or child, that is because there are EXISTING LAWS that govern rabies and attacks. NONE of those laws allow for the dog to be treated as a lab specimen! It is quarantine until clear or euthanize, not confiscate someone's dog and use them any way you like for medical research.

Are there any existing laws regarding pets that MAY have been exposed to Ebola? If so please cite those laws with links.

Secondly; to assume Nina signed legal documents that allow the authorities to treat her dog as a lab specimen is a HUGE leap. If she had signed those documents A&M would not have rapidly changed their plans.

Thirdly; this is the reason I would never voluntarily participate in ANY Ebola tracking, testing, or monitoring. H*ll no.

Do you mean if you knew you were exposed to someone with it you would not tell? You don't have to answer, but I have wondered this. I've thought about people seeing on the news about getting quarantined in their home out of work for nearly a month and their pets and or possessions seized and wondered if people would decline. Yes, some would be too afraid of getting sick and want the authorities to know to track them. But surely there would be some others who would just take a chance and pray because they don't want to go through all of that for a possible exposure. It's a life altering event to just accidentally be on a plane after someone .

 

[Elley Mae]

I am thinking that Bentley will be a trendsetter and a celebrity after this I also think that info gained from him will help other dogs in the future when faced with this......if there are any more. The question of whether or not dogs can carry it or get it will at least have a ' patient zero' to refer to. Let's face it, both nurses ( assuming they make full recoveries ) will be in an interesting position afterwards. I think they will write books and give speeches to medical students and virus biologists and members of congress about their ordeal and illnesses. They may not become millionaires over it but there is definitely room for them to use this to their advantage . Bentley too !

I am wondering if the price is going to go up on them, my sister is getting one in april, I hope she has been quoted a price thinking about it now.


Journalist Who Contracted Ebola Now Disease Free

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/journalist-contracted-ebola-now-disease-free/story?id=26349550

More great news.

 

[SCHMAE]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/21/ebola-cameraman-tweeting/17678173/

 

[angela]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/21/ebola-cameraman-tweeting/17678173/

Yay. The story says Nina was upgraded back to good condition.

 

[winnnancy]

Yay. The story says Nina was upgraded back to good condition.

I'm so happy to hear this! Its wonderful news.