EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[bringhomelostangels]

I definitely agree that is seems there wouldn't be a time for SM to bring HE to his home, but you would be surprised how many risky situations go on, including even when someone is asleep in the home, etc. Examples of personal experiences (not me, but I was there unfortunately) a "friend" had her lover come over while her husband was asleep on the couch, and did the deed in the kitchen- an open kitchen, 15 feet from her husband. If he had of waken up, he probably, literally, would have killed them both- he has anger issues. Why did she do this?? I have no idea, but am assuming the risk was why. We already (assume) know that TM & SM were into some possibly kinky stuff. I could see this going on, imho.

 

[NFYIAMY]

I think how the jury perceives all of this depends on the extent to which the state can meet the greater reasonable doubt standard with its cumulative evidence. Or conversely, how well the defense performs in dismantling the state's case and creating doubt in the jury's mind.

I just hope that the Solicitor can up the game and be a bit more polished (SM's attorney certainly was). A whole lot rests on her PRESENTATION and how she presents the case, fights for her position when objections are made, etc. I wish I had been more impressed - but what I saw at the last bond hearing was someone who wasn't prepared for all the possibilities of what could come up or happen in that bond hearing. Sorry - but it's true that a jury may very well favor one side for something a simple as how well they speak! IMHO - SM's attorney seemed extremely more professional, well spoken, organized etc than the state did. I still don't understand why Richardson isn't taking the lead on this case himself? Maybe he will at the trial?

 

[Madeleine74]

That many calls implies she was trying to be obnoxious and keep HE's phone ringing and ringing. It reminds me of when I was a kid and before such time as there were answering machines or VM. Kids would occasionally 'blow up' a friend's phone to be completely obnoxious, due to a fight or bullying.

 

[Dixie E]

Over the top...agreed. But IMO...TM is way over the top.

90 pone calls in a 2 hour period speaks volumes. What was the date of the calls? I don`t remember seeing that.

 

[Madeleine74]

I just hope that the Solicitor can up the game and be a bit more polished (SM's attorney certainly was). A whole lot rests on her PRESENTATION and how she presents the case, fights for her position when objections are made, etc. I wish I had been more impressed - but what I saw at the last bond hearing was someone who wasn't prepared for all the possibilities of what could come up or happen in that bond hearing. Sorry - but it's true that a jury may very well favor one side for something a simple as how well they speak! IMHO - SM's attorney seemed extremely more professional, well spoken, organized etc than the state did. I still don't understand why Richardson isn't taking the lead on this case himself? Maybe he will at the trial?

I just hope the judge will actually allow the solicitor to talk for more than 1 minute before he interrupts and argues with her and then launches into one of his stories. That would go a long way to allowing a cohesive presentation and allowing the state to properly object and advocate for their position. It's amazing how the perception of a lawyer's oral presentation and debate skills can be affected directly by the judge and how much latitude an attorney is given and how long they're allowed to talk.

If the state is dealing with a sexist judge (and yes, they are out there in the world), then I agree it would be important for the state to get a male in the lead or risk the unbalanced and bias of such a judge.

 

[NFYIAMY]

I just hope the judge will actually allow the solicitor to talk for more than 1 minute before he interrupts and argues with her and then launches into one of his stories. That would go a long way to allowing a cohesive presentation and allowing the state to properly object and advocate for their position. It's amazing how the perception of a lawyer's oral presentation and debate skills can be affected directly by the judge and how much latitude an attorney is given and how long they're allowed to talk.

If the state is dealing with a sexist judge (and yes, they are out there in the world), then I agree it would be important for the state to get a male in the lead or risk the unbalanced and bias of such a judge.

We are in a good ol' boy area down here. And, not that I agree, but it's not even 'sexist' for such a thing to be occurring down here - just rather 'the way it is'. I believe the way the state allowed the judge to walk all over her is part of that same mentality playing out. It's kind of part of the culture down here.

 

[Madeleine74]

We are in a good ol' boy area down here. And, not that I agree, but it's not even 'sexist' for such a thing to be occurring down here - just rather 'the way it is'. I believe the way the state allowed the judge to walk all over her is part of that same mentality playing out. It's kind of part of the culture down here.

Just curious: how does one stop a judge from "walking all over them" in a hearing? The judge is king. And judges tend to have significant egos and "I'm the boss so don't argue with ME" mentality.

IMO, the mindset of "that's just the way it is down here" is absolutely an indication there isn't parity due to gender, it's known, and yes, that is sexist, unfortunate, and (again IMO) inexcusable in the justice system.

 

[Motherof5]

We are in a good ol' boy area down here. And, not that I agree, but it's not even 'sexist' for such a thing to be occurring down here - just rather 'the way it is'. I believe the way the state allowed the judge to walk all over her is part of that same mentality playing out. It's kind of part of the culture down here.

If that is the case and it sure seems to be...Richardson is aware of it and we can only hope that he takes over.


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[EmmaRose]

Tammy, Sidney and children drove across country during those forty seven days so she couldn't act on her rage then. What is interesting is that five days after they returned from California, Heather disappeared.

