Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

[Zuri]

Nothing is impossible. God will make the finale call. God bless this family!

Unfortunately Tulessa, I think HE already has.

 

[shana]

Judge orders Oakland hospital to keep Jahi McMath on ventilator

An Alameda County judge ordered Children's Hospital Oakland on Friday to keep a 13-year-old Oakland girl who the hospital declared dead on a ventilator until an independent neurologist can examine her.

{snip}

The judge asked attorneys for the family and the hospital to return to court Monday with the name of a doctor from UCSF...

{snip}

The family was also told that the hospital would no longer withhold records detailing Jahi's care at the hospital.

 

[Tulessa]

Unfortunately Tulessa, I think HE already has.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...teen-declared-brain-dead-by-four-doctors.html

Steven was rushed to hospital and surgeons performed a craniotomy to help alleviate any swelling on his brain.
But despite the operation being successful, brain scans failed to detect any electrical pulses and he was declared brain dead.

 

[txsvicki]

Is my understanding of brain death correct? The brainstem responsible to telling the body to breathe has quit working, but the heart will continue until it gets no oxygen?

 

[Zuri]

Judge orders Oakland hospital to keep Jahi McMath on ventilator

An Alameda County judge ordered Children's Hospital Oakland on Friday to keep a 13-year-old Oakland girl who the hospital declared dead on a ventilator until an independent neurologist can examine her.

{snip}

The judge asked attorneys for the family and the hospital to return to court Monday with the name of a doctor from UCSF...

{snip}

The family was also told that the hospital would no longer withhold records detailing Jahi's care at the hospital.

I think this is great. I worked with several neurosurgeons from UCSF a long time ago and they were stellar. I hope the family gets the answers they are seeking. God speed.

 

[al66pine]

Tulessa
Also from the telegraph.co.uk article you linked.

"In a statement, University Hospitals Coventry and Warwickshire NHS Trust said: "The injury to Steven's brain was extremely critical and several CT scans of the head showed almost irreversible damage.
"It is extremely rare that a patient with having suffered such extensive trauma to the brain should survive.
"However, critical care and other specialist teams continued to support his systems through his critical period and we were delighted to see Steven recover and make progress against all the odds." BBM UBM

The hosp's stmt does not say anything about the youth being declared 'brain dead.'
The headline about 4 doctors saying he was brain dead seems to have come from the tabloid, known to use dramatic license, esp in headlines. Consider the source.

And another part of the article stated that a doctor detected faint brain waves, so again, not brain dead.

JM2cts and I may be wrong.:seeya:

 

[Tulessa]

Tulessa
Also from the telegraph.co.uk article you linked.

"In a statement, University Hospitals Coventry and Warwickshire NHS Trust said: "The injury to Steven's brain was extremely critical and several CT scans of the head showed almost irreversible damage.
"It is extremely rare that a patient with having suffered such extensive trauma to the brain should survive.
"However, critical care and other specialist teams continued to support his systems through his critical period and we were delighted to see Steven recover and make progress against all the odds." BBM UBM

The hosp's stmt does not say anything about the youth being declared 'brain dead.'
The headline about 4 doctors saying he was brain dead seems to have come from the tabloid, known to use dramatic license, esp in headlines. Consider the source.

And another part of the article stated that a doctor detected faint brain waves, so again, not brain dead.

JM2cts and I may be wrong.:seeya:

You're probably not lol.

 

[SophieRose]

Judge orders Oakland hospital to keep Jahi McMath on ventilator

An Alameda County judge ordered Children's Hospital Oakland on Friday to keep a 13-year-old Oakland girl who the hospital declared dead on a ventilator until an independent neurologist can examine her.

{snip}

The judge asked attorneys for the family and the hospital to return to court Monday with the name of a doctor from UCSF...

{snip}

The family was also told that the hospital would no longer withhold records detailing Jahi's care at the hospital.

So what happens if/when this neurologist also declares her brain dead? What's the next step then? In another article prior to the hearing, media reported the family was asking the judge to keep her alive at least until January.

So the hospital is giving the family the records. Will the family allow the hospital to speak to the media with the hospital's account?

 

[forthelost]

There are a bunch of tests of neurological function they give to see if a patient is dead (brain dead is dead dead, it's only used to differentiate from the heart stopping). Flunk all of them and you're dead. Flunk all but one and you're in a vegetative state (which doesn't become persistent until it continues for a year or more).

I feel sorry for the family for their loss, but she is dead. She won't recover. It is impossible. If she was vegetative, there'd be an infinitesimal chance, but not with no brain activity whatsoever.

 

[QueenD]

Did I hear tonight the family is asking for a feeding tube also?

