Saying to call anyone at that point seems odd. LE was just one floor above them. All he had to do was holler up the stairs for them to come down.
Fleet is an odd duck. I never bought into his tall tale of how he went into that basement room before but didn't see her body. Was he bumbling around in the dark? The room had a window so it wouldn't have been super dark anyway.
They need to bring good old Fleet back to the table. That boy has guilt written all over him.
Saying to call anyone at that point seems odd. LE was just one floor above them. All he had to do was holler up the stairs for them to come down.
Fleet is an odd duck. I never bought into his tall tale of how he went into that basement room before but didn't see her body. Was he bumbling around in the dark? The room had a window so it wouldn't have been super dark anyway.
They need to bring good old Fleet back to the table. That boy has guilt written all over him.
Actually, that room had no windows. It was pitch black.
They did lighting tests to understand and prove or disprove Fleet's claim that he could not see into the room because he could not find the light switch. He was telling the truth. So the question becomes, how is it that John saw her before he turned on the light?
When they found the body, the only police presence at the house was Linda Arndt. Both John & Fleet should have hollered for help. John had gotten to the WC room first, Fleet followed after John screamed.
JB would be such a beautiful, accomplished young lady now. She should still be here. I hate to think about what that sweet little girl may have had to suffer through. I do believe she was a victim of SA, how long it occured, months, weeks, years , we will never know.
It really upsets me that she along many other young victims will never get justice. Not on this earth.
Those child pageants should be illegal, imo. Not that her death was the result of pageants, but there is something almost obscene about dressing up little girls to look like adults, mostly in suggestive clothing . Putting makeup on them. Let them be little girls, fgs.
Children are already targets from predators.
Sorry, rant over.
I'm not a fan of beauty pageants either, especially for little girls, but most of the participants grow up to be confident, self-assured women.
I think those pageants are too big of a draw for pedophiles.
The only upside to those pageants is that they help the child develop confidence--I wish they'd enroll the children in sports or something that would also create confidence without putting them at risk.
Look at Madison Marsh. She grew up in those pageants and she won Miss America last year. But guess what? She's also a fighter pilot.
I'm guessing Fleet White loved it when JBR had a sleepover with his daughter at his house. Did he help her with her toileting? Very likely. He probably convinced himself that she would welcome his attentions--pedophiles think crazy things. And when she didn't and started to struggle, he smashed her head and strangled her.
Actually, that room had no windows. It was pitch black.
They did lighting tests to understand and prove or disprove Fleet's claim that he could not see into the room because he could not find the light switch. He was telling the truth. So the question becomes, how is it that John saw her before he turned on the light?
When they found the body, the only police presence at the house was Linda Arndt. Both John & Fleet should have hollered for help. John had gotten to the WC room first, Fleet followed after John screamed.
You're right, the window was in a different room. But, Fleet had already been down in the basement looking for her (supposedly) so how likely is it that he couldn't find a light switch?
He knew where the switch was. He also knew the body was where it was.
I think that would be hard to say but based on my opinion from reading Detective Arndt’s notes, while she, the Ramseys and the other investigators were in the home waiting to receive contact from the kidnappers JR was cooperative in handing over his family’s phones, allowing her to attach a recorder to one of them, consenting to having a trap set up on his office ones, trying to arrange the collection and delivery of the requested $118,000 and being upfront in answering her inquiries about his background, his finances, his and JonBenet’s activities over the holiday weekend, the last time he seen his daughter, security in the household and giving investigators a sample of his handwriting to compare with the ransom letter. He seems to be acting in a way expectant of a parent who wants to help LE find and save their daughter being held for ransom. The affect he exhibits appears to be congruent or not outside the realm what one would expect of a waiting parent anxious over their child based on Arndt’s observations of his inability to talk or complete a sentence without breaking down, sobbing while informing Melinda that her sister has been abducted from home and the restlessness or agitation he seems to experience as he can’t focus on anything else.
I also think maybe parents who had to experience the heartbreak of grieving a child could relate to or understand JR’s response upon recovering JBR’s when he asked, according to Arndt, if his daughter was dead, despite noting she wasn’t breathing after removing the tape from her mouth, her body sadly already in rigor mortis, Arndt not finding a pulse and detecting a slight scent of decay. I think despite such factors right in front of them, any parent’s heart or brain would refuse to comprehend or accept it because it means acknowledging the loss of a child. He also at first struggled to stay away from the living room and help PR despite Arndt’s instructions and chose instead to mourn and collapse next to his daughter. Yes, because of the nature of this case and the suspicion on JR, people may understandably might think he is faking it or question the sincerity of his grief, but I also think in other circumstances, or maybe even this one, his behavior could be looked at as normal or acceptable or something others find empathetic as it exhibited by a parent who was just confronted by the reality of their beloved child‘s terrible and heartbreaking murder.
