Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[GRT]

The Grand Jury is a trial, Thr jurors are vetted and chosen. This jury was presented with both sides of evidence.

RSBM

Now I'm starting to understand why you're taking that position. You don't know what a GJ does.

• The defendant(s) didn't get a chance to present their side of the story. That only happens in a real trial.
• The proceedings were conducted in secret.
• A GJ is NOT tasked with determining guilt or innocence.
• The GJ is heavily weighted in favor of the prosecution.
• There is no adversarial debate.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

A few reasons.

• FW had the keys to the Ramsey's home, so there would be no sign of a break-in.
• FW changed JBR's panties and (according to some here, I didn't read it) even wiped her after she used the bathroom.
• FW was in the basement room where she was found before JR found her body--FW was all throughout the basement. Yet he says the body was not there when he looked.
• FW ran up the stairs and hollered "Call 911" but he knew law enforcement was already up there. That was odd to yell.
• FW went back downstairs after JR carried her body up, and he picked up the duct tape that had been on her mouth and put it on the blanket that was left on the basement floor. Then, he picked up glass shards from the broken window and put them on the sill. He did those things after the officer upstairs told him to guard the door to the basement so no one would go there. Did he know that his fingerprints might be on the tape/glass shards, so he said he touched them after the fact?
• Then, there's his freaky behavior toward his house hosts in Georgia. That was beyond the pale and signifies he was nearing a breakdown. MOO
• Yes, the BPD did say he wasn't a suspect (they didn't actually "clear" him), but that was in response to his weird letter to the editor and his threats to sue the police department.
• Then there's the ransom note. Fleet would likely know JR's bonus amount because they were best friends and (until the murder) shared virtually everything. Additionally, the flailing syntax in the ransom note isn't a whole lot different from the syntax in Fleet's letter to the editor.
• And why did he sue to have his own GJ testimony released? Did he think just because he told his story under oath that it was proof of honesty?

John Ramsey has indicated that he thinks his child's killer was among his "inner circle" of friends.

When you have friends like FW -- who needs enemies?

It makes perfect sense. He has also seemed to fade into the ether too since his letter and Grand Jury stuff. He's doing what John should be doing if John had done it...living a quiet life.
I may not be completely swayed, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. The only place it loses me is there is absolutely no evidence of him on her body. There is however plenty of John and Patsy. But those fibers could be from them after the body was found, and they were holding her close to them. Could his be the DNA on her...I assume they have checked DNA against their inner circle friends. As most cases like this are not strangers.

 

[AddieBoo]

It makes perfect sense. He has also seemed to fade into the ether too since his letter and Grand Jury stuff. He's doing what John should be doing if John had done it...living a quiet life.
I may not be completely swayed, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. The only place it loses me is there is absolutely no evidence of him on her body. There is however plenty of John and Patsy. But those fibers could be from them after the body was found, and they were holding her close to them. Could his be the DNA on her...I assume they have checked DNA against their inner circle friends. As most cases like this are not strangers.

Fleet White was cleared by BPD.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Fleet White was cleared by BPD.

<modsnip>How did they clear FW?
The BPD couldn't even process the house, and take charge of the premise that day. Letting the Ramseys and company run around a crime scene all day. I doubt they could clear a ham sandwich.

 

[AddieBoo]

This is a blatant misunderstanding of the whole process. The Grand Jury is not a trial. It does not issue a verdict. It simply tells the prosecutors if they can even proceed to the actual trial to get an actual verdict. It would be a weird, Kafka-esque institution if it actually was a trial and the true bill was considered a verdict.



Lou Smit.making a presentation one day out of the prosecution's year-long show does not "both sides" make. The defense had no knowledge of the evidence presented by the prosecution and no way to counter it. In what bizarre dystopia would that be considered a trial?



Towards a trial, not towards a verdict.



To continue with a trial. And only on four of eighteen charges, and not the main ones. After that the prosecutor made the correct call that the case couldn't be won at trial - as was agreed on by his fellow prosecutor Morrissey and the interviewed Grand Juror.



They just didn't sign the majority of the charges, including the main ones.

The Grand Jury had every opportunity to issue “No True Bill”
The didn’t.

<modsnip - personalizing>

The four indictments handed down that named John and Patsy Ramsey responsible for the murder of their child by probable cause. And…they know the killer,

The Grand Jury is a trial, with no resulting, absolute, (pending appeal) verdict.

You keep quoting Morrissey, but Kane was the lead and has publicly stated on more then one occasion, that the Ramsey’s are guilty. And BPD has never cleared Patsy, John or Burke Ramsey as suspects.

