Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[AddieBoo]

Oh, I loved it when he attacked me, lol. I enjoyed telling him what I thought of him. ( This was on another website, not this one)
It is a travesty that her killer hasn't been held accountable but even worse in my opinion is how he plays the victim, the grieving father.
Stomach churning.

Did you identify him from his posts?
He sounds very “medicated” to me these last few years…

There have been mentions of the anger of JR. Wonder if that anger ever showed itself to his young kids?
This murder is a travesty, I agree. Terrible terrible travesty.

 

[Bekind89]

Did you identify him from his posts?
He sounds very “medicated” to me these last few years…

There have been mentions of the anger of JR. Wonder if that anger ever showed itself to his young kids?
This murder is a travesty, I agree. Terrible terrible travesty.

It wasn't only me that became convinced that we were dealing with him. Everyone on that WS thought it was him. He was volatile and easy to provoke ( it literally took nothing to make him lose it).
We noticed a clear speech pattern, words we had heard JR use many times in interviews.
He had absolutely no patience, was condescending, if one did not immediately agree him, etc.
But this person, whoever it was, had a frightening, almost uncontrollable temper.
He HAD to be right, people posting MUST agree with whatever he said.
This person was entitled and thought he was superior to everyone else. I mean , very intelligent people post there, doctor's, writers, etc. ( they are just kind enough to accept my dumb self,lol)
One clearly got the impression that this person wasn't used to anyone questioning him or challenging him on anything and he didn't tolerate it irl.
A very unpleasant person.
One could almost smell the sulfur through the screen.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Bury their child less than an hour of discovering her dead? Are you serious? Parents can't even process that their child is actually gone in such a short times span. The shock hasn't even begun to hit them them.

Either way, he was going to have to handle it. And taking his family to Atlanta where their extended family lived and where they would bury JonBenet is not strange at all. Besides, for all the claims that a family would be in shock, no one seems to acknowledge that the officer who spoke to John about not going described him as not even objecting to the demand to stay put, barely reacting to it. Sounds pretty shocked to me.

 

[Bekind89]

Either way, he was going to have to handle it. And taking his family to Atlanta where their extended family lived and where they would bury JonBenet is not strange at all. Besides, for all the claims that a family would be in shock, no one seems to acknowledge that the officer who spoke to John about not going described him as not even objecting to the demand to stay put, barely reacting to it. Sounds pretty shocked to me.

JR didn't object because the police would have stopped him one way or the other and he knew this. In this situation JR's usual tactic of bullying and threatening people wasn't going to fly.
No matter how many different to ways people try to spin it, there was absolutely not one thing normal about JR that day. In any way.
No anger at whoever killed his child, no demanding that theins
police find arrest the monster who did this, no sobbing as most parents who have just lost a child do, nope. Just welp, she is gone and off I go to Atlanta.
That may seem normal to some, but it will never seem normal to me.

 

[oceanverde]

JR was on the phone attempting to hire attorneys within one hour of finding his murdered child's body. This has been stated by the people who were actually there at the time. He was also attempting to book a flight out of the state, and hell no, that is NOT a normal reaction for any parent in such a horrifying, shocking, tragic situation.

That is actually a normal reaction for someone that is innocent. The child was found murdered in their home for crying out loud. If that happened and I was innocent, I would hire an attorney immediately.

 

[Bekind89]

That is actually a normal reaction for someone that is innocent. The child was found murdered in their home for crying out loud. If that happened and I was innocent, I would hire an attorney immediately.

No it isn't, not that fast. Most parents are beyond grief stricken and numb upon realizing that their child is gone. They can hardly form a coherent thought.

 

[Ponytale]

John did hire multiple lawyers, which included for his ex wife and his two older children.

Yeah, definitely a first thought of an innocent parent after your daughter has just been found murdered in your own house by an intruder. Instead of going through his head about possible persons who could have killed his daughter, he is going through his head about who he should lawyer up. And apparently finds reasons to protect even his ex-wife.

From Thomas's book:
"Months would pass before we learned that only a few hours after the body of JonBenét was found, an attorney representing the Ramseys was already on the scene making calls."

