Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[CloudedTruth]

The hand writing experts hire through the police scored patsy 4.5 out of 5 with being bring no match at all. Gary oliva scored a 1.5 and it’s unlikely he wrote it. He lived close to the Ramsey’s and there’s all the letters he wrote to his friend and the phone confession saying he hurt a little girl etc. the people who compared the note for tv used copies and samples pulled from the internet. There’s no proof those handwriting examples are even patsys. Those comparisons and conclusions wouldn’t hold up in a court of law. How unprofessional! And if the tv program is aimed at throwing suspicion on the ramseys and selling the narrative that patsy wrote the note, then it only stands to reason they’re going to try and prove patsy write the note. You can’t use copies and photo copies of evidence to give a professional diagnosis. One thing that I find bizarre is the locked windows and doors, if the parents went to the trouble of the murder, note and staging, why didn’t they open a window or door? Why did they tell police all entry points were locked and why give the police their note pads?

Proving the point that the handwriting analysis score method is not an accurate or reliable measure.

Oliva did not live close to the Ramseys. He was known to visit a church that was about 13 doors away from the Ramsey house in order to do work for hire, but he didn't live there. Gary suffers from mental illness. He confessed to a lot of things that were absolute fantasy in his mind. I was not aware of his "score", however the supposed expert who recently proclaimed him as the author of the note has been discredited. Her educational background and experience were proven to have been fabricated.

I have never referenced any tv shows with regard to the handwriting analysis in this case. Not sure why you keep bringing that up. No one has mentioned tv shows, the names being mentioned are qualified, respected experts. There are different conclusions represented. However here is a comment from one of the Grand Juror's:

Jonathan Webb: We heard from three handwriting experts, and even though the handwriting experts couldn't definitively say that she wrote it, they all three came to the same conclusion that it could have been Patsy Ramsey. And the grand jury believed that she wrote it.

There was an open window in the basement. They likely handed over the notepad because refusing to do so would have been looked upon as suspicious, would it not? That very first day they at least gave the appearance they were cooperating. The cooperation was shut down in about 24 hours.

 

[Val1943]

to add its hard to find the killers are from another country

THE RANSOM LETTER
Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction.

Combined DNA Index System - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

While the U.S. database is not directly connected to any other country, the underlying CODIS software is used by other agencies around the world.

The killers are properly dead and cremated hopefully this case can be solved like this one

DNA evidence helps identify woman’s killer 36 years after her death​

How cracked the case

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/08/us/tracy-whitney-cold-case-dna-evidence/index.html

to add Tracy`s killer was found through genetic genealogy, Evidence
To confirm Guillot Jr. was the killer, detectives had to compare his DNA to the sample they had collected from the crime scene in 1988. That wasn’t possible because Guillot Jr.’s remains had been cremated.However, the genealogy lab findings led investigators to Guillot Jr.’s biological son, John Guillot III.
The son had also recently died, but the medical examiner’s office had his DNA on file. After further genetic testing, detectives confirmed his father was a match for the suspect’s genetic profile, according to the sheriff’s office.
now in the
JonBenét Ramsey case the killer `s relatives are from another country to find them?

 

[Chypre]

. I simply view JBRs pageants less as Patsy living vicariously through JBR's life, and more as putting her daughter on the only track known to Patsy to secure a successful life. Today, JBR would be viewed as a smart girl and put into a STEM school. In 1995, 30 years ago, she was viewed as a beautiful girl and signed into pageants. Time has changed.

Respectfully, I disagree.
I would appreciate if people stop referring to Patsy as a trophy wife or her pageant history as the means to her marriage or any success. She was "the beautiful girl put into" a Bachelors degree of journalism and had the moxie to move from West Virginia to Atlanta in the 1970s, let alone the 1990s. Lewisburg, WV is an old money town in some ways, but in WV completing college and moving away continues to this day to be an outlier for most young women.

 

[cenazoic]

There were three people in that house, and one of them didn't get an indictment for murder from the Grand Jury only because that person can’t be tried for murder. In my opinion.

