Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[Slebby]

So, what do you think of the Chris Wolf handwriting analysis?

Also, keep in mind that the BPD never accepted Cina's analysis because their own expert said that while PR could not be eliminated, her score was 4-1/2. She needed a 5 to be eliminated. She received a low similarity from the police expert.

Cina wasn't certified in handwriting analysis, and that wasn't even her specialty.

I will look that up. I’m a relatively recent returnee to the JBR discussions, and I have forgotten a lot of what I once knew. I’m rereading my JBR books, and reviewing old threads here. This is why I use cautious language, like “it is my belief”, “iirc”, “my opinion”. I believe that words matter.

I think it would be helpful to the objectivity of our discussions of the handwriting if we could compile a comprehensive list of all analyses done on the handwriting, both that in favour of PR as the writer as well as not. I recently read here about other suspects whose handwriting is a closer match than PR, but when I asked for a source, none was given.

I am curious, GRT, objectively, if you look at the handwriting comparisons, do you see a compelling resemblance between PR and RN?

*I am really desperate for objective conversation, and not argument over theories, as though we are sticking up for our sports team*

 

[GRT]

The last couple of posts were not about the handwriting Experts credentials , they were about seeing the side by side comparisons with our own eyes. The question put to you was if you had the opportunity to view the side by side and see the identical matches?.

Ill go ahead and post all the credentialed experts that concluded Patsy wrote the note.

I don't even attempt to second guess the experts because I'm not trained to see what they see, so my opinion is worthless in that regard.

My point is that we've had many handwriting experts and wannabe experts analyze the ransom note against several suspects' handwriting, coming up with wide-ranging results.

The only analysis that really matters is the one obtained by the department's expert. And we know that Patsy's handwriting didn't eliminate her but that it was low similarity.

 

[GRT]

I will look that up. I’m a relatively recent returnee to the JBR discussions, and I have forgotten a lot of what I once knew. I’m rereading my JBR books, and reviewing old threads here. This is why I use cautious language, like “it is my belief”, “iirc”, “my opinion”. I believe that words matter.

I think it would be helpful to the objectivity of our discussions of the handwriting if we could compile a comprehensive list of all analyses done on the handwriting, both that in favour of PR as the writer as well as not. I recently read here about other suspects whose handwriting is a closer match than PR, but when I asked for a source, none was given.

I am curious, GRT, objectively, if you look at the handwriting comparisons, do you see a compelling resemblance between PR and RN?

*I am really desperate for objective conversation, and not argument over theories, as though we are sticking up for our sports team*

Thanks for sharing that. It's always challenging to determine where a poster is coming from.

But again, I'm not going to take a stab at analyzing the handwriting. I'm nowhere near qualified. I prefer to discuss what has been presented by those who were involved.

My gut feeling tells me none of the Ramseys had anything to do with JBR's murder. And, I don't think JR would be pushing so hard to have the DNA analyzed with new technology if he thought for a second it might incriminate him.

 

[Ponytale]

*I am really desperate for objective conversation, and not argument over theories, as though we are sticking up for our sports team*

I totally agree with you. It unfortunately seems like some here are only up for confrontations. Because of that, I have learnt who to reply and who to not. Sadly, a friendly discussion of sharing and respecting each others opinions is not acceptable to all.

 

[CloudedTruth]

T

The ransom note was left before he fled the scene. He didn’t put the ransom note out before he killed her. He wrote it before the murder while the ramseys were at the whites Christmas party then after he killed her he went back upstairs, left the note and fled. There are lots of attacks from men hiding in the house for hours prior to carrying out their attacks. The ransom note was designed to give John false hope, to control the aftermath and taunt John. I haven’t found any evidence linking John or patsy to the murder. There’s lots of forensic evidence suggesting an intruder it. Of course it’s a possibility John or patsy did it but it’s not probable. Patsy went on tv days after the murder medicated to her eye balls! She never slipped up once while under the influence of powerful sedatives. Unless there’s concrete evidence pointing to the parents, I don’t believe they had any involvement in the murder. There’s only theories and speculation like Burke hit her over the head and the parents finished her off and staged the scene. There’s absolutely no evidence to back that up. Absolutely none!

