Fiber Analysis

[mom2chloe]

BJB, are you suggesting that Casey would have worn the same outfit to Fusian 2 Fridays in a row? I don't care how homeless she was, there is no way this would happen. :snooty:

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I am leaning toward the idea of a black wool something being used to administer chloroform prior to the duct tape application. The fibers would have come off the wool item onto Caylee's face if the item was wet from chloroform, and then transferred to the tape when it was applied.

It doesn't make sense to line up duct tape pieces on something wool before using them. You would want to stick them on something smooth--plastic, metal, etc. And the fibers were not on Q104, correct? Just the pieces of duct tape found on the skull? So it seems to me that the fibers must have been from something that touched those three pieces of tape but did NOT touch Q104 (which might have been around Caylee's wrists).

Also, I don't see Casey going into the "Caylee's stuff" drawer of the spare room dresser to look for something to wear to a club. Or into Cindy's sweater drawer for that matter. And wasn't Cindy saying that the sweaters were kept in a different drawer from Caylee's stuff (including the blanket)?

Anyway. Stream of consciousness stuff here, but for a variety of reasons I think a black wool makeshift chloroform cloth makes most sense. Would there be anything left of something like that after 6 months in a swamp?

Absolutely agree that she wouldn't have worn the same dress 2 Fridays in a row!
Your theory about the fibers makes perfect sense and certainly explains why the Q104 had none. Any idea if one would need to use a natural wool fiber to administer chloroform? Seriously, seems like maybe a synthetic would melt on contact? I'll google it!

This is pure speculation but might KC have applied the duct tape to the inside of the drawer ( a smooth surface as you suggested) while awaiting the opportunity to use it? Knowing CA would not be going in her winter sweater drawer anytime soon? I have a hard time understanding why KC would be in that particular dresser too but it was in the same room as the desktop where we know she spent a significant amount of time.

Thanks for all you do for us AZ, you rock!:blowkiss:

 

[BondJamesBond]

Brilliant idea to compare Tony's outfits, Beach. Although, as pointed out above, it looks possible the DBC guys may have all changed into t-shirts.

Nothing conclusive, but, note that in both of the pics above Casey is wearing the same accessory on her left wrist. :sleuth:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Absolutely agree that she wouldn't have worn the same dress 2 Fridays in a row!
Your theory about the fibers makes perfect sense and certainly explains why the Q104 had none. Any idea if one would need to use a natural wool fiber to administer chloroform? Seriously, seems like maybe a synthetic would melt on contact? I'll google it!

This is pure speculation but might KC have applied the duct tape to the inside of the drawer ( a smooth surface as you suggested) while awaiting the opportunity to use it? Knowing CA would not be going in her winter sweater drawer anytime soon? I have a hard time understanding why KC would be in that particular dresser too but it was in the same room as the desktop where we know she spent a significant amount of time.

Thanks for all you do for us AZ, you rock!:blowkiss:

How about the idea that Casey has a chloroformed Caylee in the same room as the dresser, takes the Winnie the pooh blanket out, puts Caylee on the blanket, tears off four strips of duct tape, sticks them to the rim of the open drawer as she does it, then applies these strips to Caylee's face, wraps her up in the blanket, places her in the laundry bag, then carries her out to the car.

 

[BondJamesBond]

FWIW, wool is a protein, hence, IMHO, it would be readily dissolved by chloroform. That doesn't really promote or detract from a scenario involving a wool-containing dousing cloth. Just FYI. :twocents: HTH.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Brilliant idea to compare Tony's outfits, Beach. Although, as pointed out above, it looks possible the DBC guys may have all changed into t-shirts.

Nothing conclusive, but, note that in both of the pics above Casey is wearing the same accessory on her left wrist. :sleuth:

....same jeans on Tony too yeah? I found a photo of Tony and Casey where she has the same black dress on, but he is wearing a different shirt, also you can see the black tshirt underneath the shirt. So she wore that black dress on two different nights.

 

[BondJamesBond]

....same jeans on Tony too yeah? I found a photo of Tony and Casey where she has the same black dress on, but he is wearing a different shirt, also you can see the black tshirt underneath the shirt. So she wore that black dress on two different nights.

Casey is also absent the necklace in the pic w/ Tony in the solid shirt, FWIW.

ETA: Iniital impression is that the guy (DBC t-shirt) next to Casey in that particular Fusian booth pic pointing into the air isn't Tony. That guy is wearing something on his right wrist that Tony doesn't have on in any other pics AFAIK. I don't see a watch on his left-hand either.