If that person can’t be tried for murder (ie, there is no ‘murder’ in a legal sense in the case of insufficient age), then the parents can’t be indicted for being accessories to that (non-) murder.

IMO, the indictments say that one (or both) parents are guilty of abuse and murder, they just weren’t sure which one did what.

 

[Val1943]

I'm a 81 old grandma and want to find out who killed that sweet little girl
I ve been through all the JonBenét Ramsey s trials and the Ramey's were innocent.
JonBenét Ramsey: The 1996 murder of JonBenét Ramsey remains unsolved

<modsnip - not a source>

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

According to the Vanity Fair article, there were 74 people who submitted handwriting samples, and only Patsy's set off alarm bells with similarities. IIRC, at the time handwriting analysis were being done, there were only a few of the hired experts that used the 5 point scale because it isn't considered accurate or particularly reliable.

Patsy gave 5 handwriting examples, at least one of which was done with her left hand after it became known that she was ambidextrous.

As to the other questions, I do not know the answers and agree it would be very interesting to know under what circumstances she had to provide her samples.

I'm of the belief she alternated hands as to explain the huge variation of the same letter.

 

[Slebby]

I'm a 81 old grandma and want to find out who killed that sweet little girl
I ve been through all the JonBenét Ramsey s trials and the Ramey's were innocent.
JonBenét Ramsey: The 1996 murder of JonBenét Ramsey remains unsolved

<modnsnip - not a source>

I’m a Gramma too! Old and wise ;-)
It’s a shame no one confers credentials on grannies to allow us to make determinations on guilt or innocence.
I believe there is Ramsey involvement.

 

[Val1943]

to add Tracy`s killer was found through genetic genealogy, Evidence
To confirm Guillot Jr. was the killer, detectives had to compare his DNA to the sample they had collected from the crime scene in 1988. That wasn’t possible because Guillot Jr.’s remains had been cremated.However, the genealogy lab findings led investigators to Guillot Jr.’s biological son, John Guillot III.
The son had also recently died, but the medical examiner’s office had his DNA on file. After further genetic testing, detectives confirmed his father was a match for the suspect’s genetic profile, according to the sheriff’s office.
now in the
JonBenét Ramsey case the killer `s relatives are from another country to find them?

again

 

[Val1943]

I’m a Gramma too! Old and wise ;-)
It’s a shame no one confers credentials on grannies to allow us to make determinations on guilt or innocence.
I believe there is Ramsey involvement.

sorry I dont believe Ramsey `s is in the involvement

 

[Val1943]

In December 2023, the Boulder Police Department announced that they were asking the Colorado Cold Case Review Team to recommend new forensic testing technologies for the JonBenet Ramsey case. The case remains unsolved

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

The jurors indictment, IMO, presents, that they’re both convicted of putting JB in harm and assisting to cover up a crime.

They both
"....did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly, and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JBR, a child under 16 years of age."


"....did unlawfully, knowingly, and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction, and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and Child Abuse Resulting In Death."

The keyword in both of these indictments is knowingly, IMO.

IMO, these charges only point to one person and leave a little room for imagination.

It was stated somewhere, that GJ cannot charge the parents to be accessories when the actual murderer cannot be charged due to age limitations. Correct me if I'm wrong. So, if that is the case, they just can not be an accessory of a murderer that can never be convicted. And it explains the indictments. There were three people in that house, and one of them didn't get an indictment for murder from the Grand Jury only because that person can’t be tried for murder. In my opinion.

They came to the conclusion it was murder in the 1st degree. I can't believe they had zero basis for this decision. Why not manslaughter or 2nd degree murder? I'm sure the had instruction and the guidance if the court as to how to charge based on their findings.
I like you think the ambiguity could be to shield BR but I don't discount they couldn't pinpoint who did what act but had a very strong indication it was one of the 3 and this decision was not made on tabloid influence.

 

[Deleted member 187229]

Proving the point that the handwriting analysis score method is not an accurate or reliable measure.

