Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #8

[Softail]

I hear ya Otto. I hope the same thing.

Today is 48 days since Jahi was declared dead on December 12th.

By the looks of the FB page, there is no end in sight.

:sigh:

 

[Cyberburn]

I don't know if someone has already brought this up (sorry if so) but the Date and Time stamp was removed from this video file. I had looked this up right when the video was posted, and I'm very disappointed that there still has been no date released of when this video was taken.

I decided to go through a full forensic peek at this file today, and I can say that someone used an easy and available feature to remove their personal information as well as other important information (Date and Time, etc.). Once again, I am disappointed.

 

[Donjeta]

http://blog.oup.com/2014/01/jahi-mcmath-medical-ethics-religious-beliefs/#sthash.uJjO6ExT.uxfs

What might have happened if, in caring for Jahi’s family after the surgery-gone-wrong, the focus had been on helping them to be faithful believers? What if, instead of focusing on medical facts, bioethical principles, and legal precedents, we “went with” Jahi’s family’s beliefs — even if we didn’t hold these beliefs ourselves? Perhaps we could have recited with them their own belief that God raises the dead to new life. What if we had shared with them the words of the Apostle Paul? “There are heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one thing, and that of the earthly is another…. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead” (1 Cor. 15:40-42 RSV). Perhaps then they might have been more willing to turn Jahi’s now lifeless body over to God, and not to the mechanical ventilator that the very profession who declared her dead trusted in themselves in the operating room when they hooked her up to it in the first place. More important, the healthcare professionals involved might have realized that they do not have power over life and death.

If healthcare providers, bioethicists, and jurists could have joined with clergy to engage the faith of Jahi’s family and encouraged them to trust God to resurrect her now shattered earthly body into a glorious heavenly one, perhaps a public battle would not have ensued, and perhaps we wouldn’t have felt the need to have called people who came to their aid crazy. Speculation of what might have happened aside, if we do not engage families’ religious beliefs in the profound moments of making decisions about death we run the risk of compounding their tragedy in a very public battle — a battle of our making, not theirs.

Everybody seems so sure they know what was said at CHO in the early days and what wasn't. Wasn't there a hospital chaplain?For all I know there might have been several people quoting scriptures, the only thing we were told was that Durand said Jahi was dead.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I mentioned before, but it's very unlikely that the date stamp was 'accidentally' wrong, not with modern tech.

Obfuscation of facts. Again.

 

[ArianeEmory]

From the blog post Donjeta quoted:

More important, the healthcare professionals involved might have realized that they do not have power over life and death.

Why is it SO important to these people to try to drag down medical professionals like this? Where does that hostility come from?

(When my Mom got breast cancer, her oncologists, surgeons and chemo staff did indeed have power over her life and death. I don't even get what a statement like the one above means.)

 

[Madeleine74]

Realistically, how long could Jahi's body remain on a vent & stay intact before any "deterioration" (term used in media rpts) progresses far enough that she would need to be taken off and buried? Months? A year or more? 3 years or more?

 

[ArianeEmory]

Realistically, how long could Jahi's body remain on a vent & stay intact before any "deterioration" (term used in media rpts) progresses far enough that she would need to be taken off and buried? Months? A year or more? 3 years or more?

We haven't seen much in the way of fact-based information on this question, I *think* because it's not normal to keep someone alive in that state, so there isn't much data. We've only seen a few anecdotes. Hopefully some more medically knowledgeable folks will chime in.

 

[Donjeta]

From the blog post Donjeta quoted:



Why is it SO important to these people to try to drag down medical professionals like this? Where does that hostility come from?

(When my Mom got breast cancer, her oncologists, surgeons and chemo staff did indeed have power over her life and death. I don't even get what a statement like the one above means.)

I think it's more properly the other way around... Not your mom but Jahi's situation. The family said things to the effect that CHO injured Jahi and they owe it to her to fix her. The health care professionals said that there was nothing they could do to save a deceased girl.

