Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[GRT]

But what if a written confession from John will be found? Truth or not, it would still close the case, wouldn't it?

Yes, it probably would close the case.

But, that's not going to happen.

MOO

 

[AddieBoo]

Dang it, I was reading about this a few days ago, and of course can’t find the link now. Not about Burke specifically, but more generally: “if a child committed a murder, can they be charged 20 years later ?” I think the insufficient age statute would still apply here - if BR was the alleged killer, he was still 9 at the time, and being 40 or whatever now doesn’t change that.




Specifically he’s leaving it to Burke, since he’s the only other person who was actually in the house (that we know of).

Here’s where I struggle with BDI - not because it’s outside the realm of possibility, but because - and then what?

Let’s say he’s guilty and it’s revealed publicly. What outcome would satisfy the public? He likely cannot be prosecuted, even if LE/DA had irrefutable evidence of his guilt (which they don’t). I guess we can destroy a man’s reputation and livelihood for something he did when he was a literal child. Our online outrage machine may encourage some actual crazy person to make an attempt on his life in the name of ‘justice for JonBenet’. And would it be, really?

I think the justice system would know how to handle the killer, once prosecuted, regardless of age.

Justice is about JonBenet. About the injustice to her life and the injustice about the discovery of that truth.
Say Burke is innocent but he knows what happened? Wouldn’t he carry rage about how his family has made him live his life. Or JAR? Leaving his suitcase with those contents…
If either brother knows what happened they could find the best attorneys and tell the truth figure it out and have a chance in life. I don’t agree with this, but a press conference/interview ….? They could name their price. Or just come forward and tell the truth for their sister. There would be a huge wave and then the wave would subside. And life would go on without that enormous burden. Both brothers are still young men…it’s one more Ramsey crime to ruin their lives further to save the skin of their parents.
JonBenet deserves justice. But the brothers do too if they are innocent. They deserve a life.
MOO

 

[Chimera]

Yes ! Four True Bills for very serious felony charges. The Grand Jury very much agreed that there was probable cause to indict.....

Again, had the GJ found the evidence against the Ramsey's to be weak they would have returned a NO Bill.. The GJ voted on charges to indict that they believed could be reasonably met at trial.

What was weak was the DA Alex Hunter. If he was so confident in his decision to not prosecute then why hide the Grand Jury's True Bill for 14 years??

Bbm.
Maybe John had threatened him ?
Not totally impossible.
Imo.

 

[AddieBoo]

But what if a written confession from John will be found? Truth or not, it would still close the case, wouldn't it?

I don’t know.

 

[Chypre]

Please carry on discussing if he accidentally hit his sister, but it has nothing to do with murder. The other aspects of this case could be part of an adult committing murder or a coverup of an accident. I am making the point purely that we don’t need to worry about clearing or prosecuting BR then or now because he was incapable of murder in the same way that a 2-year-old shooting their mother dead with a gun is incapable of murder. We can all disagree with the legal definition, of course.

Yes!

 

[AddieBoo]

I think the justice system would know how to handle the killer, once prosecuted, regardless of age.

Justice is about JonBenet. About the injustice to her life and the injustice about the discovery of that truth.
Say Burke is innocent but he knows what happened? Wouldn’t he carry rage about how his family has made him live his life. Or JAR? Leaving his suitcase with those contents…
If either brother knows what happened they could find the best attorneys and tell the truth figure it out and have a chance in life. I don’t agree with this, but a press conference/interview ….? They could name their price. Or just come forward and tell the truth for their sister. There would be a huge wave and then the wave would subside. And life would go on without that enormous burden. Both brothers are still young men…it’s one more Ramsey crime to ruin their lives further to save the skin of their parents.
JonBenet deserves justice. But the brothers do too if they are innocent. They deserve a life.
MOO

If a “confession letter” signed by JR if miraculously found it’s gonna look really bad for the family. Another staged event… and JR walked free.

The best chance those two brothers have is come forward and tell the truth before JR dies.

 

[Ponytale]

If a “confession letter” signed by JR if miraculously found it’s gonna look really bad for the family. Another staged event… and JR walked free.

The best chance those two brothers have is come forward and tell the truth before JR dies.

Yes, I would love for that to happen. But I unfortunately doubt that it will. They have had their chance to do so for years...

 

[Tower]

Dang it, I was reading about this a few days ago, and of course can’t find the link now. Not about Burke specifically, but more generally: “if a child committed a murder, can they be charged 20 years later ?” I think the insufficient age statute would still apply here - if BR was the alleged killer, he was still 9 at the time, and being 40 or whatever now doesn’t change that.




Specifically he’s leaving it to Burke, since he’s the only other person who was actually in the house (that we know of).

Here’s where I struggle with BDI - not because it’s outside the realm of possibility, but because - and then what?

Let’s say he’s guilty and it’s revealed publicly. What outcome would satisfy the public? He likely cannot be prosecuted, even if LE/DA had irrefutable evidence of his guilt (which they don’t). I guess we can destroy a man’s reputation and livelihood for something he did when he was a literal child. Our online outrage machine may encourage some actual crazy person to make an attempt on his life in the name of ‘justice for JonBenet’. And would it be, really?

Guilty of what? Do BDI folks think that BR deliberately intended to end JBR’s life? Guilty of an accident? Guilty of intending to kill her even thought he was too young to form that intent?

And yes, you are correct, you cannot convict an adult of a crime they committed when they were 9 when it would not have been a crime then.

 

[AddieBoo]

Guilty of what? Do BDI folks think that BR deliberately intended to end JBR’s life? Guilty of an accident? Guilty of intending to kill her even thought he was too young to form that intent?