Oliva did not live close to the Ramseys. He was known to visit a church that was about 13 doors away from the Ramsey house in order to do work for hire, but he didn't live there. Gary suffers from mental illness. He confessed to a lot of things that were absolute fantasy in his mind. I was not aware of his "score", however the supposed expert who recently proclaimed him as the author of the note has been discredited. Her educational background and experience were proven to have been fabricated.

I have never referenced any tv shows with regard to the handwriting analysis in this case. Not sure why you keep bringing that up. No one has mentioned tv shows, the names being mentioned are qualified, respected experts. There are different conclusions represented. However here is a comment from one of the Grand Juror's:

Jonathan Webb: We heard from three handwriting experts, and even though the handwriting experts couldn't definitively say that she wrote it, they all three came to the same conclusion that it could have been Patsy Ramsey. And the grand jury believed that she wrote it.

There was an open window in the basement. They likely handed over the notepad because refusing to do so would have been looked upon as suspicious, would it not? That very first day they at least gave the appearance they were cooperating. The cooperation was shut down in about 24 hours.

 

[Val1943]

Eyewitnesses​

[edit]
Scott Gibbons, a neighbor, claimed that around midnight, while looking from his kitchen window, he saw the upper kitchen of the Ramsey residence lit up with dimmed lights. Neighbor Melody Stanton reported that she was awoken shortly after midnight by the sound of a child's scream coming from the Ramsey residence

Killing of JonBenét Ramsey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Val1943]

THE RANSOM LETTER

The two gentlemen watching over your daughter

while he was writhing that letter the other two took JonBenét Ramsey' into the wine cellar . because she woke up from the stunt gun and started screaming they killed her to shunt her up "(

 

[Deleted member 187229]

sorry I dont believe Ramsey `s

Proving the point that the handwriting analysis score method is not an accurate or reliable measure.

Oliva did not live close to the Ramseys. He was known to visit a church that was about 13 doors away from the Ramsey house in order to do work for hire, but he didn't live there. Gary suffers from mental illness. He confessed to a lot of things that were absolute fantasy in his mind. I was not aware of his "score", however the supposed expert who recently proclaimed him as the author of the note has been discredited. Her educational background and experience were proven to have been fabricated.

I have never referenced any tv shows with regard to the handwriting analysis in this case. Not sure why you keep bringing that up. No one has mentioned tv shows, the names being mentioned are qualified, respected experts. There are different conclusions represented. However here is a comment from one of the Grand Juror's:

Jonathan Webb: We heard from three handwriting experts, and even though the handwriting experts couldn't definitively say that she wrote it, they all three came to the same conclusion that it could have been Patsy Ramsey. And the grand jury believed that she wrote it.

There was an open window in the basement. They likely handed over the notepad because refusing to do so would have been looked upon as suspicious, would it not? That very first day they at least gave the appearance they were cooperating. The cooperation was shut down in about 24 hours.

Patsy scored 4.5 out of 5. She didn’t write the note. She also passed a polygraph in 2000. The handwriting analysers you mentioned were for tv entertainment purposes. They’re not privy to information regarding anything about the note or patsys handwriting examples other than unvarified copies floating around on the internet. Patsy was told what to write and how to write it for her handwriting tests so comparisons could be made. You can’t compare her handwriting examples without knowing why she wrote certain things certain ways. No court would accept the comparisons done for tv. The only handwriting comparisons that hold any validity are the ones done through the police and her score determined it was highly unlikely she was the author of the note. Technically you could say a 4.5 score doesn’t rule someone out but that’s just grasping at straws. I’ve heard of other people scoring a closer match than patsy, bill McReynolds apparently scored a closer match but was ruled out due to his ill health. Linda Hoffman Pugh is another one who apparently scored a closer match but was ruled out because she had an alibi of being asleep.

 

[CloudedTruth]

They came to the conclusion it was murder in the 1st degree. I can't believe they had zero basis for this decision. Why not manslaughter or 2nd degree murder? I'm sure the had instruction and the guidance if the court as to how to charge based on their findings.
I like you think the ambiguity could be to shield BR but I don't discount they couldn't pinpoint who did what act but had a very strong indication it was one of the 3 and this decision was not made on tabloid influence.