A few hours... But in one of his first interviews he said:
"On the day after the tragedy we were being consoled by friends and family. And a close friend of mine who is also a practicing attorney took me aside and said: 'John, I see some things developing here that I would like to ask your permission to do some things that I think are necessary to be done.' And I said: 'Fine, do it.' "

From here it seems that he is implying that it had happened on the day after they found her, so on the 27th. Not hours later on the 26th.
Or, is he giving something away regarding knowing the exact day when JB died?

One more inconsistency to add to the list of many.

 

[Bekind89]

Yeah, definitely a first thought of an innocent parent after your daughter has just been found murdered in your own house by an intruder. Instead of going through his head about possible persons who could have killed his daughter, he is going through his head about who he should lawyer up. And apparently finds reasons to protect even his ex-wife.

From Thomas's book:
"Months would pass before we learned that only a few hours after the body of JonBenét was found, an attorney representing the Ramseys was already on the scene making calls."

A few hours... But in one of his first interviews he said:
"On the day after the tragedy we were being consoled by friends and family. And a close friend of mine who is also a practicing attorney took me aside and said: 'John, I see some things developing here that I would like to ask your permission to do some things that I think are necessary to be done.' And I said: 'Fine, do it.' "

From here it seems that he is implying that it had happened on the day after they found her, so on the 27th. Not hours later on the 26th.
Or, is he giving something away regarding knowing the exact day when JB died?

One more inconsistency to add to the list of many.

Yeah, definitely a first thought of an innocent parent after your daughter has just been found murdered in your own house by an intruder. Instead of going through his head about possible persons who could have killed his daughter, he is going through his head about who he should lawyer up. And apparently finds reasons to protect even his ex-wife.

From Thomas's book:
"Months would pass before we learned that only a few hours after the body of JonBenét was found, an attorney representing the Ramseys was already on the scene making calls."

A few hours... But in one of his first interviews he said:
"On the day after the tragedy we were being consoled by friends and family. And a close friend of mine who is also a practicing attorney took me aside and said: 'John, I see some things developing here that I would like to ask your permission to do some things that I think are necessary to be done.' And I said: 'Fine, do it.' "

From here it seems that he is implying that it had happened on the day after they found her, so on the 27th. Not hours later on the 26th.
Or, is he giving something away regarding knowing the exact day when JB died?

One more inconsistency to add to the list of many.

For the people who are saying that it was a wise decision to immediately hire attorneys, that isn't the point that was being addressed. The question was did JR act like a normal, grieving parent that day.
And I say, no, he did not.

 

[Ponytale]

For the people who are saying that it was a wise decision to immediately hire attorneys, that isn't the point that was being addressed. The question was did JR act like a normal, grieving parent that day.
And I say, no, he did not.

Neither of them did. Not on that day nor the following. I made a separate post on that recently on observations how a normal grieving (or a normal parent who's child is really kidnapped) parent would act.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Yeah, definitely a first thought of an innocent parent after your daughter has just been found murdered in your own house by an intruder. Instead of going through his head about possible persons who could have killed his daughter, he is going through his head about who he should lawyer up. And apparently finds reasons to protect even his ex-wife.

From Thomas's book:
"Months would pass before we learned that only a few hours after the body of JonBenét was found, an attorney representing the Ramseys was already on the scene making calls."

A few hours... But in one of his first interviews he said:
"On the day after the tragedy we were being consoled by friends and family. And a close friend of mine who is also a practicing attorney took me aside and said: 'John, I see some things developing here that I would like to ask your permission to do some things that I think are necessary to be done.' And I said: 'Fine, do it.' "

From here it seems that he is implying that it had happened on the day after they found her, so on the 27th. Not hours later on the 26th.
Or, is he giving something away regarding knowing the exact day when JB died?

One more inconsistency to add to the list of many.

Yeah, I think Thomas is the one giving faulty information here. Bynum also confirms John's account, and it makes sense given how the Ramseys acted with the police. As far as I know Thomas - who, it must be remembered, is a conspiracy-monger - stands alone on this.

 

[Bekind89]

Neither of them did. Not on that day nor the following. I made a separate post on that recently on observations how a normal grieving (or a normal parent who's child is really kidnapped) parent would act.