JMO but in this situation the health care professionals understand perfectly well that they don't have the power over life and death, and if anyone thinks they have that power it's the people who insist that it's possible to reverse death they keep the dead person on a ventilator and pray a lot.

 

[Melanie]

I am bothered that the family has brought religion into this. Case in point, if they believe that she will awaken with lots of prayers, and God will heal her - why did she have the surgery to begin with. Shouldn't they have prayed the sleep apnea condition away, and God would have healed her from that? They certainly can't have it both ways ---

1. God didn't heal her sleep apnea so they went ahead with surgery
2. Yet, God will NOW heal her injured brain?

It leaves me baffled.

JMHO - not meant to insult anyone who is of religious belief or the power of prayer.

MOO

Mel

 

[Linda7NJ]

Realistically, how long could Jahi's body remain on a vent & stay intact before any "deterioration" (term used in media rpts) progresses far enough that she would need to be taken off and buried? Months? A year or more? 3 years or more?

No one knows. The body is still at risk for all sorts of problems that plague the immobile.


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[Linda7NJ]

I am bothered that the family has brought religion into this. Case in point, if they believe that she will awaken with lots of prayers, and God will heal her - why did she have the surgery to begin with. Shouldn't they have prayed the sleep apnea condition away, and God would have healed her from that? They certainly can't have it both ways ---

1. God didn't heal her sleep apnea so they went ahead with surgery
2. Yet, God will NOW heal her injured brain?

It leaves me baffled.

JMHO - not meant to insult anyone who is of religious belief or the power of prayer.

MOO

Mel

The same reason, even the faithful, look both ways before crossing the street and don't simply leave it up to god.


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[Cyberburn]

I mentioned before, but it's very unlikely that the date stamp was 'accidentally' wrong, not with modern tech.

Obfuscation of facts. Again.

Oh, it's not wrong.

If you are seeing 01/01/1904 and 12:00:00 UST, that's the default. Also, if you are looking at the file which you may have saved to your own system on a Microsoft system, the system will populate the date and time you saved the file if those fields are blank, but the media date/time fields are different than the 'this file was created on this pc' date/time stamp.

I hope that makes sense. And you're right, obfuscation of the facts.

 

[Linda7NJ]

The argument could be made by the steadfast believers that if god wanted her, he would take her by simply stopping her heart.

I'm an atheist, I've met some pretty hard core believers. For some there is no science that overrules god and the power of prayer trumps all if god feels like answering. For some it is gods will that her heart is still beating.




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[Karmady]

Not sure if this was posted before, but the Court filed it's own Order to Show Cause why the Federal Case should not be dismissed on 1/23. Looking for a public link so please let me know if this has already been posted and I just missed it

eta link

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/4:2013cv05993/273213/21/0.pdf

 

[Zuri]

Try this:

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_25001626/video-claims-show-jahi-mcmaths-feet-move?source=rss

Thank you for this link. The others did not work for me. Has it been established that this is from the video used in court or is this new? I read upthread that the date was wiped out. TIA

 

[ca2james]

Not sure if this was posted before, but the Court filed it's own Order to Show Cause why the Federal Case should not be dismissed on 1/23. Looking for a public link so please let me know if this has already been posted and I just missed it

eta link

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/4:2013cv05993/273213/21/0.pdf

Wow, that's interesting. I'm sure the lawyer will push back and won't want the case dismissed but I'm not sure he'll win that argument.

I remember reading discussion here about why the mother would be appointed Jahi's guardian-ad-litem. Now we know why - it seems that this is the only way for the mother to file on Jahi's behalf. This court ruling seems to indicate that the mother isnt the GAL but I thought that had been done. Or does it have to be done in federal court for a federal case?