 

[beach]

Brilliant idea to compare Tony's outfits, Beach. Although, as pointed out above, it looks possible the DBC guys may have all changed into t-shirts.

Nothing conclusive, but, note that in both of the pics above Casey is wearing the same accessory on her left wrist. :sleuth:

True and very astute observations! Then again, you're name IS Bond, huh? :angel:


Since you've taught me well , I'll point out that Tony is missing an accessory on his right wrist and I cannot see his neck chain in the button-down shirt/black dress pic.



This place is like a bad addiction when something new breaks. :loser:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Casey is also absent the necklace in the pic w/ Tony in the solid shirt, FWIW.

ETA: Iniital impression is that the guy (DBC t-shirt) next to Casey in that particular Fusian booth pic pointing into the air isn't Tony. That guy is wearing something on his right wrist that Tony doesn't have on in any other pics AFAIK.

I thought that until I saw this capture.....

 

[BondJamesBond]

I thought that until I saw this capture.....

Hey, Mrs. G. Thanks for feedin' the beast here. :thumb:

IMHO, they're all movin' around between pics. I don't see the necklace on Tony that is on the guy pointing into the air. And the other peeps have moved 'round too.

I don't claim to know what I'm talkin' about...I'm just pointin' out what hits me.

 

[SideKick]

Don't forget these photos, however taken on June 06/08 for reference to K's other black dress. Lots of photos of TL as well.


http://www.partyfoulz.com/albums/album/72157605539805092/6908-Jukebox-Voyage-Orlando.html

 

[mom2chloe]

And to follow up on my post above, the fact that Cindy mentioned the sweaters is one reason I do NOT think they are the source of the fibers. Every time she goes out of her way to say something she was NOT ASKED, I picture herself mentally checking it off on a checklist: "OK, good. I managed to work in the sweater thing. Now they will never figure out that I found Casey's black wool _______ in the yard that day next to her Tiffany ring and threw it out cause it smelled funny."

Wild speculation only, obviously.

So, maybe CA threw this out but in reality of the 6 dresser drawers, only 2 contained Caylee's blankets, only 2 contained CA's winter sweaters and the other 2 contained KC's winter items? I am wondering what other items there might be? Wool scarves, gloves, what else i wonder?

 

[webhound]

Wonderful thinking everyone! I am really enjoying your thought processes!

I would still keep an open mind for the possibility that the black wool fibers could have come from a ball cap. In Florida, that is about only item of apparel made of wool that would be common. KC was quite fond of them too. Her room was full of baseball caps and we have seen several photos of her with various caps. If I'm not mistaken, we have also seen photos with Caylee in caps, although I may be mistaken on that one.

Her various male "friends" wear ball caps too as seen in the photos you posted.

 

[beach]

....same jeans on Tony too yeah? I found a photo of Tony and Casey where she has the same black dress on, but he is wearing a different shirt, also you can see the black tshirt underneath the shirt. So she wore that black dress on two different nights.

I'm getting confused in re. the TonyL DBC t-shirt pics....will try to decipher more later, but I didn't want this to slip by us -

Mrs.G, do you have any idea the date the pic was taken in the thumbnail pic you attached in this post?

 

[beach]

And to follow up on my post above, the fact that Cindy mentioned the sweaters is one reason I do NOT think they are the source of the fibers. Every time she goes out of her way to say something she was NOT ASKED, I picture herself mentally checking it off on a checklist: "OK, good. I managed to work in the sweater thing. Now they will never figure out that I found Casey's black wool _______ in the yard that day next to her Tiffany ring and threw it out cause it smelled funny."

Wild speculation only, obviously.

So, maybe CA threw this out but in reality of the 6 dresser drawers, only 2 contained Caylee's blankets, only 2 contained CA's winter sweaters and the other 2 contained KC's winter items? I am wondering what other items there might be? Wool scarves, gloves, what else i wonder?

I agree.

I totally get what AZ is saying and I agree with her synopsis of Cindy's mental checklist. I pretty much picture it the same way.

However, I'm not even sure CA knew the importance of the black wool fibers when she testified at her SA depo. Yes, I know WE were aware, but every day I am amazed by the ignorance of the defense team and their lack of knowledge surrounding the evidence and facts of this case.


Maybe I'm just wishing it so much, but I really can see KC retrieving the black wool whatever item at the same time she got the WTP blanket. I mean it was convenient and heaven knows, KC loves the idea of anything that requires zero effort, iykwim.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I'm getting confused in re. the TonyL DBC t-shirt pics....will try to decipher more later, but I didn't want this to slip by us -

Mrs.G, do you have any idea the date the pic was taken in the thumbnail pic you attached in this post?