If you don't mind telling me your impressions of PR, I would love to hear what you think. I have been back and forth on her. I honestly do not believe she harmed her daughter, but did she cover for JR? What did she know , do you think?

 

[AddieBoo]

Either way, he was going to have to handle it. And taking his family to Atlanta where their extended family lived and where they would bury JonBenet is not strange at all. Besides, for all the claims that a family would be in shock, no one seems to acknowledge that the officer who spoke to John about not going described him as not even objecting to the demand to stay put, barely reacting to it. Sounds pretty shocked to

.

On the 29th JR booked a flight courtesy of Lockheed- to Atlanta for the funeral,

Two detectives told JR he couldn’t leave Boulder, after hearing him make the phone call to his pilot. The detectives had to explain it to him,,,calling for a plane 30 minutes after his child has been found?? What is John gonna do? Leave anyway? He was in a panic, Loose end somewhere probably…
Fleet White did the decent thing and cancelled that flight.
The 29th, Lockheed sent one of their planes for the family to Atlanta/funeral.

 

[Ponytale]

If you don't mind telling me your impressions of PR, I would love to hear what you think. I have been back and forth on her. I honestly do not believe she harmed her daughter, but did she cover for JR? What did she know , do you think?

My impression of PR is that, as she was a mother of two young children who was recovering from stage 4 cancer, she invested a lot in JB since she was 4 years old. Was it due to her cancer, we do not know, but we can assume. From a personal experience, I know of a mom who battled with cancer and because she did not know how much time she had left with her daughter, she became sort of obsessed with her, similar to Patsy. From the statements of Patsy's family and friends, she took the pageantry seriously and had big plans with JB. So I do not think that she accidentally killed her due to parental rage, bedwetting, stress or something else. I do not see her harming her - she was her life. I emphasize - it is only my opinion, I do not base it on any facts, and I do not state that it could not have happened.

I see that she was an outward person, who cared a lot about her and her families appearance and their social status. A lot of "not so nice" was swept under the rug or diminished, (like the bedwetting problems), and a picture of a happy, loving and wealthy family was presented to all who knew them. Looking at her written cards (like the christmas letter) it is easy to notice what indeed was important to her. Public opinion mattered a lot. IMO

I wrote about my theory in a separate post here "Just a theory on JB case", if you would like to read. I believe that there was an accident at the house that night that resulted with JB's scull fracture. And I believe that that accident was caused by Burke (he hit her hard in the fit of anger, but did not mean to kill her). I believe that the staging was done by his parents and he spent the night in his room and did not know anything about the staging. I believe they told Burke that JonBenet woke up from the "accident" and all was fine with her. That they all went to sleep soon after Burke was sent to his room and in the middle of the night a kidnapper entered their house and kidnapped his sister. And he believed his parents (at least for some time).
The reasons why I think John and Patsy mutually decided to cover it all up and stage a "monstrous" crime scene are:

• Because they did not want Burke to know and grow up knowing that he is the one responsible for murdering his sister.
• So that they all could be and stay the victims, not criminals.
• So that they would never have to admit publicly to the shame and guilt of being the parents of a child who killed his sister at 9 years old and have their reputation and life destroyed.
• So that the previous sexual abuse could be explained away.

One more possibility that was left out - If they did understand the severity (or were just afraid that the fracture possibly might have resulted in severe brain damage) of the head trauma (feeling the fracture and missing piece with their fingers on her scalp) - they just might have decided that the risk of having to forever care for a child in a vegetative state is so high that they did not want to do it. If Patsy understood that, then her dreams died that moment. IMO

And there is again the chance of being afraid that the child protection services would take away Burke and place him in an institution. I think of that as a possibility because of the sealing of all Burke's records. If there was something incriminating there to seal from police, they possibly had a reason to be afraid that they were guilty of something too. IMO

There are some here who dispute it all, but I see it as a possibility of what also could have happened. Unless someone can actually prove why it could not have happened this way. So please take it as my opinion only.

