FL 17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #12

[TorisMom003]

I think the problem was that there were not a lot of teens outside walking around in hoodies or not. So he sees someone walking and he has never seen him before so he is going to check him out. Again, he is in his mind, a neighborhood watchman, so in his feeble mind, he is doing what he is supposed to do. I do not agree with his actions at all. I think he should have been arrested.

But to blame him for being suspicious of black teens is kind of unfair, imo. And my kids are both half black. But I am not going to pretend that there is no reason to be suspicious of a 6 ft 3 black kid walking at night in the neighborhood. There is a prominent and out of control culture which makes it seem cool to burglarize and jack cars and carry guns. And until these gangs are under control the people are going to be 'suspicious' of teens in hoodies.

The "at night" part bothers me. This is a little after 7 pm, not sometime after midnight. It had not been dark that long, correct? It also isn't as if Trayvon had been someone that was going to break into a condo that he would have done so knowing that the vast majority of the condo community would still be up and wide awake.

MOO

 

[Elley Mae]

What would the yeah sound in there be?

idk I have listened over and over and can't think of what it is, it is here at the 1:44 mark, you can hear the wiper blade (if that is what it is) 2 times then that sound.

 

[annalia]

I still can't clearly hear if he says "c**n", and like I said in a previous post, up until this incident,I haven't heard anyone refer to a black with that term in like 30 years. Its something from my parents generation. I have no idea if GZ uses Urban language,but could this be what he says?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cooffer



cooffer






A man who evokes a certain indescribable feeling of creepiness and douchebag-ity.

I don't know, doesn't really sound anything like that to me.

JMHO

 

[csziggy]

What would the yeah sound in there be?

That is shortly after GZ makes the comment about the a*****es always get away. There are some sounds of movement, then he says "yeah" and then goes into his directions to the dispatcher for how to find him at the mailboxes.

I have some thoughts about what GZ might have been doing and thinking at that point, but since they are just nebulous theories, I don't want to post them here. He does seem very distracted - listen to the recording or read the transcript where he is attempting to give directions. Either he is really bad at it or he was too distracted to do it clearly.

 

[katydid23]

The minute GZ made that call to the dispatcher it became a police matter. GZ had no proof of any crime, no proof TM was up to no good, no proof he did not live there or whether he was visiting there, just acted on a whim. It is up to LE to do their job. If the gun had gone off in a struggle and the bullet hit and killed the 13 year old someone else would have died. This is why LE tells you to stay where you are. There was no threat of imminent danger, no one screaming, yelling for help, nothing. GZ created his own crime scene by not listening. This was never a situation of life or death at the time GZ called it in. Had he left LE do their job they would have either caught up with TM or TM would have made it home safely and LE may never have found him. In which case it would have been resolved peacefully and isn't that what we all want? GZ did not use his head. Why would he follow? He told LE TM was headed toward the back gate. What was the worst that could have happened? He'd get away and no one would have been hurt.

GZ claims no one helped me but they did what they were told. They called 911. Had their tried to interfer they could have been lying face down in the grass because now they were the aggressor. Think of it that way folks. You think you are being a good guy chasing after someone who steals a purse, grab them and they turn and shoot you and yell to LE.....I feared for my life.

Chasing is LE's job....they're good at it. Let them do their job. It's your civic duty. jmo

I agree with all of what you said. All of it. But I still don't think that GZ was a racist coldblooded killer on a mission to find an innocent N***** to kill that night.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

To me, its sounds like foot steps hitting wet pavement , it was raining.

Thanks, now I have to wet down the sidewalk for my son in-law to run on. LOL LOL

 

[rotterdam]

True, and I agree. But let's say you did leave your vehicle. And maybe you thought you were protecting your neighborhood by keeping an eye on him while waiting for LE.

I think there is kind of a catch 22 going on here. We see so many cases here with missing victims or people killed in their homes. And we all wish that someone in their neighborhood had kept their eyes open and watched for anything suspicious. IF Trayvon had been an armed robber, then GZ would be a hero right now. But he wasn't, he was just a teen walking home from the snack store. GZ made a horrid set of choices that night. But I do not believe he is an evil man. I believe he was trying to protect his little neighborhood and was out of line. He should have been arrested for manslaughter that first night.

But all of this hatred and outrage, calling him a cold blooded brutal killer is out of line too, imo. IF there were 8 previous burglaries where the perps were thought to be black teens, then he was thinking he was on the right track. That does not make him a Klansmen. He was wrong to follow the kid, agreed. But once he did, and that was not ILLEGAL for him to do, but once he did, what if TM did join in a struggle? What if they were fighting over the gun once TM saw it in his waistband?