And yes, you are correct, you cannot convict an adult of a crime they committed when they were 9 when it would not have been a crime then.

Kids kill. They commit SA crimes. If you are interested how it pertains to the case, Kolar made some significant inquires in the professional sphere of SBP. In his book..
I did not say that a prosecution could not be adjudicated for a now adult, from a crime committed when they were younger than 10 in Colorado. That was a question.
If it is discovered that BDI, then do you really think charges would be dismissed? I don’t know how the DA would handle it, but doubtful it would be an all out dismissal.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Dang it, I was reading about this a few days ago, and of course can’t find the link now. Not about Burke specifically, but more generally: “if a child committed a murder, can they be charged 20 years later ?” I think the insufficient age statute would still apply here - if BR was the alleged killer, he was still 9 at the time, and being 40 or whatever now doesn’t change that.




Specifically he’s leaving it to Burke, since he’s the only other person who was actually in the house (that we know of).

Here’s where I struggle with BDI - not because it’s outside the realm of possibility, but because - and then what?

Let’s say he’s guilty and it’s revealed publicly. What outcome would satisfy the public? He likely cannot be prosecuted, even if LE/DA had irrefutable evidence of his guilt (which they don’t). I guess we can destroy a man’s reputation and livelihood for something he did when he was a literal child. Our online outrage machine may encourage some actual crazy person to make an attempt on his life in the name of ‘justice for JonBenet’. And would it be, really?

I feel BR has suffered a lifetime for choices his parents made for him as a child. Even if he had no involvement in the ending of JBRs life, I find it impossible to overlook the outright lies we have been told by the Ramseys. At times, I feel guilty to participate in these discussions because BR was a child but it has not stopped JR from manipulating the public and destroying innocent people in his wake. We live in a world were it is getting harder and harder to tell fact from fiction. JR lies with such ease and impunity . If you chose to believe him that is your porogitive. I dont.
I wish BR could close the chapter with the truth. He knows what happened that night even if it wasn't him. He was a child. If you think BR caused his sister's death, he didn't. His parents allowed it to happen if he did. They may have been in denial, they may not have been receiving proper medical advice, they may have been negligent because they were too wrapped up in their own lives but either way it was on their watch that something terrible happened that night to JBR. If BR was responsible, I hope he got treatment and understands who was responsible for keeping JB safe. I would not want him punished in any way. I just wish the propaganda machine would end.
Maybe when the old man dies, we will stop debating because no one will be trying to spoonfeed feces down our throats and the need to keep throwing it back up will stop.

I found this info doing research and wondered if the Ramsey case had anything to do with the revisions made
It was one of our hotly debated topics

FAQ: Colorado Criminal Juvenile Law – What Kind of Information is Given to the Schools When My Child is Charged With a Colorado Juvenile Crime

FAQ: Colorado Criminal Juvenile Law - What Kind of Information is Given to the Schools When My Child is Charged With a Colorado Juvenile Crime? Information Exchanges Between the Police and the [...]

www.criminal-lawyer-colorado.com

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

The information I post is from my own research, digging etc. I am not an authority nor do I have a law degree.
So … doing your own research in addition to the information posted here can give broader perspectives as well as squash all the myths and twisted information that has been in the public domain for years. There are some incredibly intelligent posts of this site. And I’ve had more than one case of whiplash and a foot chewed off…

Mike Kane was the lead prosecutor from the DA’s office, brought in specifically to be the lead prosecutor for the Grand Jury. This Grand Jury was not usual in that not only did they hear testimony from the prosecutor, but also the defense. They heard all of Smits’s theories (which is kinda weird being theories), handwriting experts from the Ramsey team and others. Kane has heard it all and if you want a glimpse of what he was up against, some of his depositions are on You Tube.

One of the most important facts to understand is the scope of impropriety that engulfed this case, some think as soon as hours after the crime…Everything about this case is extraordinary and would not be surprised if university law departments profiled this case as part of their coarse work.

Mike Kane’s opinion carries a lot of weight IMO. So for me, it is base, so far. He has stated more than once that he did not think Burke was involved.

Burke Ramsey could not be criminally prosecuted in the state of Colorado because of his age. Whether or not he can be prosecuted now, for an alleged crime done when he was 9.., I have no idea. But first there must be probable cause for an indictment and so far, Mike Kane’s statement indicates that doesn’t exist. However Burke Ramsey has not been cleared by BPD as a suspect in this case…Unless someone has other information…

I do believe strongly that there is a growing number of the public who are pushing back regarding the flow of misinformation, all the improprieties of how this entire case has been handled as well as the injustices of wealth and power in control of the public narrative and how that control has prevented justice for a 6 year old child.

John Ramsey is leaving this monstrous injustice to his family IMO. He has the power to alter the course of his legacy and give his family and generations of his family the power of peace. He should do this before someone else, who is very credible, shatters the ice he has been standing on, with his family, for 28 years. Secrets fester until they don’t. MOO

I personally do not wish BR to carry this burden for the rest of his life.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