Arndt also notes that she was informed about JR’s plans to fly to Atlanta that afternoon or evening. According to a Barbara Walter’s interview, JR decided to fly home to Atlanta after he and PR were asked to clear their house in Boulder since it was the scene of the crime of JBR’s murder. This seems to align with Arndt’s recollection and he is informed by Mason that LE wants him to stay in the area for the next few days for further questioning. Of course, understandably the idea of JR would already want to leave the state despite discovering his youngest is deceased less than a hour earlier and leave JBR or her remains all alone while taking PR and BR with him comes off as callous and cold and perhaps even abnormal from a parent grieving their child. However, in addition to the possibility that JR was just heartless or wanted to get as far away as possible in the care he was responsible for her murder, I think other possible factors that could play a role in his decision-making are such things like the flight-or-fight respond driving him to want to flee physically the home, remains, people and town or place that would make him face the reality his 6 years old daughter JBR is dead, perhaps the further he gets the stronger the denial is in his head. Dissociation and/or becoming just numb could also play a role if he just becomes just too emotionally overwhelmed that his psychological walls or ability to cope break to the point that instead of being able to express the hurt or pain his brain just compartmentalizes everything, moves from one task to the other and moves and talks as though he doesn’t feel anything at all in the face of such trauma. I think of this too if considering in the case of JR not being responsible for his daughter’s murder JBR would still be the second child he would have to grieve and bury when surviving the loss of one is as a rule already asking parents for too much. Perhaps too he may also just really be holding it altogether until he is back in Atlanta, where he, PR and BR can be among the people they love and trust, feel most safe around, like JAR, MR, PR’s mother, their old friends and neighbors and things they consider most familiar, before he allows himself to completely break down?
Also, if considering he was flying his own plane and maybe he was not thinking that straight because of his grief and discovery of JBR, is it possible he thought he could have flown back and forth between Atlanta and Boulder often enough to keep himself and his family updated and engaged in LE investigations in his daughter’s murder case while also getting comfort from those he loves in Georgia? I am not a pilot or rich enough to fly with such resources so I am just thinking out loud with this one if aerodynamically possible.
Nonetheless, per LE request JR and PR did stay and cooperated with investigators as they provided samples of their handwriting, fingerprints and DNA, were interviewed by LE on the 27th and 28th before flying to Atlanta for JBR’s wake, funeral and memorial.
Twenty-four years after the horrendous murder of JonBenét Ramsey, her family is still feeling the repercussions.
abcnews.go.com
It is true, according to Arndt and FW in Westword, that JR received legal advice and references for legal representation from his friend Mike Bynum on the evening of the 26th and that within the next two days JR hired lawyers for both himself and PR, and actually his ex-wife as well after LE questioned her later. However, considering that JR was already under the impression that LE suspected him and/or PR already suspected him of JBR’s murder, MB and that PR at the time was in a state of extreme emotional anguish it does seem logical that JR would hire legal counsel for him and his wife as soon as possible. Though the quickness for which legal representation may have been hired may be looked at by some as indicative of guilt or the Ramseys hiding something it could also be just to ensure that a team or professional is available to sufficiently advocate for their innocence, even when in opposition to suspicion from LE and MSM, and in the instance JR and PR are unable to speak or respond to questioning adequately themselves, like PR might not have been as her treatment put her in what some friends called a Vicodin-Induced State. Furthermore, the Ramseys picked legal counsel who were not only recognized for their expertise in criminal defense but could work with a specialized team of conflict managers, media consultants and investigators who could help them find and identify their daughter’s killer independent of LE, with whom after a year of cooperation with, the Ramseys developed a tenuous stone-walled relationship, as may have been predicted and prepared for by said team earlier on, particularly as the Ramseys grew frustrated with false or defamatory reporting from MSM targeted against them going uncorrected by LE, Thomas grew enraged with the DA with whom he felt did not give enough support, pressure on JR and PR to do a polygraph test and disagreement between the Ramseys and LE about the quality of the investigation and evidence.
Not necessarily saying LE’s and the Ramseys approach to each other was right, especially because IMO it often stalled the investigation into the case, but perhaps it provides insight into how some of the decisions or factors took place (and show how to wealth can further help the rich circumvent criminal justice and investigative resources and instructors the rest of us lean on legally)
When John and Patsy Ramsey appeared on national television New Year’s Day, John Ramsey announced he wanted to hire “the best minds this country has to offer” to find his daughter&…
Netflix's Cold Case: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey explored whether early suspicion directed at the 6-year-old's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, irreparably muddied the investigation.