 

[magnolia]

...And if TM was going to work WITH him suddenly.....how many of those notes did TM find as opposed to SM finding them? Just one more thing that could've kept TM miserable and angry. What those notes may have said could add fuel to that fire, no?

Also want to comment on the text messages. I do think we may very well find out that the last text "dad no longer has a phone" was sent from someone other than TM or SM. Gotta wonder what they really know/don't know.

I totally agree those notes could have added a whole lot of fuel to the fire. That is also true of phone calls from other phones. Notes and phone calls could also put Sidney in a very uncomfortable position. He possibly had a woman that wouldn't let go and a wife that was making his life miserable because of it. That type of situation, I am sure, causes a lot of stress.

With other people having access to phones, we can never be absolutely sure who is behind a text message. Same with social media. I think the Judge even touched on this.

 

[OkieGranny]

Re: 47 days

The Moorers were gone on their "way out West" tour from November 19 to December 11. So the 47 days is really only 25 days.

But then there's Delta Dawn's post about the weirdness of their return trip. Hmm...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...al-media-discussion-1&p=10299568#post10299568

I do remember seeing a few pics from Disneyland on FB but they were not like her usual 'document everything' trips and were very generic. She also had said she was staying at the DisneyLand Resort Hotel that trip but another mutual friend that was there the exact same time tried to send the kids a treat to their room and was told they were not registered. Those were the beginnings of the bells going off for us, little did we know it would get much worse.

I also felt that her time to return home from that trip was crazy short. One hour she's posting that they are in Texas (and some people were asking why she didn't make it to see them like she promised where she apologized and said she was in a hurry to get home) and then a few hours later she's home in MB? I remember thinking...wow...how did they get home so fast?!

ETA: EmmaRose, you beat me to it while I was digging up that link, lol.

 

[bestill]

Re: 47 days

The Moorers were gone on their "way out West" tour from November 19 to December 11. So the 47 days is really only 25 days.

But then there's Delta Dawn's post about the weirdness of their return trip. Hmm...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...al-media-discussion-1&p=10299568#post10299568



ETA: EmmaRose, you beat me to it while I was digging up that link, lol.

I'm thinking the tour of the wild west was to make Heather jealous, like the family and loving couple were having the time of their lives and all the posts were for Heather's benefit. I'll be surprised to learn that they really were on a trip.

 

[NFYIAMY]

Just curious: how does one stop a judge from "walking all over them" in a hearing? The judge is king. And judges tend to have significant egos and "I'm the boss so don't argue with ME" mentality.

IMO, the mindset of "that's just the way it is down here" is absolutely an indication there isn't parity due to gender, it's known, and yes, that is sexist, unfortunate, and (again IMO) inexcusable in the justice system.

To reply to your first comment - I don't think they can. I do think that an old school judge may feel more at ease to step over a woman solicitor speaking then to speak over a male defense attorney (does that make sense?) Maybe I don't know how to explain it right. Maybe the judge has just reviewed the case and being a former defense attorney (I believe that's the case) he has placed his favor to lean towards the defendants. Maybe he see this as high profile and was doing his thing - like we've seen other judges do in high profile or televised courtrooms?

I don't agree with it - just see it around these here parts.....a lot. It's beyond unfortunate....and really wrong at the end of the day.

 

[SStarr33]

I think if he took her to his home her friends will know, Heather seemed to have been free in sharing with them what was going on with SM. So I'm pretty sure she would have talked about his home, if nothing but to describe it. I honestly don't think he would be that bold, it appears to be rather communal where they live and TM home schooled the kids, it would be hard to find a way to take her there when no one was around. All my opinion.

Did Tammy go on a Disney trip by herself for training purposes? Seems like Delta Dawn said something about it.

 

[OkieGranny]

Did Tammy go on a Disney trip by herself for training purposes? Seems like Delta Dawn said something about it.

She took her family with her but wasn't supposed to. Dang, now I have to go dig out that link...

 

[magnolia]

Would someone testifying that TM did beat up Heather help get you to guilty?

Nope, that and the text messages alone would not help me get to guilty. We are trying to jump from assault to murder here. It would be a whole different matter if Tammy was on trial for assault.

 

[OkieGranny]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...al-media-discussion-1&p=10299429#post10299429

Her March 17, 2013 trip was actually training. Her family should not have been there but she broke the rules and had them along.

 

[LanieCoz]

This was probably discussed somewhere before, but I have yet to come across it... I read somewhere that The M's had several security cameras on their property - if they were to re-record (if that's possible) over the time period that Heather went missing, would sending the video to some sort of specialists/investigator be able to prove that there was a period of time recorded over?

 

[magnolia]

Curious about these notes, do you think they have some of them?

I don't understand why either one would keep notes, but, I guess it is possible.

 

[EmmaRose]

Re: 47 days

The Moorers were gone on their "way out West" tour from November 19 to December 11. So the 47 days is really only 25 days.



But then there's Delta Dawn's post about the weirdness of their return trip. Hmm...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...al-media-discussion-1&p=10299568#post10299568



ETA: EmmaRose, you beat me to it while I was digging up that link, lol.

OkieGranny, so glad you added your post because you added specifics that I could not find--which you always are so good about finding links in record time!