Unless you were there, you have no way of knowing what the sequence was of what happened with the note, etc. that night. This is speculation and your opinion only.

The actual forensic evidence of an intruder is very slim. The intruder theory was presented to the Grand Jury and they rejected it.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, as are we all. We can say the same thing that you said here....unless there is concrete evidence pointing to an intruder, which there is not, it's only speculation and theories.

With regard to the ransom note, handwriting experts at the CBI ruled out John Ramsey as the author of the note, but they could not rule Patsy out. There are plenty of well qualified handwriting experts / graphologists who have determined Patsy is the likely author of the note. That Patsy pretended in interviews not to recognize what was known to be her own handwriting was pure theatrics on her part.

Here is a partial list of experts who have examined the note and believe Patsy to have been the author. They are all well respected experts.

Gideon Epstein - Forensic Document Examiner
David S. Liebman - Certified Document Examiner
Tom Miller - Attorney, Court Qualified Expert Witness in Questioned Documents
Chet Ubowski - Colorado Bureau of Investigation Handwriting Expert
Cina L. Wong - Certified Document Examiner
Larry F. Ziegler - Forensic Document Examiner
Michelle Dresbold - Graduate of the United States Secret Service's Advanced Document Examination Training Program

 

[CrimeTheorist]

What is strange is the experts said PR was a 4.5/5 in terms of her not writing the "ransom note" but I think around 70 people were cleared, but not her. I'm not sure if that even makes sense. If she was the only 1 out of 70 people that couldn't be cleared than you would think that her handwriting would most likely be closer to a match than that, No? Unless you had 69 people who wrote nothing at all like the ransom note.

Does anyone know if the handwriting experts consider, when giving a score, if someone is trying to disguise their handwriting? Like maybe the 4.5/5 was based on just looking at the "ransom note" writing without considering any deception when it was being written?

Also, when PR had to sit and write handwriting samples for the police, how does that work? Was she monitored and given a length of time to complete it or was it like a lot of things in this case and done whenever the Ramsey's felt like it?

 

[Ponytale]

What is strange is the experts said PR was a 4.5/5 in terms of her not writing the "ransom note" but I think around 70 people were cleared, but not her. I'm not sure if that even makes sense. If she was the only 1 out of 70 people that couldn't be cleared than you would think that her handwriting would most likely be closer to a match than that, No? Unless you had 69 people who wrote nothing at all like the ransom note.

Does anyone know if the handwriting experts consider, when giving a score, if someone is trying to disguise their handwriting? Like maybe the 4.5/5 was based on just looking at the "ransom note" writing without considering any deception when it was being written?

Also, when PR had to sit and write handwriting samples for the police, how does that work? Was she monitored and given a length of time to complete it or was it like a lot of things in this case and done whenever the Ramsey's felt like it?

Well, we know that she gave 5 handwriting samples. Her lawyers were present. It is stated that police had problems with getting satisfactory samples because she appeared to be heavily medicated. Some took a few hours and some more.

Quoted from Daily Camera (Another writing sample sought):
“The biggest reason (police) ask for another exemplar is they suspect that the person has alternate handwriting styles or handwriting features that are not showing up in the exemplar,” Kelley said. “Taking 15 or 20 exemplars doesn’t guarantee that they’ll capture all of the person’s handwriting characteristics. Sometimes you have to have repeated writing sessions with them on different dates in order to capture those alternating styles.”

“People often think that we need nice writing to compare, so they write legibly,” she said. “We’re actually looking for their normal handwriting, so we may need to ask for more samples to get that. And we need to get off-hand writing samples – samples from the hand the person doesn’t normally write with – to make sure the person isn’t ambidextrous and you have the right exemplar.”

I made a comment some time ago, that, IMO, only handwriting samples that should be used as a bases of conclusion should be the one(s) that the person has written before the crime.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

I don't think they were saying exactly that -- but they did hand down true bills on accessory and child abuse that seemed to indicate that the GJ felt as though the Ramseys put JBR in a dangerous situation that made it possible for her killer to gain access to her.