In the case or theory that if BR was responsible for JBR’s head wound, I can’t help but wonder why would the parents in this case be so quick to give up on their daughter and choose to stage a crime scene and further cause your daughter’s death, thereby murder her, by strangling her with a garrote? According to BPD, the head wound did not cause instantaneous death, with one detective estimating that JBR was strangled at least two hours after her TBI. That means that she was still alive and breathing in that time. Yes, she would have been unconscious but unconsciousness doesn’t mean dead. To them wouldn’t that mean that there was still a chance, however small, of saving her life after receiving such a devastating blow to the head? Neither one of them were doctors so on what basis did they have to judge that JBR would never recover, that the wounds were fatal or that such wounds could not be properly treated in the hospital or by emergency responders? In the preceding 3 years alone JBR has visited her regular pediatrician 30 times but in this case, another instance where she clearly needed medical attention, neither parent wants to turn to their local doctors or medical providers for help? If they felt like they could stage a crime scene and omit and lie to police to point towards an intruder, and away from Burke, couldn’t they have done the same if they had called 911 sooner and lied by stating that their daughter fell down the stairs or fell off the kitchen chair and hit her head and wasn’t responding to either one of them? This way they could have still gotten JBR help while leaving BR completely out of the equation completely as they contacted emergency responders. It is not like they were forensic experts or would have known about the skull fracture at that time so how would they have known using such lies would have been discounted by the medical examiners and investigators that had evidence of a JBR suffering a blow to the head?

Or they just lawyered up at the hospital after ensuring that JBR was properly attended to?

Why would it be easier for two parents to put a garrote around their living daughter’s neck over getting an ambulance? JR already had to bury one child in 1992, the hardest thing any parent would ever be ask to do, and PR was in remission after fighting for her own life and just beating cancer. After all that, with all their money and resources, the best solution they could think of in the case of BDI was not to fight as hard to preserve JBR’s life as hard as PR’s fought for hers, sickeningly sexually assault her with a paint brush, brutally strangle their own daughter, place blame on an intruder and later on, plan JBR’s funeral and just bury their own flesh and blood, despite how much it broke JR the first time he was forced to do it, according to friends and family?

How much trouble or what kind of trouble did they reasonably think BR would face if found responsible for striking and severely injuring JBR? Especially in the likelihood it was an accident in that BR did not intend to kill his sister and as a child at the age of 9, was not aware of his strength, behaved impulsively while in a fit of anger or rage, or was aware of the risk or repercussions of striking someone in the head or with a weapon or item like a flashlight? Or in the case that JBR survived her injuries because parents were able to get her medical attention in a timely manner? How were they certain the risks to BR would be worth the risks, loss and repercussions of carrying out JBR’s murder, staging of a crime scene and misleading the police all in order to protect him? Especially if on their own they lacked the ability to determine the likelihood of JBR’s survival on top of all this? It doesn’t seem likely that BR would have been charged or later sentenced for her murder, served time in the juvenile detention system or such? It is possible that the court would order him to be thoroughly evaluated and may determine that he get proper treatment for any emotional, mental or psychological disturbances that led up to JBR’s injuries and death in the case if BDI did it. However, that doesn’t mean that the Ramseys would permanently, if at all, lose their son or that the punishment would be so detrimental to BR’s life and safety, say like in some illogical hypothetical scenario he was charged, sent to adult prison as a juvenile and sentenced to the death penalty, that the only way his desperate parents could save him or preserve his life was by further robbing JBR’s of hers and any justice thereafter. IMO

They had no real basis, evidence or lab tests available to them to determine whether or not JBR wounds would be fatal so I would like to think they thought through all these likelihoods and scenarios, which could have acted as deterrents, or they played some type of role in the case BR was responsible and in thinking of PR’s and JR’s decision-making if they did in fact actively end their daughter’s life, murder her and stage a cover up to protect their son.

I am not saying that I rule out BDI completely, but some of these thoughts in relation to it does confound me .

JMO/JMT

 

[CrimeTheorist]

I wonder if the reason this case doesn't make sense is because PR might have been dealing with a possible drug addiction.

 

[AddieBoo]

I feel BR has suffered a lifetime for choices his parents made for him as a child. Even if he had no involvement in the ending of JBRs life, I find it impossible to overlook the outright lies we have been told by the Ramseys. At times, I feel guilty to participate in these discussions because BR was a child but it has not stopped JR from manipulating the public and destroying innocent people in his wake. We live in a world were it is getting harder and harder to tell fact from fiction. JR lies with such ease and impunity . If you chose to believe him that is your porogitive. I dont.
I wish BR could close the chapter with the truth. He knows what happened that night even if it wasn't him. He was a child. If you think BR caused his sister's death, he didn't. His parents allowed it to happen if he did. They may have been in denial, they may not have been receiving proper medical advice, they may have been negligent because they were too wrapped up in their own lives but either way it was on their watch that something terrible happened that night to JBR. If BR was responsible, I hope he got treatment and understands who was responsible for keeping JB safe. I would not want him punished in any way. I just wish the propaganda machine would end.
Maybe when the old man dies, we will stop debating because no one will be trying to spoonfeed feces down our throats and the need to keep throwing it back up will stop.

I found this info doing research and wondered if the Ramsey case had anything to do with the revisions made
It was one of our hotly debated topics

FAQ: Colorado Criminal Juvenile Law – What Kind of Information is Given to the Schools When My Child is Charged With a Colorado Juvenile Crime

FAQ: Colorado Criminal Juvenile Law - What Kind of Information is Given to the Schools When My Child is Charged With a Colorado Juvenile Crime? Information Exchanges Between the Police and the [...]

