FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[belle3]

Apparently gz has obtained council out of orlando, according to jvm the name of attorney is craig sonner

 

[vlpate]

JMO but it appears that Zimmerman was playing "Barney Fife" and decided to use his one bullet. He had absolutely no business following and confronting this boy. He called 911, he should have just left it in LE's hands and backed off. Instead, he presented himself as a threat and confronted a teen walking home.

Just out of curiosity, and I'm being sincere, have you listened to the 911 call or read the police reports, or are you listening only to news reports. I'm curious because I have heard little news on the case and have only read reports for reference to statements made here - I wonder if that is why our views are so different - media can be such a formidable opponent to actual facts in many cases.

Again, I promise I am just curious what has led you to your current opinion. Thanks Lone

 

[uvamerica]

I have been thinking about how GZ's injuries could have occurred. I don't believe there was a fight at all. It's very possible that while GZ was chasing Trayvon, GZ tripped and fell therefore ending up with a broken nose and cuts. GZ tripping may have been the tipping point he got so infuriated he just shot Trayvon. ...just a theory ..

 

[rossva]

I believe Zimmerman claims the fact it was he, Zimmerman, pleading for his life, not Martin.

This is not absolutely true. I made a long post about this a few days ago explaining why I have asked alot of people over the years "If you were alone and held at gunpoint what would you do?" Almost everyone has answered that they would try to fight or talk their way out of the situation. When I asked why they said because they were afraid if they ran they would get shot in the back. Based on that knowledge and the fact that it appears that Trayvon was pleading for his life, IMO, Trayvon didn't run because because he did have a gun drawn on him and was afraid of getting shot if he ran. JMO, of course!

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Look at all this information the city has released on this case.

They have even released statements made by Zimmerman in their police reports.

The chief of police has stepped down.

The City asked for an independent review of the police dept today because of things they have learned.

The states Attorney has been taken off the case.

The Feds have launched an investigation.

But still a month later we do not know one simple fact. Where was this kid shot in the body?

We know the names and addresses and phone numbers of robbery victims but we don't know if Martin was shot in the stomach, the chest, the head or the back.

Why do they refuse to say where in the body he was shot?

Trayvon Martin Investigation
FAQ Letter

Dear Citizens:

There has been a lot of media attention to the recent incident where George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin. This is indeed a tragic situation and has caused a flood of questions and strong emotions from within our community, the region and nation. On behalf of the employees of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy and prayers go out to the family and friends of Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only image the pain Trayvon’s family must be going though. In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. . . Read More . . .
911 Calls

In no particular order
Call 1
Call 2
Call 3
Call 4
Call 5
Call 6
Call 7
Call 8
Reports

Twin Lakes Shooting Innitial Report
Retreat Neighborhood Notification
Update 1
Update 2
George Zimmerman 911 Call History
Response to ABC News
The Retreat at Twin Lakes Trespassing Issue
Burglary Reports
Neighborhood Watch Info

Burglary Prevention
Neighborhood Watch Program
Neighborhood Watch Handbook

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/frames/home_frames.html



Oh and I bet those homeowners are really happy about having their addresses and phone numbers put out there for any other would be robbers. But what the heck, the city was in a hurry to justify what Zimmerman did. I can understand them not taking the time to block those out.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Early on in this discussion - I will try to find it.
He was on the phone with his GF and she told him to run and he did.

Frankly I am not so sure now... what is real since Sharpton came on...

The girlfriend told him to run and he said he was not going to, but he was walking fast.

 

[raeann]

PLEASE....could we try to think through this criticism of this young girl? She was in a different CITY!!!! Which police number was she supposed to call? She could call 911 in her town and say what?????? " I was on the phone with my teen age boyfriend and he is SOMEWHERE in another city....I don't know the address or the name of the neighborhood....his dad's name is Mr. Martin, tho.....and um....well he said he saw someone when he was out walking and the phone call dropped and now he's not answering his phone." WHAT EXACTLY do you think 911 would say to her except don't ever call us again about your boyfriend problems!!!!

JMO....but this girl has NO REASON to lie and the PHONE RECORDS confirm everything she said about the time and the sequence of events she describes even coincides with what Zimmerman said about following Trayvon and about him "running" toward the other direction. The least we can do is NOT trash a poor young girl who is already traumatized by this event. again.....jmo

 

[LambChop]

Why would her parents not want her to go to the police station and make a statement? Why would they rather ABC do it? To my knowledge, her name has not been released. No one is vilifying her, but it's hard for any reasonable person to believe she felt fear for her boyfriend, didn't hear back from him, and didn't call the police to report he was, or even had been, in danger. Maybe she did, but the new investigation seems to find this a new development, from what I understand.

My comment that she went on with her life was in reference to the days before she found out he had been killed and didn't call the police, just to be clear. I've not cast aspersions on her one way or the other - I find the fact that an attorney is breaking the story on ABC highly suspect.

I believe she had to be hospitalized when she found out he had been killed and could not attend the wake. The parents contacted an attorney. If they live in Sanford they may well be aware of the politics within the police department. Children often go into shock when something like this happens and IMO she was overwhelmed with grief. I think this young woman's parents were trying to protect her and that is why her story was related to an attorney who she may have been more comfortable with relaying her story. In today's world we have to protect our children against the media spins and comments are already flying about her. Her parents did the right thing to try and protect her. jmo

 

[deelytful1]

Funny how this thread goes round and round yet I feel there is no debate necessary about the events of the evening BECAUSE GZ was told NOT to follow Trayvon AND although it was mentioned by someone in the thread that it was his JOB to do so, it was NOT. He was not a police officer and by all accounts I've read was a SELF appointed captain of the HOA watch.
A young boy (sorry, to me 17 is YOUNG) is dead because of GZs blatant disregard of LEs direction. One does this when they feel they are "above the law" IMHO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

But still a month later we do not know one simple fact. Where was this kid shot in the body?

