Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #1

[BeginnersLuck]

JMO but I'd be interested in seeing what facility would take a body with a death certificate. Again my opinion, but I can't see insurance paying anything in
a case where a death certificate exists.

I'm baffled by the family/attorneys statement that insurance is covering the care. I would think that before any facility would be willing to take her there would have to be prior authorization from the insurance company. I used to work in insurance years ago, so I'm naturally curious about the criteria in cases like this.

The degree of care that she will need IMO, is more than what the average nursing home could provide. Will that facility be administering all the meds/treatment that "Dr Byrne" or others like him, feel are necessary for her body to have to prolong the vital organs from failure? Will the insurance consider these treatments medically necessary? I don't see it.

Medical helicopters are used for transport in life or death situations. I just see this being one obstacle after another and no way for a happy ending.

 

[Linda7NJ]

So enormous resources should be spend on keeping brain dead people attached to machines because family believes in miracles? Why does she need to be attached to a ventillator in order for this miracle to happen? Turn off the machine and see if this miracle takes place.

Who should get to decide?

Personally, I would never allow a child to eat until obesity. The original surgery was unnecessary IMO. But I don't get to decide. It's not up to me. The insurance company was willing to pay for this surgery because it was easier and statistically cheaper than treating the underlying problem. The surgeon knew the surgery wouldn't be necessary if the child lost weight, he still did it. seems to me everyone was looking for a quick fix or to make money.
This was a 13 yr old child. Surely, there was a better way.... Yet no one was willing...to say "stop eating so much", "stop feeding her so much"! Did anyone counsel this family, did the insurance company or doctor suggest a nutritionist? what was done to solve the real problem previously????



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[Linda7NJ]

So enormous resources should be spend on keeping brain dead people attached to machines because family believes in miracles? Why does she need to be attached to a ventillator in order for this miracle to happen? Turn off the machine and see if this miracle takes place.

IMO money has no place in truly ethical conversations.


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[jjenny]

I am buffled also. She is considered legally dead. I can't imagine why insurance would pay rather considerable costs to care for someone who is dead, when some people who are very much alive have a hard time getting insurance to approve some prosedures.

 

[jjenny]

IMO money has no place in truly ethical conversations.


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Money makes world go round. How can it not be a consideration?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am buffled also. She is considered legally dead. I can't imagine why insurance would pay rather considerable costs to care for someone who is dead, when some people who are very much alive have a hard time getting insurance to approve some prosedures.

Insurance companies should be in the business of insuring ... Not making medical recommendations and decisions. IMO
When the hands of doctors and ethical committed are tied by insurance carriers EVERYONE looses. That's what is wrong with our system.
It will never change as long as people have the media leading them to people like this family. They are not the problem with the system, I assure you. It's simply a distraction and from reading here... It's perfect. Many are pointing at this family as if they are getting a bigger slice of pie than someone else. Really? Who wants to trade places for the slice they want????




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[Softail]

I'm baffled by the family/attorneys statement that insurance is covering the care. I would think that before any facility would be willing to take her there would have to be prior authorization from the insurance company. I used to work in insurance years ago, so I'm naturally curious about the criteria in cases like this.

The degree of care that she will need IMO, is more than what the average nursing home could provide. Will that facility be administering all the meds/treatment that "Dr Byrne" or others like him, feel are necessary for her body to have to prolong the vital organs from failure? Will the insurance consider these treatments medically necessary? I don't see it.

Medical helicopters are used for transport in life or death situations. I just see this being one obstacle after another and no way for a happy ending.

I am too! :waitasec: As I said a few pages back, its hard enough to get certain things covered for living people. What insurance company is going to pay for "long term" care for a deceased person? :waitasec: I just don't buy it.

I find it sick and disturbing that people (ie: lawyers, supposed nursing homes, etc...) are giving this family false hope. :sigh:

 

[Sonya610]

IMO money has no place in truly ethical conversations.

In the REAL world yes it does have a huge place in ethical conversations.

Other people's money is always "theoretical" but when it is YOUR money and you have the choice between paying for life sustaining procedures when the end result is the same or buying food to feed your loved ones, or paying the mortgage on your house so your loved ones can have shelter, do you think MONEY doesn't play into it?

Yes; money DOES play into it and that is natural. Money, resources, ability to provide, ability to survive, real life etc.... Real life isn't theoretical and it often isn't pretty.

 

[K_Z]

Who should get to decide?

Personally, I would never allow a child to eat until obesity. The original surgery was unnecessary IMO. But I don't get to decide. It's not up to me. The insurance company was willing to pay for this surgery because it was easier and statistically cheaper than treating the underlying problem. The surgeon knew the surgery wouldn't be necessary if the child lost weight, he still did it. seems to me everyone was looking for a quick fix or to make money.
This was a 13 yr old child. Surely, there was a better way.... Yet no one was willing...to say "stop eating so much", "stop feeding her so much"! Did anyone counsel this family, did the insurance company or doctor suggest a nutritionist? what was done to solve the real problem previously????



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In fairness to the family, we have absolutely no way of knowing what was done in the months and years leading up to this surgery to help this child lose weight.

Pediatric obesity is a multifactorial issue, very hard to treat, and not simply about padlocking the cupboards. For all we know, this procedure may have been recommended as a precursor to planned gastric bypass or other weight loss procedures. We simply don't know, and it isn't fair to "fat shame".

Jahi's weight was a considerable problem and complicating factor, and one of the other problems she had was sleep apnea. I think the mother was trying her best to help her daughter with a lot of very frustrating and complex problems related to her weight.

 

[Softail]

Who should get to decide?