www.criminal-lawyer-colorado.com

In the case or theory that if BR was responsible for JBR’s head wound, I can’t help but wonder why would the parents in this case be so quick to give up on their daughter and choose to stage a crime scene and further cause your daughter’s death, thereby murder her, by strangling her with a garrote? According to BPD, the head wound did not cause instantaneous death, with one detective estimating that JBR was strangled at least two hours after her TBI. That means that she was still alive and breathing in that time. Yes, she would have been unconscious but unconsciousness doesn’t mean dead. To them wouldn’t that mean that there was still a chance, however small, of saving her life after receiving such a devastating blow to the head? Neither one of them were doctors so on what basis did they have to judge that JBR would never recover, that the wounds were fatal or that such wounds could not be properly treated in the hospital or by emergency responders? In the preceding 3 years alone JBR has visited her regular pediatrician 30 times but in this case, another instance where she clearly needed medical attention, neither parent wants to turn to their local doctors or medical providers for help? If they felt like they could stage a crime scene and omit and lie to police to point towards an intruder, and away from Burke, couldn’t they have done the same if they had called 911 sooner and lied by stating that their daughter fell down the stairs or fell off the kitchen chair and hit her head and wasn’t responding to either one of them? This way they could have still gotten JBR help while leaving BR completely out of the equation completely as they contacted emergency responders. It is not like they were forensic experts or would have known about the skull fracture at that time so how would they have known using such lies would have been discounted by the medical examiners and investigators that had evidence of a JBR suffering a blow to the head?

Or they just lawyered up at the hospital after ensuring that JBR was properly attended to?

Why would it be easier for two parents to put a garrote around their living daughter’s neck over getting an ambulance? JR already had to bury one child in 1992, the hardest thing any parent would ever be ask to do, and PR was in remission after fighting for her own life and just beating cancer. After all that, with all their money and resources, the best solution they could think of in the case of BDI was not to fight as hard to preserve JBR’s life as hard as PR’s fought for hers, sickeningly sexually assault her with a paint brush, brutally strangle their own daughter, place blame on an intruder and later on, plan JBR’s funeral and just bury their own flesh and blood, despite how much it broke JR the first time he was forced to do it, according to friends and family?

How much trouble or what kind of trouble did they reasonably think BR would face if found responsible for striking and severely injuring JBR? Especially in the likelihood it was an accident in that BR did not intend to kill his sister and as a child at the age of 9, was not aware of his strength, behaved impulsively while in a fit of anger or rage, or was aware of the risk or repercussions of striking someone in the head or with a weapon or item like a flashlight? Or in the case that JBR survived her injuries because parents were able to get her medical attention in a timely manner? How were they certain the risks to BR would be worth the risks, loss and repercussions of carrying out JBR’s murder, staging of a crime scene and misleading the police all in order to protect him? Especially if on their own they lacked the ability to determine the likelihood of JBR’s survival on top of all this? It doesn’t seem likely that BR would have been charged or later sentenced for her murder, served time in the juvenile detention system or such? It is possible that the court would order him to be thoroughly evaluated and may determine that he get proper treatment for any emotional, mental or psychological disturbances that led up to JBR’s injuries and death in the case if BDI did it. However, that doesn’t mean that the Ramseys would permanently, if at all, lose their son or that the punishment would be so detrimental to BR’s life and safety, say like in some illogical hypothetical scenario he was charged, sent to adult prison as a juvenile and sentenced to the death penalty, that the only way his desperate parents could save him or preserve his life was by further robbing JBR’s of hers and any justice thereafter. IMO

They had no real basis, evidence or lab tests available to them to determine whether or not JBR wounds would be fatal so I would like to think they thought through all these likelihoods and scenarios, which could have acted as deterrents, or they played some type of role in the case BR was responsible and in thinking of PR’s and JR’s decision-making if they did in fact actively end their daughter’s life, murder her and stage a cover up to protect their son.

I am not saying that I rule out BDI completely, but some of these thoughts in relation to it does confound me .

JMO/JMT

Maybe the whole staging was not to protect their son, but to protect their secret (SA of JBR)
Dr Cyril Wecht thought the skull fracture occurred right before JBR death. There was 1.5 teaspoons of blood in her skull. That massive fracture should have caused much internal bleeding, but because she was near death when it happened (very little blood pressure) there was practically none.
His book, “ Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?” is about his conclusions from autopsy notes and pictures.
His book is still in print. Don’t think JR sued him…though the good doctor plainly states, “the father” in answer to his books title…but Alan Dershowitz wrote a caption for his book…lol. It’s one theory among the rest - he is at the top of his field.

I wonder if the reason this case doesn't make sense is because PR might have been dealing with a possible drug addiction.

Opioid's? That crossed my mind too. Her cancer was brutal…

 

[AddieBoo]

I feel BR has suffered a lifetime for choices his parents made for him as a child. Even if he had no involvement in the ending of JBRs life, I find it impossible to overlook the outright lies we have been told by the Ramseys. At times, I feel guilty to participate in these discussions because BR was a child but it has not stopped JR from manipulating the public and destroying innocent people in his wake. We live in a world were it is getting harder and harder to tell fact from fiction. JR lies with such ease and impunity . If you chose to believe him that is your porogitive. I dont.
I wish BR could close the chapter with the truth. He knows what happened that night even if it wasn't him. He was a child. If you think BR caused his sister's death, he didn't. His parents allowed it to happen if he did. They may have been in denial, they may not have been receiving proper medical advice, they may have been negligent because they were too wrapped up in their own lives but either way it was on their watch that something terrible happened that night to JBR. If BR was responsible, I hope he got treatment and understands who was responsible for keeping JB safe. I would not want him punished in any way. I just wish the propaganda machine would end.
Maybe when the old man dies, we will stop debating because no one will be trying to spoonfeed feces down our throats and the need to keep throwing it back up will stop.

