Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

[K_Z]

This whole situation is mind boggling. As a result of this case, I expect to see even more cases like these of families in denial.

The only treatment that is appropriate in this situation is some mental health treatment for the family so that they can come to terms with the fact that Jahi is gone. She is not coming back ever. Their denial is frankly delusional. There is NO treatment available to help Jahi. She will remain dead and her family must accept that.

I do not mean to be harsh about them and I understand that they have been dealt a tragic hand. But thousands and thousands of children/people die everyday in equally tragic situations. Any death of a child is tragic. But it happens and life must go on for their loved ones.

Harsh as it may sound, if the hospital rep did tell the family that Jahi is "dead, dead, dead" then we can see why they would have taken such an adamant and brusque was of trying to get it through their heads that she is not coming back. I imagine that the family met the hospital's every word with "what if" and "but" and finally someone had to say that Jahi is "dead, dead, dead".

It was probably said like this " Brain-wise, medically and legally, Jahi is dead, dead, dead". There is no criteria to consider her as living. No miracle, judge, facility or amount of time can change that. Callous as it sounds, it is not a lie and the hospital was not going to lie and string the family along with false hopes.

BBM.

Folie Ã* deux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is looking more and more to me like a case of voluntary familial delusion, versus a case of "civil rights" or "patient rights".

This family's stubborn denial to understand and accept truth and reality is heartbreaking, as well as frustrating. I am personally very frustrated with their religious leaders, and those who should be removed enough from the intense grief to provide some clarity. This course of action does not (IMO) honor or respect the person that was Jahi. Her body has become, IMO, an exploited commodity to further the family's grief and anger at the medical establishment for her death following elective surgery. Voluntary delusion because I believe they intellectually know she is gone; they resist to make a point with her body, IMO.

They have charted their course, and dug in their heels. They appear to be thoroughly committed to their collective voluntary family delusions about her current condition, prognosis, and future.

It is exceptionally sad that their own religious leaders are taking their lead from the family, and furthering this "folie." IMO.

 

[K_Z]

Family finds facility to take 'brain-dead' girl

The new facility is in Southern California, said the family's lawyer, Christopher Dolan, but he wouldn't provide its name.

"We're afraid they'll be inundated with press" and decide to back out as well, he said.

Is he implying this as a reason that the facility in the Bay Area declined? smh

~jmo~

Not just implying-- Omari Sealy came right out and said the local facility backed out once the Oakland hospital refused to provide the trach and PEG.

 

[shana]

Not just implying-- Omari Sealy came right out and said the local facility backed out once the Oakland hospital refused to provide the trach and PEG.

Yes, thank you, and rightly so on the back-out. But was the name of that facility ever released such that it might have been "inundated with press" as the lawyer is suggesting?

~jmo~

P.S. Many thanks for all of your enlightening information throughout this case!

 

[Trino]

Again the family is delusional. The media will find out the name of the facility.

 

[momrids6]

Um- not quite S Cal- out of state and insurance is not covering:

http://www.gofundme.com/Jahi-Mcmath

 

[momrids6]

Here is a link to the papers Childrens submitted to the Court on December 20, explaining all they have done for the family: http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/childrens-hospital.pdf

 

[otto]

Family finds facility to take 'brain-dead' girl

The new facility is in Southern California, said the family's lawyer, Christopher Dolan, but he wouldn't provide its name.

"We're afraid they'll be inundated with press" and decide to back out as well, he said.

Is he implying this as a reason that the facility in the Bay Area declined? smh

~jmo~

He got the media all worked up, and now that they're worked up, he says that he can't release information about the facility because the worked up media will create a media frenzy at the place that accepts dead people as patients.

No kidding. Still, I think that people have a right to know where they can ship dead relatives and have insurance cover the cost of artificial breathing, feeding, and all other functions that relate to life. Even worms can manage without machines ... except when it rains too much, but that's a story for another time.

 

[K_Z]

Um- not quite S Cal- out of state and insurance is not covering:
http://www.gofundme.com/Jahi-Mcmath

My FIL was recently helicopter airlifted from an MVA site less than 40 miles from a level one trauma center at a cost of $25,000.

I agree that whatever insurance they have will not cover transport costs to move Jahi's body to a nursing facility. They are hoping to crowd-source funds.

 

[K_Z]

Yes, thank you, and rightly so on the back-out. But was the name of that facility ever released such that it might have been "inundated with press" as the lawyer is suggesting?

~jmo~

P.S. Many thanks for all of your enlightening information throughout this case!

I haven't seen a single article naming the "first" facility, so I agree with you.

That facility backing out was due to the CHO not placing trach and PEG tubes. Had nothing to do with adverse publicity-- though "anticipatory" adverse publicity is to be expected.

 

[momrids6]

I agree that whatever insurance they have will not cover transport costs to move Jahi's body to a nursing facility. They are hoping to crowd-source funds.

RSBM:

:tos: :shutup:

 

[shana]

Just a few questions/curiosities:

1. Has there been any mention of Jahi's bio father?
2. Has Jahi's primary care physician weighed-in at all on the case since surgery?
3. Did Mrs Winkfield cite her child's still-beating heart at the start of this case, or only lately?

I've read a lot and tried to keep-up, but still may have missed much. TIA for any help with the above.

 

[otto]

BBM.