The stories put out by the tabloids about JBR and the Ramseys focused on how her parents were sexualizing her by dolling her up and putting her in pageants. The jurors could not escape all that sensationalism, and I think that played a role in handing down true bills for things other than murder.

DA Hunter knew enough about the law that he understood those charges would never go anywhere, but it let the GJ off the hook, so to speak.

The saddest part is that a family who loved their daughter very much was unfairly tried in the court of public opinion--and it destroyed them. I would be willing to bet that the grief and stress played a role in Patsy's cancer returning.

All MOO

In the 13 months that the GJ convened, I would venture to say they were presented with enough evidence to overshadow anything That Star magazine or National Enquirer had to say. Even as a young person at the time, I knew a lot was fabricated in those types of rags and took them with a grain of salt. They were not were you went for factual information.
I think you insult the peoples intelligence who sat on the jury by insinuating their decision was made due to the influence of tabloids.
After hearing 13 months of testimony , is that how you would form your opinion? Would your mind be closed because you already made up your mind? If the answer is yes, then you are assuming every single juror thinks like you do . My guess is they based their opinion on the evidence that was presented before them and the inconsistencies that did not make sense then or now. There were many witnesses called to testify. Their own friends ( others besides FW) caught them in outright lies . The police had hours of interterviews and I'm sure we don't know the half of it. We are not privy to what they heard.
How many hours of testimony did they hear in 13 months?

 

[CloudedTruth]

What is strange is the experts said PR was a 4.5/5 in terms of her not writing the "ransom note" but I think around 70 people were cleared, but not her. I'm not sure if that even makes sense. If she was the only 1 out of 70 people that couldn't be cleared than you would think that her handwriting would most likely be closer to a match than that, No? Unless you had 69 people who wrote nothing at all like the ransom note.

Does anyone know if the handwriting experts consider, when giving a score, if someone is trying to disguise their handwriting? Like maybe the 4.5/5 was based on just looking at the "ransom note" writing without considering any deception when it was being written?

Also, when PR had to sit and write handwriting samples for the police, how does that work? Was she monitored and given a length of time to complete it or was it like a lot of things in this case and done whenever the Ramsey's felt like it?

According to the Vanity Fair article, there were 74 people who submitted handwriting samples, and only Patsy's set off alarm bells with similarities. IIRC, at the time handwriting analysis were being done, there were only a few of the hired experts that used the 5 point scale because it isn't considered accurate or particularly reliable.

Patsy gave 5 handwriting examples, at least one of which was done with her left hand after it became known that she was ambidextrous.

As to the other questions, I do not know the answers and agree it would be very interesting to know under what circumstances she had to provide her samples.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

So, what do you think of the Chris Wolf handwriting analysis?

Also, keep in mind that the BPD never accepted Cina's analysis because their own expert said that while PR could not be eliminated, her score was 4-1/2. She needed a 5 to be eliminated. She received a low similarity from the police expert.

Cina wasn't certified in handwriting analysis, and that wasn't even her specialty.

Donald Foster, a Vassar College professor and handwriting expert who linked Ted Kaczynski to the Unabomber manifesto, was called in to help investigate the JonBenét Ramsey case. Foster's analysis of the ransom note led him to believe that Patsy Ramsey wrote it.

Explanation

• Foster was hired by the FBI to prove that Kaczynski wrote the Unabomber manifesto.
  
  
• Foster based his analysis of the ransom note on its punctuation and indentation styles.
  
  
• Foster's statements were to be heard before a grand jury in 1999.
  
  
• Foster's statements were controversial because he reportedly wrote Patsy Ramsey a letter of his own six months before helping Boulder Police.
  

Other forensic specialists brought in for the JonBenét Ramsey case included:

• Werner Spitz
• James R. Fitzgerald, a former FBI agent
• Laura Richards, a former Scotland Yard criminal behavior analyst
• Stan Burke, a former FBI agent

Read JonBenét Ramsey Ransom Letter in Full | Crime News
Dec 3, 2024 — Investigators called on some of the nation's most notable handwriting experts.

• James R. Fitzgerald, a former FBI agent also solved the Unibomberr case.

There were plenty of renowned qualified people on the case.