As for the racial profiling question--It is strange because most of my black friends are 100% behind racially profiling at the airport. They think that Middle Eastern looking travelers SHOULD be pulled out of line and searched because that is who has been blowing up our planes. So I think it is a little hypocritical for them to wonder why a watchman might be suspicious of a 6 ft 3 inch black teen in a hoodie that night. They cannot ignore the fact that the african amercan teens are committing violent crimes at 8 times the number of other teens. Until that stops, there will be some level of racial profiling.

Good post.
We all do profiling to some degree when we meet a stranger. Based on appearance which could include race but also many other factors. Generally a combination. And not solely on race only. Does not make you a racist though.
GZ did his profiling of Tray and so did Tray of GZ. And in Tray's mind GZ scared the bejesus out of him especially if he would have spotted the gun.

 

[Donjeta]

It is the circumstances that arouse suspicions. One white kid made me nervous at school because he wore the stereotypical trench coat even on very hot days. In Trayvons case, GZ saw a teen in a hoodie at night walking in the rain and looking around, according to him. Maybe he thought TM was casing the place.

And how much is a watchman going to know about someone they see walking in the apt. complex at night. If they had to know about them before they were suspicious nobody would ever be caught breaking and entering.

And him being a black teen did have something to do with it. We can claim that is racist, but the reality is that the last break ins that were solved were committed by black perps. We are going to look at Muslims when we search the airport lines, and at Hispanics when we look at people entering our borders. And at white men for pedophilia. That is reality. We can call it racial profiling, but it is what it is.

Nobody will ever be caught breaking and entering when they're just walking down the street to go home. You have to actually break and enter before you can be caught doing that.

I don't know but it seems to me from the list of GZ's 911 calls that he was a bit paranoid at times. He seemed to be calling 911 whenever he felt lonely or something.

I could be suspicious of someone that looks suspicious to me for some reason or another but it has never occurred to me that I should burden LE with my suspicion if I can clearly see the person is just walking and bothering nobody at the time. What are they going to do when they arrive? Arrest TM for walking while black?

 

[raeann]

The "at night" part bothers me. This is a little after 7 pm, not sometime after midnight. It had not been dark that long, correct? It also isn't as if Trayvon had been someone that was going to break into a condo that he would have done so knowing that the vast majority of the condo community would still be up and wide awake.

MOO

AND obviously, being from Florida and as it was raining....."no one" ever would be out of the house in the rain according to the GZ camp spin.

jmo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

That is shortly after GZ makes the comment about the a*****es always get away. There are some sounds of movement, then he says "yeah" and then goes into his directions to the dispatcher for how to find him at the mailboxes.

I have some thoughts about what GZ might have been doing and thinking at that point, but since they are just nebulous theories, I don't want to post them here. He does seem very distracted - listen to the recording or read the transcript where he is attempting to give directions. Either he is really bad at it or he was too distracted to do it clearly.

I am thinking "yeah" (he's going where I hoped he would or I know how to cut him off)

 

[katydid23]

The "at night" part bothers me. This is a little after 7 pm, not sometime after midnight. It had not been dark that long, correct? It also isn't as if Trayvon had been someone that was going to break into a condo that he would have done so knowing that the vast majority of the condo community would still be up and wide awake.

MOO

But in our neighborhood most of the recent burglaries have been in the afternoon and early evening. People break in while the families are most likely to be away from home. And the perps often case the areas during the early evevning so they will not look suspicious.

 

[Emeralgem]

Thanks, now I have to wet down the sidewalk for my son in-law to run on. LOL LOL

Hope he tells you to get up off that bench and run on the sidewalk yourself...LOL

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Hope he tells you to get up off that bench and run on the sidewalk yourself...LOL

That is probably what is going to happen. LOL LOL

 

[Sensei]

Thanks, now I have to wet down the sidewalk for my son in-law to run on. LOL LOL

I have to say, you must have a very accomodating son in law! My daughter in law (s) I have two, but either one of them would look at me like I had lost my mind if I asked such a thing LOL hat's off to you!

 

[uvamerica]

Thanks, now I have to wet down the sidewalk for my son in-law to run on. LOL LOL

:floorlaugh: I had my sons out on the sidewalk pretend fighting trying to simulate how Trayvon could have ended up face down with his arms under him. Until a woman drove by and asked if we needed any help, she had her cell phone out, ready to call 911 !!

