Emergency custody papers filed by mother of JI's son 11/14/11

[madge]

The fact remains though that both Deb and Jeremy KNEW he was going to be gone that night! They both knew that 3 children were gonna be in her care for the whole night! The very fact that she "chose" to party THAT particular evening, and Jeremy went along with it, shows neglect and abuse!

Fine the nights they say Jeremy watched the kids, I personally don't know man, y men who would work all day long and then come home and babysit all night too while the wife party's down and blacks out/passes out.

This happening on the very night he was away is just that, he was away, but the drinking seems to be most likely an every day event. IMHO that is one of the things they are hiding, other stuff as well.

 

[hambirg]

I think sadly, something can happen very quickly. This is a sad incident that just happened locally. There doesn't always have to be prior abuse or anything sinister. It only takes one time. . .for a few brief seconds.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/mother-man-accused-shaking-daughter-says-her-son-i/nFycX/

Flowers is accused of shaking his 8-month-old daughter. According to a probable cause affidavit, Flowers was angry because he had to stop playing a video game on Wednesday night when the girl wouldn’t stop crying.

“I just shook her a little bit to get her to stop crying,” Flowers said, according to the documents.

According to court documents, when Flowers was informed it is not likely the girl will survive, he said, “I know I’m going to get life.”

 

[Nixie]

Don't start that now, I did NOT say there was abuse, go back and read above and also read the post I quoted. nufsaid jmo

I wasn't starting anything I was responding to your post.....if I misunderstood you could have just told me! nufsaid

 

[MissJames]

BBM
As did little Caylee Anthony. A picture doesn't always tell the truth and what happens behind closed doors we will sometimes never know.
From where I sit whomever can deem her a great mom on the whole, but I disagree from what I know.
A great mom doesn't ever put herself before her children.
I would love to know if when Jeremy was home if they both ever got drunk while in charge of their children.

MOO

And Susan Smith's boys looked like she adored them. Abuse doesn't have to be physical.

 

[MissJames]

I think sadly, something can happen very quickly. This is a sad incident that just happened locally. There doesn't always have to be prior abuse or anything sinister. It only takes one time. . .for a few brief seconds.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/mother-man-accused-shaking-daughter-says-her-son-i/nFycX/

Flowers is accused of shaking his 8-month-old daughter. According to a probable cause affidavit, Flowers was angry because he had to stop playing a video game on Wednesday night when the girl wouldn’t stop crying.

“I just shook her a little bit to get her to stop crying,” Flowers said, according to the documents.

According to court documents, when Flowers was informed it is not likely the girl will survive, he said, “I know I’m going to get life.”

I've fostered several shaken babies ,although they were shaken all shaken between 6-8 weeks old. Torn retinas ,cerebral palsey ,brain damage that impairs cognitive development ,are what the ones who live are left with.

Every one of them was returned to the offending parent (mothers) .If they die the parent is arrested.If they live the parent gets them back :banghead:

 

[MissJames]

:deadhorse:

With the gag order in place and absolutely zero real information regarding this matter, this whole thread feels like it is simply an exercise in the above emoticon. All this thread seems to accomplish is encourage members whose opinions differ to continue to rehash the same old nonfact enhanced debate that has been occurring for months now.

I am now dizzy and I have only been in lurk mode, not really participating.

Time for me to climb off this spinning teacup.

I have logged out before and just read through threads (not just this case) . The debates I engage in just seem so petty and silly when I disengage , I shake my head at myself. When there's a void to fill ,as we have in this case,it's even worse.It doesn't matter what position we take ,it starts to sound like a bad marriage . We pounce on each others thoughts and point out why the other is wrong .
Dr. Phil calls it "right fighting" .
Hello,I'm MissJames and I'm a Right Fighter .:iamashamed:

 

[tlcya]

I have logged out before and just read through threads (not just this case) . The debates I engage in just seem so petty and silly when I disengage , I shake my head at myself. When there's a void to fill ,as we have in this case,it's even worse.It doesn't matter what position we take ,it starts to sound like a bad marriage . We pounce on each others thoughts and point out why the other is wrong .
Dr. Phil calls it "right fighting" .
Hello,I'm MissJames and I'm a Right Fighter .:iamashamed:

Hello, my name is Tlcox, and I am a right fighter. :iamashamed: and its why I don't post much on Lisa's forum. I recognized pretty early in on this one that I was not going to be good at controlling that urge within me to have the last word, to be right.

 

[Jacie Estes]

BBM
As did little Caylee Anthony. A picture doesn't always tell the truth and what happens behind closed doors we will sometimes never know.
From where I sit whomever can deem her a great mom on the whole, but I disagree from what I know.
A great mom doesn't ever put herself before her children.
I would love to know if when Jeremy was home if they both ever got drunk while in charge of their children.

MOO

Lisa Irwin is NOT Caylee Anthony.

 

[hambirg]

I've fostered several shaken babies ,although they were shaken all shaken between 6-8 weeks old. Torn retinas ,cerebral palsey ,brain damage that impairs cognitive development ,are what the ones who live are left with.