 

[GRT]

In the 13 months that the GJ convened, I would venture to say they were presented with enough evidence to overshadow anything That Star magazine or National Enquirer had to say. Even as a young person at the time, I knew a lot was fabricated in those types of rags and took them with a grain of salt. They were not were you went for factual information.
I think you insult the peoples intelligence who sat on the jury by insinuating their decision was made due to the influence of tabloids.
After hearing 13 months of testimony , is that how you would form your opinion? Would your mind be closed because you already made up your mind? If the answer is yes, then you are assuming every single juror thinks like you do . My guess is they based their opinion on the evidence that was presented before them and the inconsistencies that did not make sense then or now. There were many witnesses called to testify. Their own friends ( others besides FW) caught them in outright lies . The police had hours of interterviews and I'm sure we don't know the half of it. We are not privy to what they heard.
How many hours of testimony did they hear in 13 months?

I would never insult them. Their service was commendable.

But, we still have the fact that they did not indict on murder charges but only on "child abuse" by extension and on "accessory."

The DA declined to pursue those lesser charges.

Consider the juror who broke his silence; he said he felt there was evidence to indict (not for murder) but that there wasn't enough evidence to get a conviction. That's the same thing DA Hunter said.

The GJ did its job, and they are to be respected for that. But for 13 months they were under a lot of pressure. They couldn't go to a grocery store without seeing JonBenet's face plastered on half a dozen tabloids. That doesn't mean they read the tabloids and believed them, but it does mean they were unduly subjected to a high level of exposure.

Were they making a judgment call based on media coverage that Patsy put JBR in pageants?

Absolutely.

Look at what else the juror said:

“I saw that there was a little girl dressed up with, in my opinion, a sexual persona, and it disgusted me. And I turned off the TV,” the juror told “20/20.”

They had to deal with the tabloids and the media--and it had an effect.

 

[GRT]

As to the other questions, I do not know the answers and agree it would be very interesting to know under what circumstances she had to provide her samples.

RSBM

I don't know about the circumstances surrounding all the samples she submitted, but for at least two, she had to copy the ransom note, verbatim. She cried and cried throughout both. Can you imagine being forced to rewrite sentences that talked about torturing and beheading your child?

But, those samples were sanctioned and requested by LE. The other "experts" in the Wolf vs Ramsey case had only small snippets that the housekeeper said were written by PR.

Fitzgerald, by the way, is a smart guy, but he told the FBI from the onset that he was not a forensic handwriting expert.

 

[GRT]

There were plenty of renowned qualified people on the case.

RSBM

Very true. But, there was never enough evidence to charge them with child abuse or accessory, much less murder.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

I would never insult them. Their service was commendable.

But, we still have the fact that they did not indict on murder charges but only on "child abuse" by extension and on "accessory."

The DA declined to pursue those lesser charges.

Consider the juror who broke his silence; he said he felt there was evidence to indict (not for murder) but that there wasn't enough evidence to get a conviction. That's the same thing DA Hunter said.

The GJ did its job, and they are to be respected for that. But for 13 months they were under a lot of pressure. They couldn't go to a grocery store without seeing JonBenet's face plastered on half a dozen tabloids. That doesn't mean they read the tabloids and believed them, but it does mean they were unduly subjected to a high level of exposure.

Were they making a judgment call based on media coverage that Patsy put JBR in pageants?

Absolutely.

Look at what else the juror said:

“I saw that there was a little girl dressed up with, in my opinion, a sexual persona, and it disgusted me. And I turned off the TV,” the juror told “20/20.”

They had to deal with the tabloids and the media--and it had an effect.

I think you are leaving out the second True Bill which lends more to them just putting her in pageants.

unlawfully, knowingly, and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death,

I dont believe this is about putting your child in pageants but about shielding a family member from being charged with 1st degree murder.

 

[GRT]

Here is a partial list of experts who have examined the note and believe Patsy to have been the author. They are all well respected experts.

Gideon Epstein - Forensic Document Examiner

Thank you for your list. I wanted to point out Epstein because of a few interesting things in his deposition.

Epstein testified there were "strong similarities between the samples and ransom note, but he was clear that it wasn't definite.

