GUILTY FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #4 *Arrest*

[human]

I'm guessing a home-made bomb.

Seriously, even if guns were obliterated from our society, those who want to and plan a mass killing will find a way somehow.


And just to speculate here - there is always the possibility of something replacing guns in our future society, as a means of killing people on a daily basis.

Why do you feel kids in England or Australia do not do it?

 

[MaryG12]

Why do you feel kids in England or Australia do not do it?

Why kids in England or Australia do not do bombs?

I think knives replaced guns

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ng-young-people-england-wales-eight-year-high

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-falls-to-record-low-of-one-person-per-100000

 

[human]

Why kids in England or Australia do not do bombs?

I think knives replaced guns

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ng-young-people-england-wales-eight-year-high

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-falls-to-record-low-of-one-person-per-100000

Hm. It seems that those figures often are for domestic violence or drunk beatings or stabbings.

Is that the same as kids shooting up schools, malls , etc?

 

[Gooddeeds]

THIS IS HORRIFIC INTERNAL ABUSE OF THE MENTALLY ILL

SLO County Jail inmate died naked on the floor as deputies watched, chilling video shows

A video posted online on Friday shows California sheriff's deputies watching as an inmate with schizophrenia, who had been restrained in a chair for 46 hours, writhes on the floor of a jail cell and eventually dies.

The video shows deputies at times laughing as the prisoner, Andrew Holland, 36, lost consciousness and eventually died on Jan. 22, 2017.

The county official called the video "extremely painful to watch."

Holland had struggled with schizophrenia since he was in his early 20s, and done multiple stints in county jail, according to The Tribune. He was restrained in the chair after he repeatedly hit himself.

The video shows deputies entering the cell periodically to rotate Holland's limbs and offer him food and water. County policy requires officials to rotate restrained inmates' extremities to prevent blood clots.

After being released from the chair, Holland is taken into another cell, where he's left naked on the floor, the video shows. He can be seen writhing and struggling to breath.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/video-shows-police-laughing-as-mentally-ill-inmate-dies/ar-BBKlHPy

 

[mpnola]

THIS IS HORRIFIC INTERNAL ABUSE OF THE MENTALLY ILL

SLO County Jail inmate died naked on the floor as deputies watched, chilling video shows

A video posted online on Friday shows California sheriff's deputies watching as an inmate with schizophrenia, who had been restrained in a chair for 46 hours, writhes on the floor of a jail cell and eventually dies.

The video shows deputies at times laughing as the prisoner, Andrew Holland, 36, lost consciousness and eventually died on Jan. 22, 2017.

The county official called the video "extremely painful to watch."

Holland had struggled with schizophrenia since he was in his early 20s, and done multiple stints in county jail, according to The Tribune. He was restrained in the chair after he repeatedly hit himself.

The video shows deputies entering the cell periodically to rotate Holland's limbs and offer him food and water. County policy requires officials to rotate restrained inmates' extremities to prevent blood clots.

After being released from the chair, Holland is taken into another cell, where he's left naked on the floor, the video shows. He can be seen writhing and struggling to breath.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/video-shows-police-laughing-as-mentally-ill-inmate-dies/ar-BBKlHPy

Omg.... he doesn't belong in jail. But since there are no mental health services available, they get sent to jail. When will this country get it???

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Gooddeeds]

Omg.... he doesn't belong in jail. But since there are no mental health services available, they get sent to jail. When will this country get it???

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Something has to happen, this is disgraceful.
And the police??? I hope they are suspended.

 

[jjenny]

I'm guessing a home-made bomb.

Seriously, even if guns were obliterated from our society, those who want to and plan a mass killing will find a way somehow.


And just to speculate here - there is always the possibility of something replacing guns in our future society, as a means of killing people on a daily basis.

Not everybody can make a bomb. Guns provide someone an easy way to kill a lot of people, without needing any special skills. Guns also provide a way to do so from a distance (like Las Vegas shooting).
Someone like Adam Lanza, who didn't like to be touched or touch people, would have never been able to kill children if he didn't have easy access to guns, because killing someone with a knife is a much more close and personal.

 

[grammieto5]

I think the question is, if someone was going to do it anyway, even if he didn’t have a gun, what weapon would cause so many injuries and deaths in so little time and be so challenging to stop while in progress?

Especially a weapon that’s so easy to get?

baseball bat?
nunchucks?
knives?
crossbow?
driving a car bomb to the third floor?
pipe bomb?
pellet gun?
brass knuckles?
spear?
cannon?
flamethrower?
machete?
ricin?
tomahawk?
sling?
agent orange?