The Christmas-night murder of six-year-old beauty-pageant winner JonBenet Ramsey in Boulder, Colorado, shocked the country and turned her millionaire parents, John and Patsy, into suspects.
Wow, thank you for this excellent, information, and very interesting post and perception about their behavior.
So much information from so many different people was released to the public that it was overwhelming and one did not know who was being truthful and who was trustworthy.
A new book every month, it seemed.
Most people decided that PR killed her daughter in a fit of rage. This was at the beginning, the first few years. I don't remember much suspicion being directed at JR, it was Patsy.
Fast forward a decade or so later and people are talking about how suspicious and abnormal JR was acting! No one it seemed could make up their mind who the damn suspect should be. This seemed to include the investigators.
Such a mess, such a failure.
Actually, that room had no windows. It was pitch black.
They did lighting tests to understand and prove or disprove Fleet's claim that he could not see into the room because he could not find the light switch. He was telling the truth. So the question becomes, how is it that John saw her before he turned on the light?
When they found the body, the only police presence at the house was Linda Arndt. Both John & Fleet should have hollered for help. John had gotten to the WC room first, Fleet followed after John screamed.
I'm not a fan of beauty pageants either, especially for little girls, but most of the participants grow up to be confident, self-assured women.
I think those pageants are too big of a draw for pedophiles.
The only upside to those pageants is that they help the child develop confidence--I wish they'd enroll the children in sports or something that would also create confidence without putting them at risk.
Look at Madison Marsh. She grew up in those pageants and she won Miss America last year. But guess what? She's also a fighter pilot.
I'm guessing Fleet White loved it when JBR had a sleepover with his daughter at his house. Did he help her with her toileting? Very likely. He probably convinced himself that she would welcome his attentions--pedophiles think crazy things. And when she didn't and started to struggle, he smashed her head and strangled her.
Yes, the room appears to be used. The partially opened gifts with FAO wrapping paper were there, and the boot print. Patsy at some point claimed to have wrapped the christmas presents there. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm not a fan of beauty pageants either, especially for little girls, but most of the participants grow up to be confident, self-assured women.
I think those pageants are too big of a draw for pedophiles.
The only upside to those pageants is that they help the child develop confidence--I wish they'd enroll the children in sports or something that would also create confidence without putting them at risk.
Look at Madison Marsh. She grew up in those pageants and she won Miss America last year. But guess what? She's also a fighter pilot.
I'm guessing Fleet White loved it when JBR had a sleepover with his daughter at his house. Did he help her with her toileting? Very likely. He probably convinced himself that she would welcome his attentions--pedophiles think crazy things. And when she didn't and started to struggle, he smashed her head and strangled her.
I agree. It is just too dangerous now. As for JB and Patsy, if a child wants and likes to do pageants, that is different than being forced to participate because your mother is living her life her child. We see fathers do this to their sons. They force them into playing sports.
This is extremely damaging to the child.
What an empty, shallow life Patsy seemed to have. Did she have real friends that she spent time with? She only appeared to be with JB.
That poor girl must have felt absolutely smothered by her mother.
John appeared to have as much warmth as an ice cube. I remember one time years ago J& P were doing a morning show interview together. My mother said notice the way he looks at his wife. As if he has contempt for her.
That made me actually pity her.
You're right, the window was in a different room. But, Fleet had already been down in the basement looking for her (supposedly) so how likely is it that he couldn't find a light switch?
He knew where the switch was. He also knew the body was where it was.
But why did John scream before he even flipped the light switch on? He could not have seen her body yet he screamed.
Why was an empty suitcase by the basement window?
Who broke the basement window?
When there is no DNA, forensics, or a confession for a crime, all you have to go on is circumstanceal evidence. If you were investigating this who would be your most likely suspect be using only circumstanceal evidence?
For me it's JR. That doesn't mean he is guilty,I have no way of knowing that.
But it is what it is.
But why did John scream before he even flipped the light switch on? He could not have seen her body yet he screamed.
Why was an empty suitcase by the basement window?
Who broke the basement window?
When there is no DNA, forensics, or a confession for a crime, all you have to go on is circumstanceal evidence. If you were investigating this who would be your most likely suspect be using only circumstanceal evidence?
For me it's JR. That doesn't mean he is guilty,I have no way of knowing that.
But it is what it is.
" Then Ramsey, with White a
few paces behind, turned right into the boiler room. At the
rear was a door leading to what the family called the wine
cellar, a windowless room with brick walls. Ramsey pulled
the door open toward himself, stood at the threshold, and, peering to the left into the darkness, saw a white blanket on the floor just as he reached for the switch on the wall to his
right and turned on the light. Then he saw two little hands sticking out from under the blanket.