Hehe. For those keeping score @ home...quick recap.


Objective: Determine if Casey was wearing the black dress on 6/20.

Inputs:

• Pics of Casey wearing blue dress are known to be from 6/20
• Per Nate statement we know Casey changed outfits on 6/20 into the blue dress, so, it is possible Casey was wearing the black dress beforehand
• Casey is wearing the same accessory on her left wrist in pics of her wearing the blue dress & the black dress...although not conclusive is worth noting
• Pics of Casey in the black dress w/ Tony wearing two different collared shirts (1) striped and (2) solid indicating Casey wore dress more than once
• In pics of Tony with Casey in blue dress, Tony is wearing black D.B.C. t-shirt which he may have worn only during Fusian DJ'g...at least one pic shows a black t-shirt under his collared shirt
• In pics of Casey sitting in booth on the thread so far the guy(s) sitting next to her don't appear to be Tony based on their necklace/watch presence/absence
• In a pic of Tony w/ Casey I can't link behind the firewall...Tony in the black D.B.C shirt and Casey in the blue dress...Tony is wearing a black toboggan (and Casey's right-hand is in clear view w/ no Tiffany ring FYI.)
• ...am leaving out some...but FWIW

ETA: Need to point out that we threw what Tony was wearing into the mix using Beach's idea that perhaps his outfit would be consistent on a given night. While its a brilliant approach to the problem...so far it has just added variables to the mix. :waitasec:

In the meantime...just for grins...it'd be interesting if anyone wants to weigh in on what they think the dress might be....knit? blend? latex? ( threw that in just to see if you're paying attention).

ETA2: None of this precludes the position that something of black wool content from the dresser of sweaters where the WTP blanket was stored - through a myriad of scenarios we've just scratched the surface on so far - is an excellent source for what ultimately was found on the duct tape. We're just playin' w/ the black dress notion owing esp. to the potential it was worn on the 6/20 date that IMHO is the most-likely date of disposal.

 

[AZlawyer]

I checked the forensics summary at Val's site (hinkymeter), and no black wool fibers were found on Q82 (the WTP blanket).

I don't think chloroform would dissolve wool, because old magazine articles say you can use chloroform to clean stains from wool.

So...what if the "dresser of winter stuff" had a drawer--the "Caylee's stuff" drawer--that contained (1) the WTP blanket and other winter bedthings, and (2) black wool winter hat/mittens/scarf for Caylee, any of which could have been used to apply chloroform?

 

[AZlawyer]

Hehe. For those keeping score @ home...quick recap.


Objective: Determine if Casey was wearing the black dress on 6/20.

Inputs:

• Pics of Casey wearing blue dress are known to be from 6/20
• Per Nate statement we know Casey changed outfits on 6/20 into the blue dress, so, it is possible Casey was wearing the black dress beforehand
• Casey is wearing the same accessory on her left wrist in pics of her wearing the blue dress & the black dress...although not conclusive is worth noting
• Pics of Casey in the black dress w/ Tony wearing two different collared shirts (1) striped and (2) solid indicating Casey wore dress more than once
• In pics of Tony with Casey in blue dress, Tony is wearing black D.B.C. t-shirt which he may have worn only during Fusian DJ'g...at least one pic shows a black t-shirt under his collared shirt
• In pics of Casey sitting in booth on the thread so far the guy(s) sitting next to her don't appear to be Tony based on their necklace/watch presence/absence
• In a pic of Tony w/ Casey I can't link behind the firewall...Tony in the black D.B.C shirt and Casey in the blue dress...Tony is wearing a black toboggan (and Casey's right-hand is in clear view w/ no Tiffany ring FYI.)
• ...am leaving out some...but FWIW

Does she have the Tiffany ring in the black-dress photos?

 

[AZlawyer]

Guess where else Val's site says black wool fibers were found? Q244 (Mama Doll).

I can't find the original forensics report on this...:banghead:

 

[beach]

Does she have the Tiffany ring in the black-dress photos?

She does have on a silver (white gold or platinum?) ring on her middle finger, left hand. It appears that it could be the Tiffany ring. I can't tell for sure...

 

[AZlawyer]

And hmmm...Q248 (the napkins with the suspected adipocere) has purple and orange fibers like those on Caylee's shorts (Q80), and Caucasian "reddish brown" hair like Casey's.

Until someone tracks down the original fiber reports, I hope it's OK to link Val's site here:
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/casey-anthony-murder-trial/forensic-evidence/

ETA: Original FBI trace evidence notes on many items beginning p. 752 of this document:http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21252257/detail.html