Every one of them was returned to the offending parent (mothers) .If they die the parent is arrested.If they live the parent gets them back :banghead:

Thank you for fostering these kids! I worked for years with severely disabled high school age kids. . .some of them were shaken babies.

My point is, we've all been there. . ..sleep deprived, high expectations about something that the baby is now interrupting, and the ensuing frustration. I just wish that people would remember that NO BABY HAS EVER DIED FROM CRYING!!!!. Put the baby some place safe and walk away!

I do feel for this Dad. He did call 911. I think he feels immense remorse. . but that is the lesson. It only takes but a few moments to fatally injure an infant. There doesn't have to be some sinister motive. It is as simple as a loving parent losing their temper.

MOO

 

[hambirg]

Lisa Irwin is NOT Caylee Anthony.

But she is missing just the same.

And that is the tragedy. We have to figure out why and how these infants disappear. I've said before, I would feel different about this case, if BL was older. I don't see any sexual motivation here. So what happened to her? Where is she now? Those are the questions and we are all entitled to our opinions.

Just out of curiosity. .. how did you feel about the Caylee Anthony case as it was unfolding? Did you really think that Zanny the Nanny took her? What were your thoughts about where she was?

 

[Jacie Estes]

But she is missing just the same.

And that is the tragedy. We have to figure out why and how these infants disappear. I've said before, I would feel different about this case, if BL was older. I don't see any sexual motivation here. So what happened to her? Where is she now? Those are the questions and we are all entitled to our opinions.

Just out of curiosity. .. how did you feel about the Caylee Anthony case as it was unfolding? Did you really think that Zanny the Nanny took her? What were your thoughts about where she was?

It is a dis-service to Lisa to equate her case with Caylee's, the obvious conclusion being that mama did it. That is an illogical conclusion in this case. I believe that jersey is the integral part of Lisa being missing. As for a sexual aspect, there is a recent thread on this site about a week old baby being raped and subsequently dying. I think that the depravity of some people is immeasurable.

I didn't follow the Anthony case. I was too busy with university and grad school to have the time to do so. It was quite obvious in the beginning that casey was a whack job, just as i believe josh powell is. I think, at this point, that casey got lucky BUT karma is a b.

 

[hambirg]

I believe that jersey is the integral part of Lisa being missing. As for a sexual aspect, there is a recent thread on this site about a week old baby being raped and subsequently dying. I think that the depravity of some people is immeasurable.

I didn't follow the Anthony case. I was too busy with university and grad school to have the time to do so. It was quite obvious in the beginning that casey was a whack job, just as i believe josh powell is. I think, at this point, that casey got lucky BUT karma is a b.

Ok, thanks. I was just curious.

You do realize that what you said about Casey is the way that some of us feel about DB?

I'm not sure how I feel about Jersey. He might just be a convenient patsy like this Zenidah Gonzales was. He's a thief, but his history doesn't show any pedophilia or even any sexual crimes.

I still don't believe this crime was sexual in nature. I could be wrong and I will eat my socks if that ends up being true. Most of the infant sexual crimes that I have known about didn't involve a stranger, but a bf or a parent.

I still think. . all just MOO. . .that some people have a hard time believing that a seemingly loving parent parent could do fatal harm to their child. I know that is not true. I've seen it way too many times. It makes me sad, but it's a reality.

Thanks again.

ETA-It's not a dis-service to Lisa to try and figure out what happened to her and who is responsible. She deserves justice. If that means scrutinizing then parents, then so be it. Nobody gets a free pass when an infant goes missing. . .and I find it somewhat offensive to imply that those that do look at all scenarios, are somehow out of bounds. This is about Lisa. . .nobody else.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Ok, thanks. I was just curious.

You do realize that what you said about Casey is the way that some of us feel about DB?

I'm not sure how I feel about Jersey. He might just be a convenient patsy like this Zenidah Gonzales was. He's a thief, but his history doesn't show any pedophilia or even any sexual crimes.

I still don't believe this crime was sexual in nature. I could be wrong and I will eat my socks if that ends up being true. Most of the infant sexual crimes that I have known about didn't involve a stranger, but a bf or a parent.

I still think. . all just MOO. . .that some people have a hard time believing that a seemingly loving parent parent could do fatal harm to their child. I know that is not true. I've seen it way too many times. It makes me sad, but it's a reality.

Thanks again.

ETA-It's not a dis-service to Lisa to try and figure out what happened to her and who is responsible. She deserves justice. If that means scrutinizing then parents, then so be it. Nobody gets a free pass when an infant goes missing. . .and I find it somewhat offensive to imply that those that do look at all scenarios, are somehow out of bounds. This is about Lisa. . .nobody else.

By focusing on DB and targeting her with vitriolic comments [and I'm not speaking of you here], the dis-service is that you lose the objectivity of looking at others. This 'rush to judgement' serves no purpose.

I read InDaMiddle's comments; as an eyes-on commentator here IDM has given a fair and balanced view. I choose to go with that.

As for jersey, he is a low level street with possible 'connections'. IMHO To go from the North Jersey area to KCMO shows me the possibility that he is someone who can do 'jobs' for certain people, a 'button'. Arson isn't just a psycho sexual crime; there are arsonists who do contract work. I think jersey can be squeezed to do something because of a debt owed, such as steal a baby for someone who wants one. He reminds me of Ratso Rizzo.