“Oh my God, oh my God,” he cried.
JonBenét was lying on the floor, partly wrapped in the
blanket. Her hands were extended over her head and
appeared to be tied together. There was tape covering her
mouth.
From a distance of about 12 feet, Fleet White saw
Ramsey enter the wine cellar and turn out of sight to his
left. As Ramsey cried out a second time, White followed him
into the room."
Yes, the room appears to be used. The partially opened gifts with FAO wrapping paper were there, and the boot print. Patsy at some point claimed to have wrapped the christmas presents there. Correct me if I'm wrong.
" Then Ramsey, with White a
few paces behind, turned right into the boiler room. At the
rear was a door leading to what the family called the wine
cellar, a windowless room with brick walls. Ramsey pulled
the door open toward himself, stood at the threshold, and, peering to the left into the darkness, saw a white blanket on the floor just as he reached for the switch on the wall to his
right and turned on the light. Then he saw two little hands sticking out from under the blanket.
“Oh my God, oh my God,” he cried.
JonBenét was lying on the floor, partly wrapped in the
blanket. Her hands were extended over her head and
appeared to be tied together. There was tape covering her
mouth.
From a distance of about 12 feet, Fleet White saw
Ramsey enter the wine cellar and turn out of sight to his
left. As Ramsey cried out a second time, White followed him
into the room."
I think the house maybe represented how they felt inside. They all smiled and posed, but inside they all must have been a mess. I bet when they had guests they (with help) cleaned it up. Just to show. And when they had their house tour and parties - I doubt many knew the reality of what the house looked like a day later, when there was no one to show it to. Their whole life was a big pageant, so to say, but when the curtains closed the masks came down.
Same, I think as a little girl I would have loved JBR’s bedroom too because of the whole princess feel with the private balcony, pink walls, wide space, tall, draped over the bed, wide windows and the same Beauty and Beast bed sheets and pillow case I had growing up.
Emphasis on maze. Probably the best place for a game of hide-and-seek but based on the Historical Society’s 1994 short video of the Ramseys televised tour of their home for Christmas but I can’t imagine being a new guest at the time the house was decorated like this and walking around the house at night without the use of a flashlight or Tinkerbell and not knocking over every candle holder, plate, china cabinet, and figurine/doll before eventually giving up and calling the police on myself because I got lost.
"The CBI had already determined that the stain on JonBenét’s
underpants—which appeared to be blood and turned out
indeed to be blood—was not solely hers. A D1S80 DNA test
showed that the stain came from at least two different
sources.* After receiving the report, the police contacted the
parents of JonBenét’s playmates to see if any of the children
had ever exchanged clothes with her. Priscilla White said
she could not remember her daughter, Daphne, trading
clothes with JonBenét, but Daphne told Detectives Arndt and
Harmer that she and JonBenét sometimes wore each other’s
clothes. During their interviews, the police were told that
Fleet White had sometimes changed JonBenét’s panties.
Months later, Pam Paugh, Patsy’s sister, told a TV reporter
that she knew White had changed her niece’s clothes."
Same, I think as a little girl I would have loved JBR’s bedroom too because of the whole princess feel with the private balcony, pink walls, wide space, tall, draped over the bed, wide windows and the same Beauty and Beast bed sheets and pillow case I had growing up.
Emphasis on maze. Probably the best place for a game of hide-and-seek but based on the Historical Society’s 1994 short video of the Ramseys televised tour of their home for Christmas but I can’t imagine being a new guest at the time the house was decorated like this and walking around the house at night without the use of a flashlight or Tinkerbell and not knocking over every candle holder, plate, china cabinet, and figurine/doll before eventually giving up and calling the police on myself because I got lost.
This is why I have always found it difficult to believe that an intruder found his way around that dark, confusing and cluttered home.
I would have probably broken my neck walking in that house in the dark. At the very least many things would have fallen from shelves and cabinets, dressers, whatever all they had.
"The CBI had already determined that the stain on JonBenét’s
underpants—which appeared to be blood and turned out
indeed to be blood—was not solely hers. A D1S80 DNA test
showed that the stain came from at least two different
sources.* After receiving the report, the police contacted the
parents of JonBenét’s playmates to see if any of the children
had ever exchanged clothes with her. Priscilla White said
she could not remember her daughter, Daphne, trading
clothes with JonBenét, but Daphne told Detectives Arndt and
Harmer that she and JonBenét sometimes wore each other’s
clothes. During their interviews, the police were told that
Fleet White had sometimes changed JonBenét’s panties.
Months later, Pam Paugh, Patsy’s sister, told a TV reporter
that she knew White had changed her niece’s clothes.
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