Agree.

I think the grand jurors were very conscientious about what was expected from them, and took their responsibilities seriously. Here is a quote from one of them:

“At the beginning, they said, ‘Don’t look at the media.’ But this was a year-and-a-half we were doing this, so some time not long after the beginning, they said, ‘We really can’t ask you not to look at the media. There is too much stuff going on.'”

And so, the juror said, “The instructions sort of changed to, ‘What you need to pay attention to is what’s said in this room. You’ve already seen how much out there is not true. Pay attention to what is said inside this room because this is evidence we can back up. And things that are said outside aren’t that way.’ They expected us to be grownups about it, if you will.”

Another juror talks about how they were asked not to discuss the case with anyone, not even family. They had concerns about family members being upset by this, but they understood and were respectful of the process.

I do not think they were influenced by the tabloids, and we know from what the few who have spoke out that after hearing testimony and seeing the evidence, they were convinced it was John or Patsy. They just weren't sure which one did what and hoped that more evidence would come to light to prove who did what at trial. They knew that a conviction was unlikely because of that confusion, but they felt strongly enough about what they saw and heard to indict with the hope that at trial it would become more clear. They understood Hunter's decision, but were disappointed.

"Somebody did something pretty horrible that wasn't punished. I'm not saying that I'm at peace, but I has sympathy with his (Hunter's) decision. I could see the problem he was in. I could understand what he was doing".

Still, one juror who spoke with the Camera expressed a feeling of still not being completely reconciled with Hunter’s decision. But the juror added that, perceiving that it would be a difficult case to try, Hunter’s declining to sign the indictment, also known as a true bill, was understandable.

And, the juror said, “I think I did believe that they would get more evidence and figure out who did it.”

 

[Deleted member 187229]

THE RANSOM LETTER

The two gentlemen watching over your daughter

while he was writhing that letter the other two took JonBenét Ramsey' into the wine cellar . because she woke up from the stunt gun and started screaming they killed her to shunt her up "(

There’s also dna evidence that coincides with two gentlemen. The dna in jonbenets underoants, longjohns and fingernails from unidentified man 1. And dna evidence on the neck and wrist ligatures from unidentified man 2.

 

[Val1943]

Caucasian Hair on Blanket​

"Likewise, an unidentified Caucasian "pubic or auxiliary" hair, not *1357 matching any Ramsey, was found on the blanket covering JonBenet' body. (SMF P 179-180; PSMF P 179-180.)" (Carnes 2003:96).

JonBenet Ramsey Case Encyclopedia / The Intruder

jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com

 

[Val1943]

Brown Cotton Fibers​

"Brown cotton fibers on JonBenet's body, the paintbrush, the duct tape and on the ligature were not sourced and do not match anything in the Ramsey home. (SMF P 181; PSMF P181.) (Carnes 2003:20).

 

[Charlot123]

Respectfully, I disagree.
I would appreciate if people stop referring to Patsy as a trophy wife or her pageant history as the means to her marriage or any success. She was "the beautiful girl put into" a Bachelors degree of journalism and had the moxie to move from West Virginia to Atlanta in the 1970s, let alone the 1990s. Lewisburg, WV is an old money town in some ways, but in WV completing college and moving away continues to this day to be an outlier for most young women.

That is what I mean. A line before I said, I do consider Parsy smart. But since my whole post was snipped, it looks different now. And where did you see me using the term "trophy wife"? As to pageants, what is viewed negatively now, was different in mid-90-es. People used to be reminded that Brooke Shields started at 11 months. Several other young starlets come to mind, sich as Romina Power, Drew Barrymore and i8 Tatum O'Neal.

My post, actually, was the result of my thinking about the ransom note and actually, asking why would Patsy whom I consider smart, write such a sum of 118K, and wouldn't it rather point at some "insider-outsider", a person close enough to do it and know about the bonus, and yet not the Ramseys themselves.