FL- 12 Story Condo Partial Building Collapse, many still unaccounted for, Miami, 24 June 2021 #2

[Dontknow?]

They tore out a portion of the deck and the water just started flowing.

 

[LadyL]

If I was a family member of someone deceased I would wait a while to file a lawsuit, until I had more information. There really is no rush to file a suit right now. There is a statute of limitations, probably 2-3 years, and while I would not wait that long, I would really want more information from documents and witnesses that will describe the months and weeks leading up to the collapse.

they might want to get in early due to limited funds/assets available to distribute IMO if people are suing now and whoever settles, then future lawsuits will be pointless if the money's all gone

 

[Hope32]

They made some good progress last night it appears. They have gotten down into the garage area it seems, but now the trouble is it is completely flooded. I have heard they have been pumping it out continuously, but it's filling just as fast.

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[Ann99]

They made some good progress last night it appears. They have gotten down into the garage area it seems, but now the trouble is it is completely flooded. I have heard they have been pumping it out continuously, but it's filling just as fast.

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I don't know anything about this specific piece of land as it relates to the ocean and Biscayne Bay other than what I see on Google Earth.

After looking at Google Earth I have an erosion question.
Is it possible that long term deep ground erosion of the land came from 2 directions, both ocean and bay?
It is just something I have been wondering. Not to negate any other possibilities such as design flaw or construction error. TIA.

 

[SouthAussie]

They made some good progress last night it appears. They have gotten down into the garage area it seems, but now the trouble is it is completely flooded. I have heard they have been pumping it out continuously, but it's filling just as fast.

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I wonder where the continual water is coming from.

 

[Ann99]

I wonder where the continual water is coming from.

I was wondering that too. Also wondering how this water seeping or flowing may affect other buildings nearby.

 

[branmuffin]

I don't know anything about this specific piece of land as it relates to the ocean and Biscayne Bay other than what I see on Google Earth.

After looking at Google Earth I have an erosion question.
Is it possible that long term deep ground erosion of the land came from 2 directions, both ocean and bay?
It is just something I have been wondering. Not to negate any other possibilities such as design flaw or construction error. TIA.

A lot of experts say building on barrier islands is dangerous because they continually move, eroding in some parts and redistributing sand in others. I'm on my phone right now and can't link but this has been mentioned before when in 2008 Hurricane Ike damaged Texas' barrier islands.

 

[Ann99]

A lot of experts say building on barrier islands is dangerous because they continually move, eroding in some parts and redistributing sand in others. I'm on my phone right now and can't link but this has been mentioned before when in 2008 Hurricane Ike damaged Texas' barrier islands.

I can imagine that the force of water especially during tropical storms or hurricanes) coming from both sides would erode.
Decided to look up definition of Barrier Island.
Pretty obvious that building on a barrier island is dangerous.
An island that protects the mainland would be subject to the forces.
How was massive high rise building ever permitted. I know, there is not an answer. Just pointing out the lack of care or thought.

• a long narrow island lying parallel and close to the mainland, protecting the mainland from erosion and storms.
  
  
  
  
  

 

[Dontknow?]

There's water from the ocean and from the back side or bay behind the condo building. I pointed this out early on. Don't know if water is flowing under it or if rain is the cause of the flooding. Hope the link works.

Google Maps

 

[IceIce9]

Search is nearing completion, as few as 5 more victims expected to be found.


Surfside search may be down to as few as five yet to be found. Toll stands at 95.

 

[Ann99]

There's water from the ocean and from the back side of the condo building. I pointed this out early on. Don't know if water is flowing under it or if rain is the cause of the flooding. Hope the link works.

Google Maps

Yes. TY! This is so easy to see on your map. Again, I know nothing about water currants, erosion, etc., but it looks to me like that corner of Biscayne Bay would be a location of stress. I will bet there are pockets of erosion (even if small or narrow) and water is flowing under it from the both the Bay and also from the Ocean.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes. TY! This is so easy to see on your map. Again, I know nothing about water currants, erosion, etc., but it looks to me like that corner of Biscayne Bay would be a location of stress. I will bet there are pockets of erosion (even if small or narrow) and water is flowing under it from the both the Bay and also from the Ocean.