 

[Bekind89]

Thank you for your well thought out response. I never have believed that PR would harm JB either.
The issue I have with BR accidentally harming his sister is the fact that J&P allowed B to stay with a neighbor that day, without them being present. As young as BR was, that was quite a chance to take on their part, not knowing what BR might say to them or let slip out about what happened.
That doesn't rule BR out, it makes me doubt BR did it because J&P would have never allowed him out of their sight that day, IMHO. But I could be wrong, I frequently am.
I always wonder that if PR knew JR killed her daughter, would she have stayed with him.
I guess we will never know.

 

[Slebby]

The wealthy are treated much differently than the rest of us and that is wrong and not how it is supposed to be.
Rule of law is supposed to apply to everyone equally, but as we are painfully aware that isn't true.
Justice is for sell in this country and a person with enough money can buy their way out of anything.
I will always believe JR SA his daughter that night and he hurt her, hurt her badly enough to make her cry and he could not calm her down or make her be quiet.
JR wasn't about to be exposed for what he is to Patsy or anyone. He had to make certain that JB would never be able to tell anyone the truth about her sick father and what he did to her.
He should be in prison but he has never and will never be held accountable for JB.
Patsy had to know at least on some subconscious level. We will never know. Maybe her lifestyle was more important to her than justice for JB. I'm truly not trying to judge her, I would just like to what she knew it what she felt about JR, if she ever suspected him.

I totally agree, the Rs being rich experienced their LE interactions very differently from the average citizen.
I will always wonder what would have happened if the BPD/DA had treated the Rs as a family who need to be investigated as suspects. Imagine PR in one room and JR in another, being thoroughly questioned for hours.
The RN is so obviously written by PR, imo. I believe, if pressed long enough by a competent interrogator, PR would have caved. Competent interrogation could have set JR and PR against each other.

It’s absolutely disgusting to me that the R legal team was able to stonewall the investigation so completely. There is no equal justice in America.

 

[Ponytale]

Thank you for your well thought out response. I never have believed that PR would harm JB either.
The issue I have with BR accidentally harming his sister is the fact that J&P allowed B to stay with a neighbor that day, without them being present. As young as BR was, that was quite a chance to take on their part, not knowing what BR might say to them or let slip out about what happened.
That doesn't rule BR out, it makes me doubt BR did it because J&P would have never allowed him out of their sight that day, IMHO. But I could be wrong, I frequently am.
I always wonder that if PR knew JR killed her daughter, would she have stayed with him.
I guess we will never know.

You're welcome!
I think of it this way. If I believe that Burke did not know anything to tell, then there is nothing to worry about.
If he was indeed sent to his bed after the accident and he stayed there the whole night and came back down in the morning when Patsy was calling 911, he did not know anything about the staging or the kidnapping. He learnt about it from his parents (possibly John) that morning. Just like he said - his dad came and told him that JB was missing.
All they had to tell (or coach) him about was that he must never talk about the accident - that he had hit JB on the head. That's all there was to tell if he didn't really know about anything else. I see that Patsy and John saw sending Burke away a much better solution than letting him hang around the house, asking questions and maybe telling someone there that there was an "accident" while police was present.

But I do think that while at the Whites, Burke did say something. Something that led Fleet to think that the Ramsey's are not honest in their sayings and actions. Thus the rift that happened between them and the accusations made by Fleet against the Ramsey's (not cooperating and so on).

 

[Chypre]

That is actually a normal reaction for someone that is innocent. The child was found murdered in their home for crying out loud. If that happened and I was innocent, I would hire an attorney immediately.

IMO, for anyone that already has an attorney he works with, it was simple.

 

[Bekind89]

You're welcome!
I think of it this way. If I believe that Burke did not know anything to tell, then there is nothing to worry about.
If he was indeed sent to his bed after the accident and he stayed there the whole night and came back down in the morning when Patsy was calling 911, he did not know anything about the staging or the kidnapping. He learnt about it from his parents (possibly John) that morning. Just like he said - his dad came and told him that JB was missing.
All they had to tell (or coach) him about was that he must never talk about the accident - that he had hit JB on the head. That's all there was to tell if he didn't really know about anything else. I see that Patsy and John saw sending Burke away a much better solution than letting him hang around the house, asking questions and maybe telling someone there that there was an "accident" while police was present.