And, to show how much disagreement there was between the experts, he also said this:

10 A. "You might be interested to know
11 that I spoke with handwriting expert Paul A.
12 Osborn, who is, as you probably already know,
13 the grandson of Albert S. and son of Albert D.
14 Osborn. He refuses to touch the Ramsey case
15 with a ten-foot pole. His reasons: He knows
16 the handwriting experts who gave their reports
17 to the defense team and to CBI -- four in all.
18 According to Osborn these experts are supposedly
19 top of their field. (He won't give me their
20 names) with impeccable ethical credentials.
21 Their verdict: the similarities between Patsy
22 and the ransom note writer's handwriting is at
23 the very lowest of the spectrum. There is
24 little or no basis for a match."

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t believe anything written in Linda Hoffman Pufh’s book. I don’t believe John went off at patsy for being a lousy housekeeper. But if he did that means nothing. They’d been married for 20 years, I’m pretty sure he knew exactly what patsy was like. You can’t judge what state their house was in all the time based on a few Christmas photos and a crime scene video. Whose house doesn’t get messy over Christmas. As for John having to be told by friends to be more supportive of patsy during her cancer treatment, I take that with a grain of salt. Often people will say anything to make money. Often people invent stories to make money. I don’t think gossip proves anything about the ramseys private life. I prefer to stick to the facts of the case.

In fact, i just wanted to say that thinking of who else could have written the RN and killed JBR, it is not only RDI. The servants are within the circle, too.

My impression of Patsy. She was not dumb at all. Her hygiene habits i don't know about, how her illness changed her i don't know about but some things sound logical from her life experience. She comes across as pragmatic. Pageants and being “miss something” once helped herself secure a successful marriage. I simply view JBRs pageants less as Patsy living vicariously through JBR's life, and more as putting her daughter on the only track known to Patsy to secure a successful life. Today, JBR would be viewed as a smart girl and put into a STEM school. In 1995, 30 years ago, she was viewed as a beautiful girl and signed into pageants. Time has changed.

Decades ago I had the experience of being the target of pen-poison letters. RN writers I view as belonging to the same group as the ones who write pen-poison letters. Here is what I noticed:

- the people who produce them usually want to scare you. For this, they'd usually want you to think that they know you very well, almost to show that they are "near and observing" (IRL, they may not know you well at all. They put personal information in the beginning and it takes you a while to see that the "information" they have is, essentially, fragmented. Look at the very end to guess what they really want.)

So coming to the Ramseys RN. I don't know why it was written, but i don't believe Patsy would put $ 118 K in it. This points straight at the house. But could the servants and housekeepers know about the bonus sum? Because for them, it makes sense to point at the Rs. And 118K does it better than 100K.

I read some excerpts of Linda Hoffman Pugh's book. It is either some delusion, or the person writing it is some sexual psychopath. JMO. Anyhow, if the person who signed the book by her name ever worked for the Rs, one could only feel sorry for them.

But then I thought, how often do we hear/read of frequent scandals between nannies and the fathers of the family, au pairs and the fathers of the family. What i observed in my youth in my friend's family was not far brom Bedlam, either. It has nothing to do with the age or looks of the housekeeper. All that is needed is horrible envy towards the mother.

Patsy was married to the "businessman of the year" with all the perks of it. But Patsy is weak with stage IV cancer, has an older child with "issues" and the daughter whom they all seem to love. Maybe the housekeeper wanted to be another Mrs. Ramsey, or had a daughter who she thought could, or another servant had similar plans?

Losing a child often leads to a divorce. And JBR was the glue that held the family together. Only here, everything was executed to messy that it brought the Ramseys closer.

JMO - the housekeepers and such could write a RN, too.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Respectfully, IMO I don’t think it is possible to declare what evidence exists (or does not exist) to charge or prosecute anyone in this case. Yet. Those documents IIUC remain mostly under seal. And they are not to my knowledge available to assess. IIRC only select excerpts from the GJ information or bills are available publicly.

Perhaps further investigation is needed IMO. And I would like to see the Boulder DA office conduct in this entire case examined. Fully and thoroughly. It is unfortunate that investigative journalists in CO and the Boulder area do not appear IMO to be examining all of these matters.