 

[Sparklin]

The fact remains though that both Deb and Jeremy KNEW he was going to be gone that night! They both knew that 3 children were gonna be in her care for the whole night! The very fact that she "chose" to party THAT particular evening, and Jeremy went along with it, shows neglect and abuse!

Fine the nights they say Jeremy watched the kids, I personally don't know man, y men who would work all day long and then come home and babysit all night too while the wife party's down and blacks out/passes out.

This happening on the very night he was away is just that, he was away, but the drinking seems to be most likely an every day event. IMHO that is one of the things they are hiding, other stuff as well.

They didn't know Jeremy would be so late. The kids were all safe and comfy in their beds. How did Jeremy go along with it when he wasn't even there?

I didn't realize a parent could 'babysit' their own child. Taking care of a house and three children is work too and sometimes more stressful than working out of the house. And it was stated that she didn't drink until the kids were in bed.

Every day? Really? Then I would have to wonder how she has the energy to spend time playing with her kids, making meals, getting them off to school and wow...taking care of a baby too.

I love how some people take what Deb/Jeremy say and believe it or not if it suits their purpose.

eta...sorry about off topic!

 

[highflyer]

They didn't know Jeremy would be so late. The kids were all safe and comfy in their beds. How did Jeremy go along with it when he wasn't even there?

I didn't realize a parent could 'babysit' their own child. Taking care of a house and three children is work too and sometimes more stressful than working out of the house. And it was stated that she didn't drink until the kids were in bed.

Every day? Really? Then I would have to wonder how she has the energy to spend time playing with her kids, making meals, getting them off to school and wow...taking care of a baby too.

I love how some people take what Deb/Jeremy say and believe it or not if it suits their purpose.

eta...sorry about off topic!

With all due respect, the children were hardly all SAFE and comfy in their beds.

 

[Sparklin]

With all due respect, the children were hardly all SAFE and comfy in their beds.

As safe as any of our children are when they are put to bed. What more was there to do? We can't install alarms on our children unfortunately.

 

[hambirg]

By focusing on DB and targeting her with vitriolic comments [and I'm not speaking of you here], the dis-service is that you lose the objectivity of looking at others. This 'rush to judgement' serves no purpose.

I read InDaMiddle's comments; as an eyes-on commentator here IDM has given a fair and balanced view. I choose to go with that.

As for jersey, he is a low level street with possible 'connections'. IMHO To go from the North Jersey area to KCMO shows me the possibility that he is someone who can do 'jobs' for certain people, a 'button'. Arson isn't just a psycho sexual crime; there are arsonists who do contract work. I think jersey can be squeezed to do something because of a debt owed, such as steal a baby for someone who wants one. He reminds me of Ratso Rizzo.

Fair enough.

I don't feel I am being overly focused on DB (or the parents) to the exclusion of others. It just seems like all roads, leads, suspects, come back to her. I would feel a lot better about DB's involvement if I felt she was being completely open and honest. Unfortunately, that's not what I see. I am still open to any possibility that makes logical sense. I want to know the truth. . .whatever that means. . .more than anything else.

My problem with the "LE or others aren't looking elsewhere enough" is that IF DB (or the parents) are responsible, it doesn't matter if a gazillion leads are followed. They will all end in a dead end and we are right back where we started, at DB. That's kind of what I think is happening.

That's just all MOO. But it's how I feel.

 

[highflyer]

As safe as any of our children are when they are put to bed. What more was there to do? We can't install alarms on our children unfortunately.

A blackout drunken caregiver is as safe as any of "our" children are. Who is "our"?

 

[hambirg]

They didn't know Jeremy would be so late. The kids were all safe and comfy in their beds. How did Jeremy go along with it when he wasn't even there?

I didn't realize a parent could 'babysit' their own child. Taking care of a house and three children is work too and sometimes more stressful than working out of the house. And it was stated that she didn't drink until the kids were in bed.

Every day? Really? Then I would have to wonder how she has the energy to spend time playing with her kids, making meals, getting them off to school and wow...taking care of a baby too.

I love how some people take what Deb/Jeremy say and believe it or not if it suits their purpose.

eta...sorry about off topic!

BBM. . we still don't know that and it's still up for discussion when it comes to their cell phones. But I agree, he wasn't there that night.

As to the second. . sometimes that's how these things happen.

ETA- and on THIS night she did start drinking long before the kids were in bed. Was that unusual or is she just a liar? Idk

 

[katydid23]

As safe as any of our children are when they are put to bed. What more was there to do? We can't install alarms on our children unfortunately.

She started drinking her 10 glasses of wine pretty darn early. And the boys were never safely tucked into bed. They were still awake at 10:30 on a school night when she came inside, DRUNK, and did whatever happened next. But she
did not bathe them, do their homework with them, tell them a story and put them to bed at a reasonable hour. She stumbled inside drunk at 10:30, forgot to lock the front door or close the window, forgot to check on her sick baby, and passed out, until she was woken up to find her baby was gone.