Want that be another issue if the court does rule yes on the feeding tube? Want it take a court order to have it removed?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

So what happens if/when this neurologist also declares her brain dead? What's the next step then? In another article prior to the hearing, media reported the family was asking the judge to keep her alive at least until January.

So the hospital is giving the family the records. Will the family allow the hospital to speak to the media with the hospital's account?

I think the judge is being sympathetic towards the family. This will also most likely delay things until after Christmas. I can't see the judge allowing this to continue on after the second opinion.

 

[Minette]

On my phone so I will be brief: I did not accuse the hospital of being insensitive. I said I could not believe they would be so insensitive.

 

[LyndyLoo]

In Texas, there is a state law that says if there are no funds to pay for it, a person who is brain dead or terminally ill can be removed from life support at the hospital's discretion. (Yes, it was put into law by then Governor George W Bush) I don't know if CA has a similar law, but they may run into this. If the insurance company refuses to pay any longer, then the family would be responsible for payment.

I am not saying I agree with the law, just saying that they may run into this. I know they aren't thinking about costs right now, but they will eventually have to face it. If there is no chance she will recover, it is really expensive and futile to keep her alive.

Yepper..Is there Insurance to cover?? Doubt it..BUT then again Did the Surgeons or Hospital give any explanations why a siimple T&A would render a kid brain Dead???..
So far havent heard explanations for what cuased this status????

BBM
Minette,
Respectfully, pls identify the 'insensitve' language in the hosp's following statement, in MSM story I posted earlier tdy http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24761285/oakland-family-brain-dead-13-year-old-girl.

Its my understanding Nobody from Hospital will speak to affeted folks for whatever happens..WHY?? Cause they will be held accountable...Never mind the patient was under total control for surgery..LOL.....I hope these folks can get answers!!!!

Following article is hospital's statement (apparently in full).
"Our hearts go out to the family and friends of Jahi McMath. This is a tragic situation.
We want the public to know that the family has not permitted us to discuss the medical situation. We are unable -- without the family's permission -- to talk about the medical procedure, background or any of the details that are a part of this tragedy. Details that would provide transparency, openness and provide answers to the public about this situation.
We implore the family to allow the hospital to openly discuss what has occurred and to give us the necessary legal permission -- which it has been withholding -- that would bring clarity, and we believe, some measure of closure and deeper understanding of this medical case.
Many of the statements made by the family and its attorney must be taken in the context that they will not allow CHO to discuss the case and provide the information necessary for there to be a fuller understanding."
David Durand, M.D.
Chief of Pediatrics
Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland"

Minette,
The only 'insensitive' language I seen/read/heard is what the family said the hosp/reps said.

I was not at any meeting of family and hosp & health care reps,
to hear for myself what hosp reps said (other than stmt I quoted above).

I doubt if anyone here on W/S was there to hear it personally.

JM2cts and I could be wrong.:seeya:

<modsnip> Victim (patient) doesnt matter...COVER your A$$$..is the bottom line ...Im still trying to figure how Insurance Company's influence is....

Judge orders Oakland hospital to keep Jahi McMath on ventilator

An Alameda County judge ordered Children's Hospital Oakland on Friday to keep a 13-year-old Oakland girl who the hospital declared dead on a ventilator until an independent neurologist can examine her.

{snip}

The judge asked attorneys for the family and the hospital to return to court Monday with the name of a doctor from UCSF...

{snip}

The family was also told that the hospital would no longer withhold records detailing Jahi's care at the hospital.

No longer withhold..LOL...They only release because of a COURT ORDER!!!

Did I hear tonight the family is asking for a feeding tube also?

Want that be another issue if the court does rule yes on the feeding tube? Want it take a court order to have it removed?

Feeding Tube??? If she is considered "Brain Dead" I have to wonder if OFF Ventilations would be even be possible..COurse she's just a Kid..depending on what damages that caused this..BUT I still question Brain Dead applications???

Im sort of questining alot of things...What assessments has she had since her surgery?? What caused her "Brain Death"??? Just too many questions..and sorry cost factors arent ringing my bells....Im thinking those who are on THAT HOOK are suggesting that..LOL

 

[momrids6]

Post-operative bleeding

A relatively common complication of tonsillectomy is bleeding at the site where the tonsils were removed. This can occur in the first 24 hours after surgery or up to 10 days after surgery.
It is estimated that around 1 in 100 children and 1 in 30 adults will experience post-operative bleeding.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Tonsillitis/Pages/Treatment.aspx

The hospital's court filing described Jahi's operation as a "complicated surgical procedure" that included an adenotonsillectomy, a separate procedure to remove throat tissue and a third procedure to remove excess nose tissue. But it did not outline exactly what happened afterward, saying only that she "suffered serious complications resulting in a tragic outcome - her death."