 

[OneLove]

It is the circumstances that arouse suspicions. One white kid made me nervous at school because he wore the stereotypical trench coat even on very hot days. In Trayvons case, GZ saw a teen in a hoodie at night walking in the rain and looking around, according to him. Maybe he thought TM was casing the place.

And how much is a watchman going to know about someone they see walking in the apt. complex at night. If they had to know about them before they were suspicious nobody would ever be caught breaking and entering.

And him being a black teen did have something to do with it. We can claim that is racist, but the reality is that the last break ins that were solved were committed by black perps. We are going to look at Muslims when we search the airport lines, and at Hispanics when we look at people entering our borders. That is reality. We can call it racial profiling, but it is what it is.

I understand your 'nervousness' with the white kid in trench coat on a hot day in school. We call that being vigilant and aware. It is a healthy, protective reflex. But the distinction is did you whip out your phone and call 911 and tell them there was a suspicious student and expect them to come frisk/question him because of your heightened awareness?

I was told a LONG time ago that the police can not respond to everyone who would call in a 'suspicion' based on something that would clearly be seen as a bias. The person is not BREAKING ANY LAWS to be walking around looking different than what a person's particular comfort level allows.

As we have seen here at Websleuths, some people consider mere differences in fashion choices, such as style, piercings, tattoos, etc, to be "depraved", a word specifically used here by a poster. Life must be either very difficult for one with such an outlook OR very very limited in exposure.

Do we really want the police notified because my nephews and friends are visiting me from California? :floor laugh: One is a degreed landscape architect, one is a multi-degreed successful actor you have probably seen on television, both in late 20's, early 30's, but they dress "different" than anyone in my upscale waterfront neighborhood. And, yes, if either got stalked like Trayvon did, they wouldn't hesitate to ask what the stalker's problem was. If they got shot for taking a walk here, my rage and indignation would know no bounds. And if people said the things I've seen written here at Websleuths along the lines of they should have yassuh massah and run straight home, they caused it by being uppity, their teen missteps justified their shooting, their friends or family should have KEPT THEM INSIDE, such unbelievable crap all just to hold tight to extreme prejudice while DENYING that very prejudice, well, I can tell you I would be provoked to violence, no doubt about it.

 

[katydid23]

Nobody will ever be caught breaking and entering when they're just walking down the street to go home. You have to actually break and enter before you can be caught doing that.

I don't know but it seems to me from the list of GZ's 911 calls that he was a bit paranoid at times. He seemed to be calling 911 whenever he felt lonely or something.

I could be suspicious of someone that looks suspicious to me for some reason or another but it has never occurred to me that I should burden LE with my suspicion if I can clearly see the person is just walking and bothering nobody at the time. What are they going to do when they arrive? Arrest TM for walking while black?

Agree totally.He was paranoid and overly suspicious. And he was wrong to get out of his car and follow.

I am just trying to put a little objectivity into some of the absolute hatred and prematurity in sending him to death row for being a racist brutal killer.

I think he has issues and was in the wrong. But it bothers me that the black activists are trying to spin this as 'white racists hunting down innocent blacks.' They are ignoring their own part in this thing. As long as they ignore the out of control culture which praises violence and makes young blacks want to carry guns and use violence and jack cars then there is going to be racial profiling.

 

[Isabelle]

dispatcher never told him to stop. NEVER. :nono:Dispatcher told him we do not need you to do that.That means he can.

Dispatcher may have been instructed to use that phrase as it also covers the department's a$$, should there be a law suit.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I have to say, you must have a very accomodating son in law! My daughter in law (s) I have two, but either one of them would look at me like I had lost my mind if I asked such a thing LOL hat's off to you!

My plan is to make him listen to the tape a few times and get his curiosity up about those noises. LOL LOL

 

[Sensei]

:floorlaugh: I had my sons out on the sidewalk pretend fighting trying to simulate how Trayvon could have ended up face down with his arms under him. Until a woman drove by and asked if we needed any help, she had her cell phone out, ready to call 911 !!

OMG, HAHAHAHAHAHAH, I DID ask some of our EMT's what they would do if someone told them they had had their head hit against concrete and even that got me some looks like I was nuts....BTW, did anyone else hear Taafe the other night when suddenly the gash that needed stitches change to a contusion, which is nothing more than a huge bruise and would not bleed?

If I didn't think the man was lying thorugh his teeth, and trying to get his 15 minutes of fame, I just don't think I would like him, he is too belligerant IMO.