Agent Orange? Well for many who came in contact with that horror we know it affected three generations.
Bombs, of any type do major damage to many people, think “Little Boy” and “Fat Boy”. How long before “regular” citizens can make these types of bombs. In reality I believe it’s already possible for anyone to buy what’s needed to make any type of bomb.
Ricin, I may be wrong but I believe ricin can spread through the air, among other ways. Also something I think can be bought by any one.
The other items you mentioned may not do damage to many at the same time but they still do damage. After chemicals, which I see as not being able to be stopped unless we have students and teachers wearing gas masks, I think the knives would be the ones to do the most damage.
Evil people will always find a way to destroy. Bombs and chemicals I fear will replace guns, although I believe guns will always be available to anyone who wants one.

 

[grammieto5]

Why do you feel kids in England or Australia do not do it?

I've been wondering about this also. There are so many here on WS from many other countries. I wonder if they have these same issues with their schools? And if so how do they handle it, and if not why? I hope others from other countries will give their opinions. OR is this truly just an issue here in the US?

 

[x_files]

SCHOOL OFFICIALS WORRIED ABOUT NIKOLAS CRUZ AND GUNS 18 MONTHS BEFORE MASSACRE

Eighteen months before Nikolas Cruz shot up Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, staff were so worried about his fascination with guns that they banned him from practicing shooting skills with the JROTC, according to mental health records obtained by the South Florida Sun Sentinel.

The mental health records show counselors were sent to Cruz's home multiple times in September 2016, the same month the Department of Children and Families conducted its own investigation following up on concerns from the school and from his family.

Other documents show that psychiatrists recommended placing Cruz in a residential treatment facility as early as 2013, the same year he and his brother learned they were adopted. He was 14 years old.

A psychiatric memo dated 2014 from the alternative Cross Creek School that Cruz attended in eighth grade describes him as "moody, impulsive, angry, attention seeking, annoys others on purpose and threatens to hurt others." It describes him as having a strained relationship with his brother and indicates problems with Cruz's behavior began in 2004, when he watched his father, Roger, die from a heart attack.

But the bulk of the documents focus on a one-week period in September 2016, when the Sheriff's Office, DCF and mental health officials were investigating claims that Cruz posed, at least, a threat to himself.

Despite the repeated visits, neither the Broward Sheriff's Office nor Henderson Behavioral Health, a mental health clinic in Davie that treated him for two years, ordered Cruz hospitalized for observation under the Baker Act.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/r...uns-18-months-before-mass-shooting/ar-BBKjYZ6

The lack of action by each entity should be of great concern and outrage to the community. I hope the Sheriff isn’t looking to make up for it by taking actions that are not directly related. The SRO is definitely warranted, but it should not stop there in regards to addressing all issues of authoritarian neglect.

"Other documents show that psychiatrists recommended placing Cruz in a residential treatment facility as early as 2013."
That's where he belonged, so who didn't folow through his mother or????

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

I've been wondering about this also. There are so many here on WS from many other countries. I wonder if they have these same issues with their schools? And if so how do they handle it, and if not why? I hope others from other countries will give their opinions. OR is this truly just an issue here in the US?

BBM

Nope.

 

[enelram]

"Other documents show that psychiatrists recommended placing Cruz in a residential treatment facility as early as 2013."
That's where he belonged, so who didn't folow through his mother or????

I agree with you. So here he sits in jail, probably for life, when he was totally incapable, himself, of living a normal
law abiding life. The writing was on the wall years ago as to where this was all headed.
Too many people just said, 'not my problem'. Oh well. And looked the other way. So sad for him.

 

[jjenny]

I agree with you. So here he sits in jail, probably for life, when he was totally incapable, himself, of living a normal
law abiding life. The writing was on the wall years ago as to where this was all headed.
Too many people just said, 'not my problem'. Oh well. And looked the other way. So sad for him.

That's where I totally disagree. He was capable of living a life if that what was he wanted. He had a job (apparently no issues there), and the gun loving family he was living with for the last three months claim he behaved himself and they had no issues with him.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Not everybody can make a bomb. Guns provide someone an easy way to kill a lot of people, without needing any special skills. Guns also provide a way to do so from a distance (like Las Vegas shooting).
Someone like Adam Lanza, who didn't like to be touched or touch people, would have never been able to kill children if he didn't have easy access to guns, because killing someone with a knife is a much more close and personal.