There were No True Bills

 

[AddieBoo]

Maybe read what was being asked and answered before chiming in. I am trying to understand someone else's theory. A big pet peeve of mine is those who don't converse. Their opinion is the only opinion there is on the planet. If this case was that cut and dry, it wouldn't be unsolved.
But since you want to make this claim, let's have this conversation. How did they clear FW?
The BPD couldn't even process the house, and take charge of the premise that day. Letting the Ramseys and company run around a crime scene all day. I doubt they could clear a ham sandwich.

Well it starts with evidence…

There is a widespread effort to associate Fleet Whites with this crime. But should you want to understand Fleet White, first understand the base facts of the case. Then find his two open letters published in the Denver Post authored by Fleet White.

FYI: Fleet White testified to the Grand Jury. He sued, unsuccessfully, to have his testimony released to the public.
He had exposed the corruption and deceit of how this case was handled through his open letters published in the press.
Now across social media the Fleet White trolls are out in force.
And the only reason that is, is information.
MOO

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Well it starts with evidence…

There is a widespread effort to associate Fleet Whites with this crime. But should you want to understand Fleet White, first understand the base facts of the case. Then find his two open letters published in the Denver Post authored by Fleet White.

FYI: Fleet White testified to the Grand Jury. He sued, unsuccessfully, to have his testimony released to the public.
He had exposed the corruption and deceit of how this case was handled through his open letters published in the press.
Now across social media the Fleet White trolls are out in force.
And the only reason that is, is information.
MOO

What evidence clears Fleet? Source from the BPD? None of this other stuff actually clears Fleet White. <modsnip - bickering>

 

[ShadyLady]

Hard not to talk about DNA without talking about JR since he is the one that is pushing it again.

The letter attacked JR personally, maybe that was just one of the reasons for the letter. JR's previous actions would be the motive for the murder, not the physical murder, which I still think was was done by PR in an uncontrolled rage. Handwriting=PR. And grammar. And still think motive was PR losing control of JBR and jealousy.

Ramsey's were more concern about protecting themselves than to find the murderer. Because they knew what had happened and had to protect their image. imo

I read all the books, and plenty of podcasts. I dont think the Ramseys were their public image. Especially Patsy. Don't think it was a happy marriage, read Housekeeper's book.

JR probably knew exactly were JBR ended up, and with Fleet far behind him, he had to be the first to find JBR. (First room he went to, and explanation of broken window).

 

[Slebby]

As ACCESSORIES to murder in the first degree. <modsnip> That leaves open who the killer is. As in the jury did not put themselves in a position to say it was definitely the Ramseys or another person, but the Ramseys PROBABLY involved. NOT definitely. I think they did leave open a loophole for it to be a random person, but the Ramseys failed to protect. The Ramseys are not even there to face their accusers. That is why the results are supposed to be secret.

YES, the decision not to bring forth the bills was done in a sneaky way, but they have to play the long game.

When I read your posts about the grand jury, I read it as you value the grand jury as a full trial because of the POTENTIAL for what is there to be furthered into full justice. But right now those bills and testimony are inventoried. They are only worth what they are separately for now, and if you don't collect EVIDENCE (to prove or disclaim) there is no added value.

You are referring to the Ramseys as if they are one person. The killer could be PR, JR or BR.
It is my belief the GJ did the best they could on evidence presented which indicated R involvement in a coverup and staging (eg RN written by PR) as well as fiber evidence. What they couldn’t say for sure is which R was the actual killer. That, imo, is why they were only able to issue true bills to reflect that reality, they were unsure which R killed JBR.
I also do not believe the killer was anyone other than a R.
IMHO

 

[CloudedTruth]

Exactly. From what has been said they concluded it was a Ramsey, John or Patsy. What they were not clear on (and hoped it would be made clear at trial) was which parent was responsible for what.

 

[ShadyLady]

You are referring to the Ramseys as if they are one person. The killer could be PR, JR or BR.
It is my belief the GJ did the best they could on evidence presented which indicated R involvement in a coverup and staging (eg RN written by PR) as well as fiber evidence. What they couldn’t say for sure is which R was the actual killer. That, imo, is why they were only able to issue true bills to reflect that reality, they were unsure which R killed JBR.
I also do not believe the killer was anyone other than a R.
IMHO

Read that there was an animal hair on the tape placed on JBR's mouth. Patsy had boots that matched the hair. Then tape roll was not found....hmmmm.

 

[AddieBoo]

It makes perfect sense. He has also seemed to fade into the ether too since his letter and Grand Jury stuff. He's doing what John should be doing if John had done it...living a quiet life.
I may not be completely swayed, but it's not out of the realm of possibility. The only place it loses me is there is absolutely no evidence of him on her body. There is however plenty of John and Patsy. But those fibers could be from them after the body was found, and they were holding her close to them. Could his be the DNA on her...I assume they have checked DNA against their inner circle friends. As most cases like this are not strangers.