The media has reported he was shot in the chest. Although that hasn't been officially confirmed AFAIK.

What I find odd is that the police report notes responders at the scene doing chest compressions on him.

I imagine a 9 mil would make a pretty significant chest wound, especially when shot at such a close range, so how do you do chest compressions in that situation?

Can any medical personnel on here help out? TIA.

 

[deelytful1]

I have been thinking about how GZ's injuries could have occurred. I don't believe there was a fight at all. It's very possible that while GZ was chasing Trayvon, GZ tripped and fell therefore ending up with a broken nose and cuts. GZ tripping may have been the tipping point he got so infuriated he just shot Trayvon. ...just a theory ..

true.. and he also could have fallen because he was high as a kite or drunk as a skunk but we will NEVER know since a thorough police investigation was never done :banghead:

 

[LambChop]

PLEASE....could we try to think through this criticism of this young girl? She was in a different CITY!!!! Which police number was she supposed to call? She could call 911 in her town and say what?????? " I was on the phone with my teen age boyfriend and he is SOMEWHERE in another city....I don't know the address or the name of the neighborhood....his dad's name is Mr. Martin, tho.....and um....well he said he saw someone when he was out walking and the phone call dropped and now he's not answering his phone." WHAT EXACTLY do you think 911 would say to her except don't ever call us again about your boyfriend problems!!!!

JMO....but this girl has NO REASON to lie and the PHONE RECORDS confirm everything she said about the time and the sequence of events she describes even coincides with what Zimmerman said about following Trayvon and about him "running" toward the other direction. The least we can do is NOT trash a poor young girl who is already traumatized by this event. again.....jmo

More importantly she is a minor who is an innocent witness. So we need to be aware that we are not violating any TOS. jmo

 

[Adrienne37]

I'd like to add one other thing about this little girl - she is a victim right now as well, just as Trayvon's mother, father, and the remainder of his family are. To continually sit here and bash this young girl, who is just a child herself, is just plain wrong. Good grief. It's pretty pathetic that everybody and everything related to Trayvon has to be criticized while trying desperately to paint George Zimmerman in a positive light. I'd like to invite anyone to walk a mile in Trayvon's family or girlfriend's shoes right now. Try to imagine for one moment how you would feel if it was your loved one who was brutally murdered by a gun-toting vigilante hell bent on one thing and one thing only and that is that the a**holes ain't gonna get away.

 

[jjenny]

I believe Zimmerman claims the fact it was he, Zimmerman, pleading for his life, not Martin.

Yes, Zimmerman claims he was the one screaming "help."

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I have been thinking about how GZ's injuries could have occurred. I don't believe there was a fight at all. It's very possible that while GZ was chasing Trayvon, GZ tripped and fell therefore ending up with a broken nose and cuts. GZ tripping may have been the tipping point he got so infuriated he just shot Trayvon. ...just a theory ..

In the police report an officer states that Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. I'm not sure how a fall would cause both injury's.

http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/martinpolicreport.pdf

 

[belle3]

After everything is said and done i believe mr. Zimmerman will be charged with aggravated manslaughter of a child. His irresponsible actions directly led to the death of a child. Thats my mo.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Funny how this thread goes round and round yet I feel there is no debate necessary about the events of the evening BECAUSE GZ was told NOT to follow Trayvon AND although it was mentioned by someone in the thread that it was his JOB to do so, it was NOT. He was not a police officer and by all accounts I've read was a SELF appointed captain of the HOA watch.
A young boy (sorry, to me 17 is YOUNG) is dead because of GZs blatant disregard of LEs direction. One does this when they feel they are "above the law" IMHO

And don't forget, according to the police chief GZ wasn't even on neighborhood patrol that night. So he wasn't even acting in that semi-official capacity.

 

[LambChop]

Funny how this thread goes round and round yet I feel there is no debate necessary about the events of the evening BECAUSE GZ was told NOT to follow Trayvon AND although it was mentioned by someone in the thread that it was his JOB to do so, it was NOT. He was not a police officer and by all accounts I've read was a SELF appointed captain of the HOA watch.
A young boy (sorry, to me 17 is YOUNG) is dead because of GZs blatant disregard of LEs direction. One does this when they feel they are "above the law" IMHO

Obviously WS considers him a child because his case is in the Crimes - Spotlighting Children's thread.

 

[jjenny]

I have been thinking about how GZ's injuries could have occurred. I don't believe there was a fight at all. It's very possible that while GZ was chasing Trayvon, GZ tripped and fell therefore ending up with a broken nose and cuts. GZ tripping may have been the tipping point he got so infuriated he just shot Trayvon. ...just a theory ..

There are witnesses who saw both of them fighting. So what could you possibly be basing your scenarios on?

 

[Adrienne37]

And don't forget, according to the police chief GZ wasn't even on neighborhood patrol that night. So he wasn't even acting in that semi-official capacity.

The police chief needs to correlate his responses with the remaining members of his police force because yet again, from the article that I quoted earlier, the neighborhood watch liaison was interviewed and had this to say....

In Sanford, she said, watch groups are not even supposed to make the rounds. That is the job of another kind of volunteer organization, Citizens on Patrol, whose members are selected and trained by the police and who drive the streets in a specially marked vehicle. Members of that group, Ms. Dorival said, “are armed only with a radio.”

he manual warns that watch members should “not attempt to apprehend a person committing a crime or to investigate a suspicious activity.” It should be emphasized to members of patrols, the materials state, that “they do not possess police power and they shall not carry weapons.” The consequences of not following the guidelines are severe, the manual states: “Each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46830953.../#.T2z67RH2b2Y