I’ve never really thought of it like that, especially with Adam Lanza, but you are 100% correct, jjenny. Excellent point. Thank you!!

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Agent Orange? Well for many who came in contact with that horror we know it affected three generations.
Bombs, of any type do major damage to many people, think “Little Boy” and “Fat Boy”. How long before “regular” citizens can make these types of bombs. In reality I believe it’s already possible for anyone to buy what’s needed to make any type of bomb.
Ricin, I may be wrong but I believe ricin can spread through the air, among other ways. Also something I think can be bought by any one.
The other items you mentioned may not do damage to many at the same time but they still do damage. After chemicals, which I see as not being able to be stopped unless we have students and teachers wearing gas masks, I think the knives would be the ones to do the most damage.
Evil people will always find a way to destroy. Bombs and chemicals I fear will replace guns, although I believe guns will always be available to anyone who wants one.

I was being facetious about agent orange, ricin, etc.

And a home-made Fat Man/Little Boy? Really? The nuclear/atomic bombs that wiped out Nagasaki?!

You really believe there’s a disaffected teen in a suburb somewhere piecing together an atomic bomb to blow up a school?

Like, it’s just as easy and dangerous as making a pipe bomb?

I hope you’re being facetious, too.

We’re missing the point by arguing about weapons we both admit do not exist. The issue is what do we do to reduce gun violence and mass shootings? What do we do to keep our kids from being slaughtered and wounded by it RIGHT NOW??

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

"Other documents show that psychiatrists recommended placing Cruz in a residential treatment facility as early as 2013."
That's where he belonged, so who didn't folow through his mother or????

He had received treatment many times, and was scheduled to enter another treatment plan just the week following the shooting. Attended a specialty school, even.

People forget, once he turned 18, the standard for involuntary commitment became much, much more difficult. The cycle, essentially, started all over again. He was an adult.

That gap resulting from juvenile care to adult is when he spiraled, imo. His mom was dead. Other adults around him intervened many, many times but only have so much power over him. He’s an adult.

Don’t blame his mother, imo. She tried. She did her very best.

MOO

 

[jjenny]

I totally think he should have been Baker acted. If he were, he wouldn't be able to legally buy weapons. But I also think he could control his behavior if he wanted to. Working as a clerk in retail is extremely stressful (based on experience). If he couldn't control his temper, he wouldn't have lasted a day at that job. They also could fire you at a drop of a pen if you did something wrong. Yet we know he was working prior to the shooting, apparently with no issues.

 

[Alleykins]

I totally think he should have been Baker acted. If he were, he wouldn't be able to legally buy weapons. But I also think he could control his behavior if he wanted to. Working as a clerk in retail is extremely stressful (based on experience). If he couldn't control his temper, he wouldn't have lasted a day at that job. They also could fire you at a drop of a pen if you did something wrong. Yet we know he was working prior to the shooting, apparently with no issues.

BBM for clarity
Just curious, jjenny, are you the parent, primary caregiver, educated professional, or someone who lives with a child with autism or deals with autism on a daily basis?

 

[jjenny]

BBM for clarity
Just curious, jjenny, are you the parent, primary caregiver, educated professional, or someone who lives with a child with autism or deals with autism on a daily basis?

My opinion is based on the fact that for 3 month he lived with a family that claim they had no issues with him. And that he also held a job where there apparently were no issues. That to me indicates he was able to control his behavior if he wanted to, otherwise they would have been issues. I don't claim to be a caretaker of an autistic child. By the way diagnosis of autism is an extremely broad umbrella that covers a large number of people. Thus diagnosis of autism doesn't really tell you anything specific about person's abilities. Supposedly even Einstein might have been autistic.

 

[jjenny]

Hey you need somebody outside to make sure that all the students coming out have their hand in the air. He looks like a typical cop doing exactly what he was trained to do. #1 rule: Officer safety is paramount. That is what they are trained.



Rapid Response_ Officer safety is paramount during active manhunt

That is what he was doing. Assessing the scene, waiting for backup, and maintaining a heightened level of awareness. His response was textbook perfect. If you don't like that responds then make them change their training. Many of us have been saying for years that police training needs to change.

If they are getting training that officers safety is paramount and at the same time you have to go confront the shooter then they are getting contradictory training. Confronting the shooter with cop having a 9 mm and shooter armed with an AR-15 is obviously not a safe thing to do.