I found this info doing research and wondered if the Ramsey case had anything to do with the revisions made
It was one of our hotly debated topics

FAQ: Colorado Criminal Juvenile Law – What Kind of Information is Given to the Schools When My Child is Charged With a Colorado Juvenile Crime

FAQ: Colorado Criminal Juvenile Law - What Kind of Information is Given to the Schools When My Child is Charged With a Colorado Juvenile Crime? Information Exchanges Between the Police and the [...]

www.criminal-lawyer-colorado.com

If you are on board with the Mike Kane theory, RDI but not BR.

If you are on board with Kolar, BR did it. Kolar had seen and heard all GJ testimony too, just like Mike Kane, but came to a different conclusion. The experts from the CBS limited series believe BDI.Steve Thomas thought PDI. The housekeeper thought PDI. So who knows?
I remember reading BR was going to psychiatrist after the murder which could indicate medication.
Don’t know if the GJ subpoenaed those records or not.

I haven’t formed an absolute opinion other than JBR was the victim of prior SA. To me, that is ground zero.

The statute is really interesting. Hot button topic. Don’t think that would have been concerning BR though. His face was plastered all over the tabloids as a kid.
Always wondered how his school mates treated him? Kids can be so vicious.

 

[KristopherKolumbo]

Maybe the whole staging was not to protect their son, but to protect their secret (SA of JBR)

Always considered this the Occam's razor.

"Father says DNA can solve..." Kinda says it all. Who benefits from spinning this yarn, without the DNA results?

I just don't care about the DNA until it's identified. Plenty of documented behavior and circumstantial evidence which informs my gut feeling.

And my gut don't require a motive which i entirely understand. Plenty of evil occurs in this world that i can't fathom. Much of it hard to believe. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. Thread after thread on this site informs & reminds me of what people are capable of. Who can understand Jenn Sotos's blind eye to her daughter's nightmare? Not me. But it happened.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I feel as though the BPD dropped the ball in the early weeks, and the Ramseys were unfairly maligned because Patsy let JBR participate in baby beauty pageants. No matter what anyone thinks about those pageants (I hate them), there's no evidence parents of baby beauty queens are any more abusive than any other parents.

I agree, particularly in regards to BPD dropping the ball. For example, under what circumstances is it appropriate for a detective to ask a parent and their friend to search the house to look for a missing child? Shouldn’t that be LE’s responsibility, especially considering statistically most child homicides are committed by a parent or stepparent, they already suspected the Ramseys and they didn’t know JR’s friends from Adam and they asked them to do so alone, with no LE supervision or official following them and noting their movements or behaviors? How would they know at that time that JR if involved wouldn’t just move and hide JBR’s body further, contaminate evidence and then bribe or convince his friend to go along with it all? In the likelihood JR did come across something what was their plan to prevent contamination of the evidence and preservation of the scene of the crime afterwards? It is not like JR is an LE official, so suspect or not, it could not be expected that he, or any civilian, would be aware of or considerate of any of those details in the search and discovery of his daughter. That was under LE’s purview.

The same when it comes to the Ramsey house. Media has pointed suspicion at the Ramseys for having friends and neighbors coming in and out of the home after alerting LE that their daughter was missing and possibly taken for ransom. However, it is LE’s job, not the Ramseys, to lock the place down. Whether media is right or not that Ramseys intended to contaminate evidence, their intentions matter little when LE had the power and authority and need to cordon the place off to preserve evidence and make it easier for investigators to do their job. It was their responsibility to tell everyone that was not PR, JR and BR to go get out or to go home and if they had testimony or statements they think they might be helpful, arrange for investigators to meet with them at their homes or locations or conduct interviews at the station. Apparently, early in the investigation they only sectioned off JBR’s bedroom as a potential crime scene and not the rest of the house. It makes sense why JBR’s bedroom was looked at so thoroughly but LE knew early on that if a crime did occur neither she or her remains were left there. Considering her parents were looked at as suspects, they were in their home and they suspected JBR had moved or had been moved from her bedroom wouldn’t it have made sense to also lock down the rest of the house as a potential crime scene altogether? In particular when considering LE would want to track or look for evidence indicating where exactly the murder had occurred, if and where an assault took place, look for any place that the parents could be hiding or storing any weapons and in the likelihood that JBR was already deceased, where in the home they may have hidden, move or stored her remains? This would mean no visitors in or out to decrease the risk of contamination and evidence being misplaced or moved around, investigators looking in and around and outside the house for any clues or discrepancies, leaving no floor unexamined and asking JR and PR not to touch anything as they recounted events to LE and showed them around before secluding to one space or area of the home as the investigation continued. The fact that LE did not go in the basement and discover JBR themselves and allowed guests to enter does make one wonder what kind of protocol was being followed in the search for a missing and possibly even deceased child?

As a BPD official has stated years later, PR and JR should have been interviewed and interviewed separately, within the first 24 hours or more specifically while they and the investigators were still searching the home instead of months later. As heartbreaking as it is to not allow a grieving parent to touch or hold their recently deceased child, PR should not have been allowed to embrace JBR’s remains since it could have lead to contamination of evidence or the transference of fibers or materials that muddles or confounds LE investigation of the crime, like the fibers from PR’s coat that were later found on JBR.