Fleet and Pricilla White were cleared as suspects by BPD.
The first time was by Chief Koby(BPD) 4/97

The second time (9/08) that status was reconfirmed in a letter to Fleet and Pricilla White from the infamous Mary Lacy, stating the Whites were not suspects and were viewed as key witnesses. Her letter was in response to the smear campaigns that were directed towards Fleet White and his family.

There is lots of good factual information about Fleet White and this case. I highly recommend reading his open letters for perspective and ….
Inspiration. He has paid a high price for his association with John Ramsey. But maybe all those notes he is reputed to have been writing down at the crime scene etc were of interest to the Grand Jury.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Read that there was an animal hair on the tape placed on JBR's mouth. Patsy had boots that matched the hair. Then tape roll was not found....hmmmm.

Patsy had boots that were reportedly lined with beaver fur. Police wanted to test them, the Ramseys never handed them over. There’s an interesting theory about the tape possibly having come from one of the American Girl dolls.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Fleet and Pricilla White were cleared as suspects by BPD.
The first time was by Chief Koby(BPD) 4/97

The second time (9/08) that status was reconfirmed in a letter to Fleet and Pricilla White from the infamous Mary Lacy, stating the Whites were not suspects and were viewed as key witnesses. Her letter was in response to the smear campaigns that were directed towards Fleet White and his family.

There is lots of good factual information about Fleet White and this case. I highly recommend reading his open letters for perspective and ….
Inspiration. He has paid a high price for his association with John Ramsey. But maybe all those notes he is reputed to have been writing down at the crime scene etc were of interest to the Grand Jury.

Keep in mind John and Patsy were also exonerated by Mary Lacy. So if it works to exonerated Fleet then it works to exonerate them.
I think Fleet has been able to live a quiet and peaceful life for the last 20 years. Granted I don't think Fleet did it. I want to understand other people's theories.

 

[oceanverde]

No it isn't, not that fast. Most parents are beyond grief stricken and numb upon realizing that their child is gone. They can hardly form a coherent thought.

If my child was found murdered in my home, I would hire an attorney immediately. Period. It is not unusual. It's only unusual to people who think that people shouldn't hire attorneys if they are innocent.

 

[oceanverde]

For the people who are saying that it was a wise decision to immediately hire attorneys, that isn't the point that was being addressed. The question was did JR act like a normal, grieving parent that day.
And I say, no, he did not.

There is no "Normal" for a grieving parent. Anyone who thinks that is just clueless.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

IMO, what happened that night started out with an emotional outburst of rage. That was the head blow, but it was not done with the intent to kill. It's what followed that turned a horrible accident into murder.

I respect Kolar and the work he did on this case. His book is presented in a less emotional way than some others, with an eye for examining the evidence and facts of the case from a less personal point of view. It is very well researched. That said, he did form an opinion that differed from the opinion of others which includes what we have been led to believe was the opinion of the majority of the grand jurors. And that is that the underage juvenile in this case was not involved.

I think the very fact that the indictments were linked to murder in the first degree is the clearest indication that the GJ found from the evidence they saw and the testimony they heard that they believed it was one of the parents, aided in the cover up and resulting actual ending of JonBenet's life by the other parent.

One thing that BR said caught my attention was when he said his mom was going psycho. Was he being cheeky OR did mom go psycho often?

 

[Chypre]

IMO, what happened that night started out with an emotional outburst of rage. That was the head blow, but it was not done with the intent to kill. It's what followed that turned a horrible accident into murder.

I respect Kolar and the work he did on this case. His book is presented in a less emotional way than some others, with an eye for examining the evidence and facts of the case from a less personal point of view. It is very well researched. That said, he did form an opinion that differed from the opinion of others which includes what we have been led to believe was the opinion of the majority of the grand jurors. And that is that the underage juvenile in this case was not involved.

I think the very fact that the indictments were linked to murder in the first degree is the clearest indication that the GJ found from the evidence they saw and the testimony they heard that they believed it was one of the parents, aided in the cover up and resulting actual ending of JonBenet's life by the other parent.

I've just begun Kolar's book. I like the neutral tone so far. It's on the Kindle Unlimited plan.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I've just begun Kolar's book. I like the neutral tone so far. It's on the Kindle Unlimited plan.

I think Kolar’s book is the most factual and least biased. He presents everything very well and without emotion.

 

[AddieBoo]

Keep in mind John and Patsy were also exonerated by Mary Lacy. So if it works to exonerated Fleet then it works to exonerated them. So I guess that takes care of those 3 suspects...
I think Fleet has been able to live a quiet and peaceful life for the 20 years. Granted I don't think Fleet did it. I want to understand other people's theories.

You may want to update your information on the “exoneration” by Mary Lacy.
It’s an interesting piece of the puzzle, and one example of unprofessional bias.
MOO