Personally, I would never allow a child to eat until obesity. The original surgery was unnecessary IMO. But I don't get to decide. It's not up to me. The insurance company was willing to pay for this surgery because it was easier and statistically cheaper than treating the underlying problem. The surgeon knew the surgery wouldn't be necessary if the child lost weight, he still did it. seems to me everyone was looking for a quick fix or to make money.
This was a 13 yr old child. Surely, there was a better way.... Yet no one was willing...to say "stop eating so much", "stop feeding her so much"! Did anyone counsel this family, did the insurance company or doctor suggest a nutritionist? what was done to solve the real problem previously????

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Did you see this video? The mother STILL wants her fed NOW! :doh:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/26/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/

So, I'd say no. Nobody ever counseled this family about anything, or so it seems. :twocents:

 

[Linda7NJ]

In the REAL world yes it does have a huge place in ethical conversations.

Other people's money is always "theoretical" but when it is YOUR money and you have the choice between paying for life sustaining procedures when the end result is the same or buying food to feed your loved ones, or paying the mortgage on your house so your loved ones can have shelter, do you think MONEY doesn't play into it????

Yes money DOES play into it and that is natural. Money, resources, ability to provide, ability to survive, real life etc....

So are you claiming that insurance companies aren't making enough money? They're barely scraping by?

Would you rather pay for and receive what you could afford?

How about a lifetime time cap and once it's reached, you're done?



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[jjenny]

Insurance companies should be in the business of insuring ... Not making medical recommendations and decisions. IMO
When the hands of doctors and ethical committed are tied by insurance carriers EVERYONE looses. That's what is wrong with our system.
It will never change as long as people have the media leading them to people like this family. They are not the problem with the system, I assure you. It's simply a distraction and from reading here... It's perfect. Many are pointing at this family as if they are getting a bigger slice of pie than someone else. Really? Who wants to trade places for the slice they want????




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Medical insruance is for the living.
Here is someone who is legally dead, yet large funds are supposedly going to be spend on keeping the body attached to machines.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

IMO money has no place in truly ethical conversations.


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If resources were unlimited, that would be true. But where resources are limited, how those resources are allocated certainly must be part of the conversation.

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[BeginnersLuck]

Insurance companies should be in the business of insuring ... Not making medical recommendations and decisions. IMO
When the hands of doctors and ethical committed are tied by insurance carriers EVERYONE looses. That's what is wrong with our system.
It will never change as long as people have the media leading them to people like this family. They are not the problem with the system, I assure you. It's simply a distraction and from reading here... It's perfect. Many are pointing at this family as if they are getting a bigger slice of pie than someone else. Really? Who wants to trade places for the slice they want????




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Insurance companies review claims for a variety of reasons. One of which is to try and prevent tremendous fraud within the system.

Certainly if insurance companies won't pay because something isn't medically necessary, then there should also be those willing to provide these services for free or pay out of pocket to have a procedure performed that isn't necessary for the health of an individual. Cosmetic procedures are one example.

I wasn't aware that insurance companies were ever in the business of paying for the care of legally declared deceased individuals.

 

[Linda7NJ]

In fairness to the family, we have absolutely no way of knowing what was done in the months and years leading up to this surgery to help this child lose weight.

Pediatric obesity is a multifactorial issue, very hard to treat, and not simply about padlocking the cupboards. For all we know, this procedure may have been recommended as a precursor to planned gastric bypass or other weight loss procedures. We simply don't know, and it isn't fair to "fat shame".

Jahi's weight was a considerable problem and complicating factor, and one of the other problems she had was sleep apnea. I think the mother was trying her best to help her daughter with a lot of very frustrating and complex problems related to her weight.

I'm not fat shaming anyone. She was 13 years old. She's dead. And it's a crying shame.

Gastric bypass for a 13 year old child? Thud!



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[Trino]

They already raised over 2k.

How do we know that this is even Jahi's mother? They say she's Facebook verified but that means basically nothing. ANYONE can create a Facebook page.

This is giving me a stress rash...

FB Page: Latasha Nailah Winkfield

However, as you mentioned, anyone can create a FB page/copy/paste the photo. I find it interesting this FB page says nothing about donations nor is there a reference to the donations page.

 

[Sonya610]

How about a lifetime time cap and once it's reached, you're done?

We all have a lifetime cap. We all die. Fairness has very little to do with it.

 

[Karmady]

Or the costs of the lawyers that keep appealing to judges???

Not sure about Cali, but in the states I'm familiar with, attorneys' fees are awarded to the prevailing party only in a contract case -- with some limited exceptions. Here, the lawyer is either working for free or will get his fee from the settlement or jury award. Imo, they're trying to get as many pockets involved as possible. The hospital, the doc, the insurance company any facility that takes her or refuses to, and so on. The more the merrier. jmo

 

[Sha]

Forgive me, please, if I'm being ignorant here, but if she is deceased wouldn't her body be decomposing?

You can recover from a severe stroke but not from brain death. Brain death is irreversible by definition. If someone recovered from brain death, he was not brain dead, he was misdiagnosed.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_24807859/jahi-mcmath-family-trying-raise-money-get-13

The family of Jahi McMath are trying to raise money to help pay for the cost of moving the brain-dead 13-year-old from the Oakland hospital where she has been since Dec. 9.

At some point Friday, Jahi's mother Latasha Nailah Winkfield created the "Jahi McMath Fund" on popular fundraising web site Go Fund Me.

In the explanation of the need for the money on the site Winkfield says "I am raising money for my daughter Jahi McMath so that she can be airlifted to a hospital out of state. Her insurance does not cover it and Children's Hospital is going to remove her off life support if can't get her out of this hospital."

This news of an out-of-state hospital differs from reports earlier Friday when Jahi's family and attorney said that there was a long-term care facility in Southern California that would take her. Early Saturday morning no one could be reached for comment.