And again, they shouldn’t have asked JR and his friend to look around the house themselves, especially not alone, as it led JR’s discovery of the deceased JBR and incidentally could have further altered or contaminated the crime scene. It is not even clear if they were given instructions about what to do if they did discover something or why a parent would be the best the person to ask. Even if a parent was not involved I think instinctively many would bundle up and hold close the deceased remains of their loved ones upon discovery and perhaps even carrying them away or up from the place of discovery. Some may think it was JR was just trying to further contaminate evidence by taking JBR up the stairs I think alternatively grief could have also been responsible as it doesn’t cause us to think logically but emotionally as you still can’t comprehend that someone is well and truly gone or that you couldn’t protect them. In that case JR was not thinking like a LE official or investigator in terms of preserving the evidence and crime scene and as a civilian he is not supposed to. LE was obliged to take charge, they have the public’s trust to collect, maintain and preserve evidence and to conduct searches for a missing and/or murdered child, including one whose life was taken in their own home, because of their training, expertise and resources. Yet somehow JR and his friend were still asked to do an essential part of the job despite being civilians, with one under suspicion, and neither with any forensic or investigative training. LE said it was suspicious for JR went right to the basement where JBR’s remains were recovered however if it was one of the few places LE refused or neglected to look, it would make sense that if JR noticed, he would make a beeline down there just to rule it out for himself. Plus he admitted that he used the broken window to get inside his own house sometimes so if he did think an intruder broke in, it would make sense to him that the basement would be one of the entry points one would use. I think in terms of quality of the investigation LE bares should ask themselves that if they were supposed to lead the investigation why would they give the okay for anyone besides themselves, including two civilians, conduct their own search for JBR, especially when they were on location? How long were they on scene and yet no one from their team checked the basement? What happened to leaving no stone unturned and whether JR was guilty or not, the fact that he was credited with finding JBR and not the investigators, doesn’t look good for them.

John Ramsey has been pushing for a more in-depth investigation using newer DNA methods for years. He would not do that if he thought there was a chance that would incriminate Burke. We know there was male DNA on JBR's underwear that did not belong to anyone in her family. Yet there it was, and it's worth further investigation.

I agree. I am kind of surprise that LE does not appear too concerned with discovering the owner or identity of this unknown males’ DNA or why his DNA was found in her underwear, under her fingernails and long Johns. It does not seem like Dr. Henri Lee’s explanation of the DNA in the underwear incidentally originated a from factory worker or manufacturer and thus was unrelated can explain how that same DNA can then be shown to originate from the same unknown male that left DNA on her long Johns? If it was left incidentally by the factory worker or manufacturer who produced her underwear, how did it also get it on her long Johns and under nails? This is question is answered by forensic scientist Dr. Williamson in 2006 who stated the fact that the DNA from the underwear is consistent with that found on the long johns makes it far more likely that the DNA belongs to the perp than is the result of contamination from a factory or manufacturer.

Even in the case that LE possibly doesn’t believe this unknown male is responsible for JBR’s murder, shouldn’t they still wonder or be curious as to why this person left his DNA in places his person should not have touched or had access to, such as JBR’s underwear and long Johns? Or what type of interaction, if any, could have possibly occurred between them to lead to this unknown male’s DNA to become located under JBR’s fingernails? What type of interction or relationship did this person have with JBR, if any, and how far removed by person, neighborhood, activities is he or someone mutual between them, from her life? Is it possible to infer by the location of this unknown male’s DNA alone he may have sexually assaulted, or at least attempted, JBR and thereby, be indicative of a crime committed against her and one LE should could still investigate by doing further DNA and genealogical testing as suggested to identify the identity of this individual in hopes of bringing him in for further questioning or getting some type of profile on them?

BPD once said this is not a DNA case. Maybe. Could it help? Maybe, maybe not. IMO, until the results it yields has been analyzed, I think the usefulness of DNA testing shouldn’t be minimized or simply predetermined. Let the evidence or lack thereof it may yield speak for itself after all this is about bringing justice and closure in regards to JBR’s sexual assault and murder. DNA testing has helped solve other cold cases and bring justice to several families and counties so with that in mind there is no shame in LE using any and all avenues at their disposal, even if some are not as successful as others, in their pursuit of answers.

JonBenet Ramsey: What we know about the child beauty queen’s death, the botched investigation and decades of mystery | CNN

Whoever duct-taped JonBenét Ramsey’s mouth shut, bludgeoned the 6-year-old Colorado girl and strangled the child beauty queen in her own home has evaded capture for almost 28 years.

amp.cnn.com

Who killed 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenét Ramsey? The true story behind Netflix documentary

In December 1996, six-year-old beauty queen JonBenét Ramsey was found murdered in her family’s Boulder, Colorado home, sparking a decades-long mystery. A chilling ransom note, a botched police investigation, and DNA evidence pointing to an unknown male left more questions than answers. Now...

www.firstpost.com

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/13/us/jonbenet-ramsey-case/index.html

 

[Ponytale]

In the case or theory that if BR was responsible for JBR’s head wound, I can’t help but wonder why would the parents in this case be so quick to give up on their daughter and choose to stage a crime scene and further cause your daughter’s death, thereby murder her, by strangling her with a garrote?

We do not know what could have gone through their heads when it happened (assuming that it was an accident and everyone was in shock that it had happened). We do not know how quick that decision was. If they arrived at home at 21--22, the "accident" could have happened at 22-23. They had the whole night to do what they did. If the time before the head blow and her death (strangulation) is estimated to be up to 2 hours, then they had up to two hours to come up with a plan. I'd guess that they had many different options on their minds at that time. If there was only one of them who did the staging, then it was one person who could have thought of at least two different possibilities -call someone - the ambulance/pediatrician /lawyer /a friend /a priest or stage it somehow (and there were possibly many ideas how to do that too). If there were two people doing it together and changing ideas, we can easily multiply it all by 3. If you add even more persons, well... they had a lot to discuss and plan to find a mutually accepted plan of action. I'd bet it took them the whole night.