Rather, the pleadings allege that Jahi is disabled due to her brain injury, and that Defendants are violating the respective Acts through their attempt to remove Jahi from the ventilator. Compl. ¶¶ 60, 65, 76. Thus, the only person alleged to have a disability is Jahi, who is not a party. Though Plaintiff identifies herself in the pleadings as Jahi’s mother and guardian, she has neither requested to be nor been appointed by the Court as Jahi’s guardian ad litem and therefore cannot assert any claims vicariously on Jahi’s behalf. See Fed. R. Civ. P. 17(c)(2) (requiring a court to “appoint a guardian ad litem—or issue another appropriate order—to protect a minor or incompetent person who is unrepresented in an action.”); Prince v. Fremont Police Dept., No. C 13-1366 SBA, 2013 WL 3157925 (N.D. Cal. June 20, 2013) (dismissing § 1983 claims filed by parents based on violations of their children’s constitutional rights because parents were not appointed as guardians at litem).

 

[Cyberburn]

I think it's possible that the date on the camera is set incorrectly.

Just went up-thread to see what others had posted. IMO (Ugh), someone deleted the information. This is how you do it.

1) Save video file from phone/camera/etc. onto PC.
2) Right click on file.
3) Select Properties.
4) Click Details tab.
5) Click 'Remove Properties and Personal Information' hyperlink.
6) Remove Properties window appears.
7) Choose A or B.
(A - Create a copy with all possible properties removed.)
(B - Remove the following properties from this file.)

So, I won't leave you guessing, the someone picked A. They removed everything.

 

[Cyberburn]

Wow, that's interesting. I'm sure the lawyer will push back and won't want the case dismissed but I'm not sure he'll win that argument.

I remember reading discussion here about why the mother would be appointed Jahi's guardian-ad-litem. Now we know why - it seems that this is the only way for the mother to file on Jahi's behalf. This court ruling seems to indicate that the mother isnt the GAL but I thought that had been done. Or does it have to be done in federal court for a federal case?

I'm not lawyer, but I've been in a court case. While my MIL did file for divorce for my DH, and took 'care' of lots of paperwork for him, when the judge found that he was too disabled/brain damaged to make decisions, it was decided he needed a guardian-ad-litem. The judge appointed the guardian-ad-litem, which was not his mom. (And I later found out she was banned from the court room.) The case (divorce) pretty much ended after that. Once that ball starts rolling, and as long as it did, it was impossible to stop. Anyways, she is his legal guardian now, which is what she wanted. I don't know if she filed and won the lawsuit she wanted.

This whole 'Jahi' situation upsets me so much because it hits too close to home. Anyways, I hope it doesn't tear up that family like it did mine. Denial and anger can consume a person and make them completely irrational, and hurt a lot of people.

 

[otto]

I hear ya Otto. I hope the same thing.

Today is 48 days since Jahi was declared dead on December 12th.

By the looks of the FB page, there is no end in sight.

:sigh:

It reminds me of a science experiment, except in this case the question is: how long can a dead body be artificially preserved. I think daily photos should be released so the world can see what a remarkable recovery is possible.

 

[NevadaMom]

Realistically, how long could Jahi's body remain on a vent & stay intact before any "deterioration" (term used in media rpts) progresses far enough that she would need to be taken off and buried? Months? A year or more? 3 years or more?

Well, if you look on the Muñoz case from Texas the husband said his wife's bones cracked when moved, and the smell of his wife had been replaced wit the smell of death. She was pronounced brain dead about 2 weeks before Jahi McMath, so I wouldn't doubt that the same conditions have or will be setting in for Jahi's body. Also the report from Heidi Flori on January 3rd about her respiratory secretions being malodorous. I don't imagine that is pleasant. :scared:

Oh, it's not wrong.

If you are seeing 01/01/1904 and 12:00:00 UST, that's the default. Also, if you are looking at the file which you may have saved to your own system on a Microsoft system, the system will populate the date and time you saved the file if those fields are blank, but the media date/time fields are different than the 'this file was created on this pc' date/time stamp.

I hope that makes sense. And you're right, obfuscation of the facts.

I'm on a Mac and the photos had the time I saved on my desktop, not the time the picture was taken on my iPhone.