Apparently the building was built on porous limestone, sand, and landfill of organic matter.
I am wondering if that continual water is coming up from the water table.
Though I think there must also be erosion, as you say, in the bed of porous limestone and organic matter - seeing that is such a weak foundation (imo).


The 12-story condominium tower that crashed down early Thursday near Miami Beach was built on reclaimed wetlands

Underneath its foundation, as with Miami Beach, is sand and organic fill -over a plateau of porous limestone – brought in from the bay after the mangroves were deforested. The fill sinks naturally and the subsidence worsens as the water table rises.

Before condo collapse, rising seas have long pressured Miami coastal properties

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I wonder where the continual water is coming from.

How is the color and amount compared to what is right now in the swimming pool to you?

The pool was dry just a few days back, and is my understanding they have not pumped out the decking area as it is hazardous waste (oil/gas etc) so has to be pumped out later in tankers.

Not sure how much is rain and preexisting waters... just looking to compare pool right now.


Source: Live feed of 24 hour camera we've been following. Champlain Towers South

 

[dixiegirl1035]

How is the color and amount compared to what is right now in the swimming pool to you?

The pool was dry just a few days back, and is my understanding they have not pumped out the decking area as it is hazardous waste (oil/gas etc) so has to be pumped out later in tankers.

Not sure how much is rain and preexisting waters... just looking to compare pool right now.

View attachment 304662
Source: Live feed of 24 hour camera we've been following. Champlain Towers South

Guy walking through the flooded area showing how it is shallow vs. deep right now in live feed above

 

[Hope32]

Here is some really good footage of the collapse from a drone. It certainly helps you to see how far they have come to were they were starting from.

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[Hope32]

Looks like they are trying to build a ramp for a tanker to pump out the water. It's not on the youtube direct link, but the full view is in the youtube description. It's farther to the Left of the screen.

Champlain Towers South

 

[IQuestion]

I was wondering that too. Also wondering how this water seeping or flowing may affect other buildings nearby.

Well ANN99... You just posed the $64,000 Question. Remember the words from Raide Jadallah, "For every action there is a reaction"? All construction involves figuring out drainage away from a building structure...sewer, landscape, water shed, even the slope of your patios & street gutters, rain gutters, etc. Water, can make life wonderful. Conversely, in the wrong place it can make life a living hell. While most of us would not stay in a hotel with buckets catching water coming from the ceilings or underground parking that was beginning to look like a cave with stalactites and weeping walls... the residents were accepting it as a negotiable condition. "Hey, they had pumps, they were gonna' fix it, they had meetings, they had budgets, they had assessments, they had reports, they had photos, they were diverting water from falling on cars... " Oh geez lahweez!! The handwriting was literally on the walls in capital letters.
I keep thinking about a neighbor who had a huge tree in his yard. Too big, too close. He needed to have it cut down but was complaining about the cost. Speeding down the track of denial, a storm dropped a lot of rain, followed by strong winds. Guess what happened?
But I digress....wonder where the water will flow now?

 

[Dontknow?]

Not seeing a press conference today anywhere.

Fourteen people remain unaccounted for, which includes 10 victims whose bodies have been recovered but not yet identified — leaving potentially four more victims to be found.

“It’s a scientific, methodical process to identify human remains. As we’ve said, this work is becoming more difficult with the passage of time,” said Miami-Dade Mayor Levine, adding that it is “truly a fluid situation.”

Of the 14 people considered not accounted for, the mayor said 12 are the subject of missing persons reports and detectives are trying to verify information about the other two.

Crews have removed more than 18 million pounds of rubble from the site. Search crews were taking great care to identify and preserve any personal property recovered, the mayor added.

Surfside Collapse Day 21: Exhausted Crews Nearing End Of Their Search, Recovery Efforts

 

[IQuestion]

Guy walking through the flooded area showing how it is shallow vs. deep right now in live feed above

View attachment 304663
View attachment 304664

Is that area/basement below sea level? (Anybody?)
edited to add...My devoted research assistant, Ms. Google has just informed me the elevation of Surfside, Florida is 3 feet!! Wow that seems really low.

 

[Hope32]

Is that area/basement below sea level? (Anybody?)

That would be the garage below level at this time. It is below the pool deck/jacuzzi that that is in the upper left corner.