According to BPD, the head wound did not cause instantaneous death, with one detective estimating that JBR was strangled at least two hours after her TBI. That means that she was still alive and breathing in that time. Yes, she would have been unconscious but unconsciousness doesn’t mean dead. To them wouldn’t that mean that there was still a chance, however small, of saving her life after receiving such a devastating blow to the head? Neither one of them were doctors so on what basis did they have to judge that JBR would never recover, that the wounds were fatal or that such wounds could not be properly treated in the hospital or by emergency responders?

If her pulse and breathing were so weak and shallow that it wasn't detectable (especially if you are panicking) and they touched her scalp (knowing that she was hit hard on the head), they must have felt the fracture with their fingers. Feeling such a huge fracture and a missing peace in your daughters scull would be a total shock to any parent - I see why they could have believed that she was already dead. If they spent the 2 hours with her, knowing of the fracture and seeing no life signs from her for 2 hours, they had time to be "sure" that she was dead and think what to do next. And even if they did not think that she was dead - the fracture would have indicated to them that she was severely brain damaged, if not brain dead. They must have known how much time had passed already since the blow (maybe they found the fracture an hour after the blow) and that she has not received fast medical help - I see them thinking/discussing of raising a child with a brain damage for the rest of their life. I do not see them wanting that, especially Patsy who had such big plants with JB and her pageants. If saving her life would have meant to them that they possibly would forever care for a child in a vegetative state, I see them thinking of other possibilities too. But again, the SA might have been a more important factor for staging.

As the phone records are missing, they could have called a doctor to discuss about her condition. Or their friends who gave their "advice". We do not know. But there is a possibility that they could have had some help to come up with the staging plan.

It is all just my opinion.

In the preceding 3 years alone JBR has visited her regular pediatrician 30 times but in this case, another instance where she clearly needed medical attention, neither parent wants to turn to their local doctors or medical providers for help? If they felt like they could stage a crime scene and omit and lie to police to point towards an intruder, and away from Burke, couldn’t they have done the same if they had called 911 sooner and lied by stating that their daughter fell down the stairs or fell off the kitchen chair and hit her head and wasn’t responding to either one of them?

The injuries would not have aligned with those stories. If they knew of the head blow and felt it, they probably knew that it would not be missed by doctors. People who deal with injuries can find out how the injury occurred. She would have needed to have other injuries to go with the story of falling down. IMO

Why would it be easier for two parents to put a garrote around their living daughter’s neck over getting an ambulance? JR already had to bury one child in 1992, the hardest thing any parent would ever be ask to do, and PR was in remission after fighting for her own life and just beating cancer. After all that, with all their money and resources, the best solution they could think of in the case of BDI was not to fight as hard to preserve JBR’s life as hard as PR’s fought for hers, sickeningly sexually assault her with a paint brush, brutally strangle their own daughter, place blame on an intruder and later on, plan JBR’s funeral and just bury their own flesh and blood, despite how much it broke JR the first time he was forced to do it, according to friends and family?

I think this is where the SA comes to play. They needed something gruesome to be done with her if they went with the intruder theory. As they have stated in their shows and interviews - "a crazy person and a monster" did it to their daughter. They needed the evidence to match that. And I think it is all connected to the SA. IMO

How much trouble or what kind of trouble did they reasonably think BR would face if found responsible for striking and severely injuring JBR? Especially in the likelihood it was an accident in that BR did not intend to kill his sister and as a child at the age of 9, was not aware of his strength, behaved impulsively while in a fit of anger or rage, or was aware of the risk or repercussions of striking someone in the head or with a weapon or item like a flashlight? How were they certain the risks to BR would be worth the risks, loss and repercussions of carrying out JBR’s murder, staging of a crime scene and misleading the police all in order to protect him? Especially if on their own they lacked the ability to determine the likelihood of JBR’s survival on top of all this? It doesn’t seem likely that BR would have been charged or later sentenced for her murder, served time in the juvenile detention system or such? It is possible that the court would order him to be thoroughly evaluated and may determine that he get proper treatment for any emotional, mental or psychological disturbances that led up to JBR’s injuries and death in the case if BDI did it. However, that doesn’t mean that the Ramseys would permanently, if at all, lose their son or that the punishment would be so detrimental to BR’s life and safety, say like in some illogical hypothetical scenario he was charged, sent to adult prison as a juvenile and sentenced to the death penalty, that the only way his desperate parents could save him or preserve his life was by further robbing JBR’s of hers and any justice thereafter. IMO

We do not know what they thought, but I imagine they had a lot on their minds. Here are some hints of what they could have thought:

Kolar: “Patsy stated that she would have nothing left to live for if she lost Burke.”

Patsy in DOI: “The thought that the Department of Social Services might have considered removing Burke from our custody still horrifies me … Maybe Burke has been in an accident, and if we lost him, too, I couldn't live."

They had no real basis, evidence or lab tests available to them to determine whether or not JBR wounds would be fatal so I would like to think they thought through all these likelihoods and scenarios, which could have acted as deterrents, or they played some type of role in the case BR was responsible and in thinking of PR’s and JR’s decision-making if they did in fact actively end their daughter’s life, murder her and stage a cover up to protect their son.

It is all possible. They just had to do something as the clock was ticking. Maybe this decision was made because it was the one that they mutually agreed on. We do not know...

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Maybe the whole staging was not to protect their son, but to protect their secret (SA of JBR)
Dr Cyril Wecht thought the skull fracture occurred right before JBR death. There was 1.5 teaspoons of blood in her skull. That massive fracture should have caused much internal bleeding, but because she was near death when it happened (very little blood pressure) there was practically none.