But I do think that while at the Whites, Burke did say something. Something that led Fleet to think that the Ramsey's are not honest in their sayings and actions. Thus the rift that happened between them and the accusations made by Fleet against the Ramsey's (not cooperating and so on).

Wasn't FW very suspicious of JR? Is he the one was there when JR found JB?
But if BR accidentally harmed his sister, why the stage a SA scene? That is pathologically sick, imo. What parent, mother especially, would even have such a thought enter her mind?
Of course those of us who have studied true crime all of our life have just about seen everything, but still.
They had the money and connections to get BR the best defense and placement in the best mental health facility. I mean, look at what they got away with and the special treatment they were given. JR ran that investigation, he called the shots and seasoned investigators meekly complied, from everything I saw. It was nauseating to witness.
This case is very frustrating. Such an incompetent investigation. JB deserved so much better than this.
Oh, a bit off topic but is it true that JR married a women who is somehow involved in beauty pageants?

 

[CloudedTruth]

On the 29th JR booked a flight courtesy of Lockheed- to Atlanta for the funeral,

Two detectives told JR he couldn’t leave Boulder, after hearing him make the phone call to his pilot. The detectives had to explain it to him,,,calling for a plane 30 minutes after his child has been found?? What is John gonna do? Leave anyway? He was in a panic, Loose end somewhere probably…
Fleet White did the decent thing and cancelled that flight.
The 29th, Lockheed sent one of their planes for the family to Atlanta/funeral.

So, this is actually two separate incidents that occurred that have become combined into one.

On 12/26, approximately 30 minutes after having found JonBenet's body, John Ramsey was on the phone with his pilot. He was overheard by police making arrangements to fly to Atlanta. Police confronted him immediately and told him he could not leave. John responded that he had an important meeting that he needed to attend the following morning, 12/27. We know this to not be true as the Ramseys were scheduled to be in Charlevoix for the next couple of days. The police explained to him that he could not leave, that he needed to stay in Boulder to answer questions and assist with the investigation to find the murderer and what had happened to JonBenet. John finally agreed. They were told they needed to leave the house, John has said in subsequent interviews that they had nowhere to go and they just wanted to go home (Atlanta). Police offered to take them to a hotel, John refused. They instead went to stay with the Fernies.

A few days later they were making arrangements for the funeral in Atlanta and as I recall the story may have already booked commercial flights, when the folks at Lockheed Martin offered one of the corporate jets instead. John agreed. As I understand it, the coffin containing JonBenet's body was flown on the commercial flight while John, Patsy, Burke and some of the friends who were accompanying them to Atlanta took the corporate jet.

 

[Bekind89]

So, this is actually two separate incidents that occurred that have become combined into one.

On 12/26, approximately 30 minutes after having found JonBenet's body, John Ramsey was on the phone with his pilot. He was overheard by police making arrangements to fly to Atlanta. Police confronted him immediately and told him he could not leave. John responded that he had an important meeting that he needed to attend the following morning, 12/27. We know this to not be true as the Ramseys were scheduled to be in Charlevoix for the next couple of days. The police explained to him that he could not leave, that he needed to stay in Boulder to answer questions and assist with the investigation to find the murderer and what had happened to JonBenet. John finally agreed. They were told they needed to leave the house, John has said in subsequent interviews that they had nowhere to go and they just wanted to go home (Atlanta). Police offered to take them to a hotel, John refused. They instead went to stay with the Fernies.

A few days later they were making arrangements for the funeral in Atlanta and as I recall the story may have already booked commercial flights, when the folks at Lockheed Martin offered one of the corporate jets instead. John agreed. As I understand it, the coffin containing JonBenet's body was flown on the commercial flight while John, Patsy, Burke and some of the friends who were accompanying them to Atlanta took the corporate jet.

The Ramsey's never returned to that home, did they? I would not have either.
That house is beautiful now, but when the Ramsey's lived there it was always dark , cluttered, and downright creepy to me.
I believe it was that awful basement that made that home feel so dark and foreboding.
The same with the basement at the Watts home.
Just no thank you .