There is another WS thread on the Ahmaud Arbery case in Georgia. Details on the latest apparent interference of a prosecutor in that case to be prosecuted for their actions are at this link:

Post in thread 'GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former LEO and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 *Arrests* #6'
GUILTY - GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former LEO and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 *Arrests* #6

I can only hope something similar is done in this JBR case. MOO

 

[GRT]

I think you are leaving out the second True Bill which lends more to them just putting her in pageants.

unlawfully, knowingly, and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death,

I dont believe this is about putting your child in pageants but about shielding a family member from being charged with 1st degree murder.

To be sure, this is the "accessory" true bill, but as DA Hunter said, the GJ didn't have a clue as to who killed JBR, they just felt both Patsy and John were accessories after the fact. But, the BPD had already said Burke was not a suspect, so who could they have been covering for?

It only makes sense that Hunter didn't charge the Ramseys. Can you imagine trying to prove that sort of thing in a court of law?

I honestly think the jurors felt backed in a corner and had to hand down a true bill on something. At the same time, I feel they all knew the indictments would never be charged. We already know the one juror who spoke out felt that way.

My personal feelings behind that sentiment was the incredible disgust and shame lumped on the Ramseys (especially Patsy) about the pageants.

 

[Deleted member 187229]

Unless you were there, you have no way of knowing what the sequence was of what happened with the note, etc. that night. This is speculation and your opinion only.

The actual forensic evidence of an intruder is very slim. The intruder theory was presented to the Grand Jury and they rejected it.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, as are we all. We can say the same thing that you said here....unless there is concrete evidence pointing to an intruder, which there is not, it's only speculation and theories.

With regard to the ransom note, handwriting experts at the CBI ruled out John Ramsey as the author of the note, but they could not rule Patsy out. There are plenty of well qualified handwriting experts / graphologists who have determined Patsy is the likely author of the note. That Patsy pretended in interviews not to recognize what was known to be her own handwriting was pure theatrics on her part.

Here is a partial list of experts who have examined the note and believe Patsy to have been the author. They are all well respected experts.

Gideon Epstein - Forensic Document Examiner
David S. Liebman - Certified Document Examiner
Tom Miller - Attorney, Court Qualified Expert Witness in Questioned Documents
Chet Ubowski - Colorado Bureau of Investigation Handwriting Expert
Cina L. Wong - Certified Document Examiner
Larry F. Ziegler - Forensic Document Examiner
Michelle Dresbold - Graduate of the United States Secret Service's Advanced Document Examination Training Program

The hand writing experts hire through the police scored patsy 4.5 out of 5 with being bring no match at all. Gary oliva scored a 1.5 and it’s unlikely he wrote it. He lived close to the Ramsey’s and there’s all the letters he wrote to his friend and the phone confession saying he hurt a little girl etc. the people who compared the note for tv used copies and samples pulled from the internet. There’s no proof those handwriting examples are even patsys. Those comparisons and conclusions wouldn’t hold up in a court of law. How unprofessional! And if the tv program is aimed at throwing suspicion on the ramseys and selling the narrative that patsy wrote the note, then it only stands to reason they’re going to try and prove patsy write the note. You can’t use copies and photo copies of evidence to give a professional diagnosis. One thing that I find bizarre is the locked windows and doors, if the parents went to the trouble of the murder, note and staging, why didn’t they open a window or door? Why did they tell police all entry points were locked and why give the police their note pads?

 

[GRT]

There is another WS thread on the Ahmaud Arbery case in Georgia. Details on the latest apparent interference of a prosecutor in that case to be prosecuted for their actions are at this link:

Post in thread 'GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former LEO and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 *Arrests* #6'
GUILTY - GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former LEO and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 *Arrests* #6

I can only hope something similar is done in this JBR case. MOO

That's interesting. I was unaware of that case, but now I'll try to follow it.

I think in order for something similar to happen in the JBR case, someone would first have to be convicted.

Even at that, at this point in time, I think it would be awfully hard to go back 30 years and sift through phone records that likely don't exist anymore. Plus, some of those from the JBR case have died.

My hope is that we just get an answer. Finally. It's too late for Patsy, but it JR has been trying all these years to find the killer, and I hope he gets his answer.