Dr Wecht’s findings were originally the reason why I subscribed to JDI because they seemed to be the most sense, easy to understand or follow and aligned with Meyers’ autopsy findings. For example, like Meyers he too argued that the head wound and strangulation occurred closely in time together and further, that JBR was already dead or dying by the time she received the severe strike to her head, which was why only a teaspoon and a half of blood was found in her cranial vault since her heart had pretty much stopped bleeding. His theory I thought gave a good explanation for the way JBR wrist and neck were bound in that they were part of a sadistic or perverted sexual game her killer wanted to engage in and that her father was likely her assailant and killer as most child homicides are committed by a parent or step-parent in the home, the ransom note strangely referenced the father’s own previous bonus amount and JBR’s remains were found inside the home putting into question if an intruder was responsible why wouldn’t take her body with them and dispose of it elsewhere and what was even the point of the ransom note. Dr. Wecht’s theory also seemed to most easily fulfill Occam’s Razor by providing a motive ( the cover-up of subjecting JBR to sexual assault and predation), explain that perhaps the father did not intend to harm his daughter but lost control or passed the point of no return and chose to murder his kid to cover up his crimes of sexual assault and abuse against JBR, held JR solely responsible for JBR’s TBI and strangulation, and thus her murder, and suggested he probably later threatened or intimidated PR into going along with the coverup and staging of the crime scene. Additionally, I had my own bias for agreeing with Dr. Wecht’s JDI theory since I was introduced to his and Meyers’ findings first, already knew he was well-known brilliant forensic scientist and his work very reliable and didn’t really question it until I learned of some of the things Kolar brought up in his book.

For example, Kolar argued that in the GJ Dr. Lucy Rorke argued that JBR was likely strangled to death 45 minutes to two hours after her she suffered from her head wound. According to Kolar, Dr. Rorke stated evidence for this was the swelling and edema evidenced by JBR’s brain which would have taken time to develop while still alive. This contradicts Wecht’s findings from earlier in which the two assaults likely occurred closely together in time and that wound occurred right as JBR had died or was dying. The discrepancy in time also opens the door that PDI or BDI could also be plausible in that the same assailant would no longer have to be responsible for both assaults (unlike with Wecht’s findings earlier that shows feasibly one assailant was responsible for strangling and striking JBR practically at the same time). Since Rorke’s findings indicate JBR was struck first, it opens the door that the to detectives’ theories that she was strangled to cover up the physical assault. According to Kolar, Meyers may have missed the cerebral edema during his initial autopsy findings but conceded with Rorke’s findings and noted the cerebral edema as well and stated it would have taken some time before death for it to develop. Rorke also supposedly argued that had JBR had received treatment in a timely manner she may have been able to survive which led to my thoughts in my comments regarding BDI earlier. Of course, these claims come second-hand unfortunately from Kolar as Dr. Rorke never spoke about her findings publicly herself so how reliable or credible is up to the reader to decide for themselves. In addition, it appears Dr. Spitz also believes that the head wound was inflicted on JBR for some time before her death though it should be mentioned he was successfully sued for defamation by BR after he named him as promoted in a documentary that Burke struck JBR with a flashlight thus causing her head wound so take from that what you will.

Even though it seems like a small thing, I think just seeing how the time when the head wound was inflicted could rule in or out potential theories or how determinations of the reliability of DNA evidence according to Dr. Lee or Dr. Williams could seemingly cause a debate or divide among experts and investigators has led me to keep more of an open-mind in terms of IDI, RDI, PDI and JDI.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

If you are on board with the Mike Kane theory, RDI but not BR.

If you are on board with Kolar, BR did it. Kolar had seen and heard all GJ testimony too, just like Mike Kane, but came to a different conclusion. The experts from the CBS limited series believe BDI.Steve Thomas thought PDI. The housekeeper thought PDI. So who knows?
I remember reading BR was going to psychiatrist after the murder which could indicate medication.
Don’t know if the GJ subpoenaed those records or not.

I haven’t formed an absolute opinion other than JBR was the victim of prior SA. To me, that is ground zero.

The statute is really interesting. Hot button topic. Don’t think that would have been concerning BR though. His face was plastered all over the tabloids as a kid.
Always wondered how his school mates treated him? Kids can be so vicious.

I agree with the SA. Where it isn't clear obviously is who or was there more than one.
JR did not stand out to me until I start watching his interviews. He feels malignant but that may just be from years of being deceptive.
If the stories that were reported are true, it sounds as though JAR hated his little sister.
BR, if responsible, I feel most likely suffered abuse himself. I'm repeating myself here, but I had a son the same age. Boy Scouts and churches had no shortage of pedos hiding in plain sight at the time. I had an attorney friend who had many SA clients mostly from church.
As one Podcaster mentions, they even but a warning in the BS of America handbook regarding SA.
There was a transcript from Linda Arndt that was only 2-3 sentences that I believe she got from the school and stated that he had been abused. It didn't say what type of abuse. I have tried to find it again and never have.
If it is accurate, it means he probably was receiving help and there was a reason the school was made aware.
I wish I could find it.

I'm sure kids were brutal . Even if not, the questions probably never stopped.
I do have some doubts as to how well BR was able to read the room though.
Just days after JBR died, he recounted with such excitement and downright glee that the press were there to see him. Him! I have witnessed a lot of children lose loved ones, their response were more sadness and grief then " " hey, look what I can do!"
It bothers me that where ever BR was mentally at the time, it was very important for him to be front and center while his sister lay dead.

I do wonder how this makes BR feel now. The only glimpse we have into BR as an adult is the Dr Phil interview. Who ever made the decision for him to do that interview did him a great disservice. I wonder if the Netflix documentary is an attempt to fix that fiasco?