Folie Ã* deux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is looking more and more to me like a case of voluntary familial delusion, versus a case of "civil rights" or "patient rights".

This family's stubborn denial to understand and accept truth and reality is heartbreaking, as well as frustrating. I am personally very frustrated with their religious leaders, and those who should be removed enough from the intense grief to provide some clarity. This course of action does not (IMO) honor or respect the person that was Jahi. Her body has become, IMO, an exploited commodity to further the family's grief and anger at the medical establishment for her death following elective surgery. Voluntary delusion because I believe they intellectually know she is gone; they resist to make a point with her body, IMO.

They have charted their course, and dug in their heels. They appear to be thoroughly committed to their collective voluntary family delusions about her current condition, prognosis, and future.

It is exceptionally sad that their own religious leaders are taking their lead from the family, and furthering this "folie." IMO.

I agreed with every word until I read "... an exploited commodity to further the family's grief and anger at the medical establishment". I'm not convinced that the underlined portion is what is behind this. I'm sure that the mother's co-workers have an opinion as well. What sort of remarks could there be ... "what! she died from a tonsillectomy?!! ... sue the b******* for millions!!!". Maybe not, but it's possible that this is more about potential wrongful death during what we know was not a routine surgery, and how to milk it for all it's worth.

The ball started rolling because, allegedly, a child died during a routine tonsillectomy, but we now know that this was only one of the surgeries; nothing routine. Alternatively, sure, the family might think that all the doctors are wrong because a lawyer and religious leader think they know better, but this is not a religious matter, and a lawyer is only there for money - he either has been paid, or he expects to be paid. Dr. Bryne sounds like someone that does not understand evolution. That's a funny doctor ... how does Dr Bryne think that people came to be here ... from eating an apple?

There is an obvious right to life after someone is born, but at a certain point, when the brain can no longer sustain life (breath, be hungry, eat, recognize, react, and etc.), that person is no longer alive. People that die of old age simply take one long last breath, and then it stops. The brain has stopped telling the heart to pump and the lungs to take another breath of air.

 

[otto]

Not just implying-- Omari Sealy came right out and said the local facility backed out once the Oakland hospital refused to provide the trach and PEG.

They must have a policy about not accepting dead people at their facility.

 

[Trino]

http://www.gofundme.com/Jahi-Mcmath

I am now a firm believer that if you create any fund-raising website, people will come.

 

[otto]

Yes, thank you, and rightly so on the back-out. But was the name of that facility ever released such that it might have been "inundated with press" as the lawyer is suggesting?

~jmo~

P.S. Many thanks for all of your enlightening information throughout this case!

The hospital is requesting the information. There is no reason that the information should be made public until after she has been transferred. The lawyer sounds very inexperienced in litigation ... just not seeing the straight forward route. The hospital wants to know where she will go and how she will get there. They most likely need that for their records and they clearly want it up front. As the hospital lawyer said, that information should be readily available. I see it as calling bluff. The family claims it's all in place, then there are conditions (surgery on a person declared dead by medicine and law), then it turns out they don't really have a place, and most likely transportation was assumed to be the responsibility of the hospital.

Ditto on the appreciation!

 

[Karmady]

The hospital is requesting the information. There is no reason that the information should be made public until after she has been transferred. The lawyer sounds very inexperienced in litigation ... just not seeing the straight forward route. The hospital wants to know where she will go and how she will get there. They most likely need that for their records and they clearly want it up front. As the hospital lawyer said, that information should be readily available. I see it as calling bluff. The family claims it's all in place, then there are conditions (surgery on a person declared dead by medicine and law), then it turns out they don't really have a place, and most likely transportation was assumed to be the responsibility of the hospital.

Ditto on the appreciation!

The family's lawyer? If that's who you're referring to, he's the opposite of inexperienced in litigation, imo. He knows perfectly well that there's no one currently willing to take her. And so does the hospital's lawyer -- hence the wording of the letter. He's buying time to get an appeal on file and try to make the hospital look as bad as possible in the meanwhile.

jmo

 

[Trino]

See previous post...

After this case, I'm now a firm believer that there will always be a business, as well as a professional person, that will do anything for $$. If insurance pays, that's the bottom line.

 

[Trino]

I wonder what the cost will be to move Jahi. Of course, if contributors to the website pay, no problem, right?

 

[SophieRose]

Just a few questions/curiosities:

1. Has there been any mention of Jahi's bio father?
2. Has Jahi's primary care physician weighed-in at all on the case since surgery?
3. Did Mrs Winkfield cite her child's still-beating heart at the start of this case, or only lately?

I've read a lot and tried to keep-up, but still may have missed much. TIA for any help with the above.

One of the documents filed in the case mentioned that the biological father was in on one of the meetings.

I think she married the stepfather in 2011.

 

[momrids6]

I wonder what the cost will be to move Jahi. Of course, if contributors to the website pay, no problem, right?

In fulfillment of the hospital’s request, Dolan said he had held a three-way conference call Friday with Straus and the director of the nursing home.

Dolan also told the Associated Press on Friday that he had already obtained signed consent from the coroner for Jahi’s transfer.

The Alameda County Coroner’s Bureau said it had no comment.

Jahi’s uncle, Omari Sealey, said earlier on Friday the family was in talks with three nursing homes—two in Los Angeles and one in New York—that might be willing to take her

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...-out-wont-accept-brain-dead-teen-jahi-mcmath/