BBM

 

[shana]

Quote:
Originally Posted by shana

{snip}

The family was also told that the hospital would no longer withhold records detailing Jahi's care at the hospital.

/end Post paste

Reply said:

No longer withhold..LOL...They only release because of a COURT ORDER!!!

/end Reply paste

Please be advised that the content of the article which I had posted when it was fresh has since changed. It now says:

The hospital, which had been withholding Jahi's medical records from the family, informed the family Friday that it would turn over those documents.

imo, the earlier article before revised suggested that the hospital might release full information to the public about Jahi's condition both before and after surgery. Personally, I wish it had the opportunity and the court's permission/blessing to do so.

 

[momrids6]

An official from the Oakland coroner's office told CNN that Jahi's death was reported to the office Thursday.
"Once a death is reported to us, we have a duty and responsibility to immediately proceed to where the body lies, examine the body, make identification, make inquiry into the circumstances, manner, and means of death, and, as circumstances warrant, either order its removal for further investigation or disposition, or release the body to the next of kin," the official said, quoting California Government Code Section 27491.
< snip>

According to the coroner official, "in this case, this office has been very gracious. Technically, we can go where the body lies and we can begin our investigation as to the causes of death. We have been gracious and we have allowed the parents and the hospital to maintain the child on life support."
Krigel, the hospital spokeswoman, said in an e-mail that the hospital does "not have a policy re: terminating life support. We work with the family to determine when that will happen. There are instances when the coroner may request termination, but we always work with the family to respect their wishes."
The official at the coroner's office said the main concern is giving the family the answers they seek, and in order to do that, time is of the essence.
<snip>

"In my opinion, that is the bigger issue we are grappling with here: the balance between giving the parents time to grieve and determining the causes of the child's death before the body heals."
"This child is deceased. From a medical standpoint, this child will never recover. There is a careful balance between letting the parties investigate and allowing the parents to grieve," the official said. "We know the parents want answers, and it is our office that will provide answers if they are available to us. The longer we wait, the less susceptible we are to getting the evidence we need to render a cause of death. Time is not on our side, from a medical investigation standpoint."

Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...s-it-wants-to-keep-life-support#ixzz2o5DdI353

 

[txsvicki]

Maybe it's routine in these cases, but imo, it's disturbing that a death has been reported while the heart is still beating, even if it is due to artificial respiration. You'd think death would be pronunced after it is removed and all functions stop, or while on life support and it stops due to infection or kidney failure.

 

[Kaliste]

This is just so heartbreaking. From a rational standpoint, I get it. The child is dead, stop the machines and donate what tissue and organs you can. But, as a mother, I think it would take an entire army to pull me away from that room if it were my daughter. I'm sure in the back of the parents mind they KNOW Jahi isn't going to come back but feeling warm hands and seeing a chest move (due to a ventilator) would put emotion before logic in any parent.

This one has really touched me. I'm so torn up about this and wish her parents strength.

 

[momrids6]

This is just so heartbreaking. From a rational standpoint, I get it. The child is dead, stop the machines and donate what tissue and organs you can. But, as a mother, I think it would take an entire army to pull me away from that room if it were my daughter. I'm sure in the back of the parents mind they KNOW Jahi isn't going to come back but feeling warm hands and seeing a chest move (due to a ventilator) would put emotion before logic in any parent.

This one has really touched me. I'm so torn up about this and wish her parents strength.

I understand the denial. I do not understand the lawyer, the refusal of allowing the hospital to speak, and the media circus. I would be too torn up to be doing interviews and thinking of lawsuits.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...teen-declared-brain-dead-by-four-doctors.html

Steven was rushed to hospital and surgeons performed a craniotomy to help alleviate any swelling on his brain.
But despite the operation being successful, brain scans failed to detect any electrical pulses and he was declared brain dead.

Steven Thorpe, then 17, suffered horrific injuries in a multiple car crash, leaving him in a medically-induced coma and another man dead.
Doctors told his family he would never recover and asked them to consider donating his organs before his life-support machine was turned off.
Instead, Steven’s father enlisted the help of private GP Julia Piper to check his son again as doctors at University Hospital in Coventry, West Midlands, agreed to let a neurologist re-examine him.
Remarkably, he detected faint brain waves indicating Steven had a slim chance of recovery and medics decided to attempt to bring him out of his coma.

He was in a medically induced coma, meaning that he was sedated unconscious after the accident. You can't properly even assess brain death under such conditions.