FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[Belinda]

I would like more information on the autopsy. Where did the bullet enter? What angle? Probable distance from shooter? This information hasn't been released, to my knowledge, and I think there is a reason it hasn't been released. I missed a great number of posts due to computer problems, so maybe it has been released and I haven't heard about it.

 

[belle3]

i believe the iphone is run on a different operating system and are not android. U can buy an unlocked iphone and insert your sim card and use it. So it is possiblr to have an i phone with tmobile service, you just wont have the same speed and data and yadda yadda. I also believe on the picture of the call log it said something about tmobile to tmobile calling, so i believe he does have tmobile. Correct me if im wrong. would go back and look but busy posting florida law and statutes around this case.

 

[Ironhorse]

Well, if this is true than a private citizen should be accountable for their actions just as a police officer who shoots an unarmed innocent citizen would be. But then there is a difference, isn't there, because a police officer can be identified right away and regardless of who you are if they want to question you you must stop and cooperate. TM was under no obligation to this man and TM's right superceded GZ right to pursue him. There paths just did not cross, GZ pursued TM. Big difference. jmo

Yes, a private citizen is equally accountable for their actions just the same as a police officer. But not all police officers wear uniforms and there have been instances where they didn't announce they was an officer and was killed. There is laws already on the books that deal with such instances and whenever such situations occur the defendant is not held responsible for the failure of a Police officer to identify him/herself.

No, a police officer doesn't have the right to just stop anyone and ask them questions. Police officers are governed by specific rules that outline what they can do... Where as a Private citizen is not restrained by such rules, they can ask anyone walking down any street whatever they like. Ever hear of the first Amendment?

Now was Mr. Martin obliged to answer Mr Zimmerman... No! Just because a person ask another a question it doesn't mean you have to answer. However, failure to do so is likely to arouse suspicion depending on the circumstances.

 

[Talina]

It's not that I'm laying blame on Mr. Martin but it would be foolish to not recognize that some of his behavior very likely added suspicion to the situation Mr. Zimmerman was confronted with. Does this wash away Mr. Zimmerman's responsibility to conduct himself in a professional manner, no it does not. However given the totality of the situation it does demonstrate how various missteps on both parties fault likely lead to this unfortunate situation...

Again Mr. Martin wasn't some child he was a 17 year old man.

I never referred to my son at the age of 17 as a man. Sure, he was on his way and jokingly I always referred to him as my "man child". But truthfully, that is what he was at the age of 17.

A 17 yr old female is a young woman and a 17 yr old male is a young man. There is a huge difference between being a young woman and a woman, being a young man and a man. The physical, mental, emotional and maturity levels of a 17 yr old are still not fully developed.

To say he is a man suggests, to me, that he is on even level playing field with the 28 year old Mr. Zimmerman and I just don't believe that to be the case.

Can a younger aged person commit "adult" crimes? Yes, they can but that doesn't make them an adult. I bring this up because of a prior post on the previous thread where you mention or ask someone if they have seen a 13 or 14 or whatever age you referenced holding up a convenience store - or whatever examples you gave. That does not make those children grownups.

It is also completely irrelevant to his situation since Trayvon was not committing any crime whatsoever. Nor was GZ even saying on the 911 tape that he thought Trayvon was committing a crime. He just thought he looked suspicious. Based on the conversation the girlfriend has releayed, it is obviousl Trayvon had the same impression of GZ that GZ had of him. GZ was acting suspicious. The difference though is that GZ had a gun to use and Trayvon didn't.

IMO

 

[songline]

I am not a fan of Al Sharpton either and often question his motives. However, had this case been handled properly to begin with, it would not have been necessary to have Sharpton involved or rallies or school walk-outs. Sanford PD has brought this on themselves. I don't feel the least bit sorry for them or GZ.

Based on the law I read on the previous thread the LE had nothing to arrest him for.
I also felt LE should have arrested him… but the more I read the clears thing get.
But it is still muddy.

 

[rossva]

What you say very well could have happened. It's just as likely that Martin thought he heard Zimmerman utter a racial slur towards him, and swung at him. JMHO.

FWIW - that is exactly what I think too. GZ reached out and grabbed him by the arm and Trayvon swung. I would have too. I don't think Trayvon saw or knew GZ had a gun.JMHO

 

[songline]

Tht is what I want to know too...Why did not the boy just run home?
Why did he go to confront GZ???

Yeah, that "boy" was sure asking for trouble. But why not ask GZ why he stalked down and killed the poor fellow?

GREAT POST :fence:

 

[belle3]

Not answering questions, is OK but...but but...but...if I was on a phone with Girlfriend who tells him you run... you may consider running home if it was only a short distance away, or telling GF to call for help... or anything other then going to confront the man who is following you...
I would never do that part NEVER.
<modsnip>.

<modsnip> why did gz follow him? he brought a gun to a fist fight. Unfortunately, gz lack of common sense and complete lack of responsibility resulted in the death of an unarmed child. I call him child, because according to fl statute the killing of a human being under the age of 18 is designated the murder of a child.

 

[annalia]

<modsnip>

The worse that he, his parents and friend can be made to look, then it makes it not so bad that he was murdered, even if it's all just made up. It's classic victim blaming rationale.

JMHO

 

[Ironhorse]

BBM

That is hardly a comparable set of facts.

McKinley was in her own home, alone with her infant son, with an armed intruder ready to break down her door. The operator told her she could not tell her to shoot, but said "you do what you have to do to keep yourself safe".

GZ acknowledged the operator's statement "we don't need you to do that" but proceeded to follow Trayvon anyway. It may not have been illegal to disregard the instruction, but it was flat-out stupid and unnecessary - unlike what Sarah McKinley did to protect herself and her son.

Yes, McKinley was in her own home at the time. However, it would have been no different had she been in her car or setting in the park... And McKinely didn't know the intruder was armed before he come crashing through the door... Unless of course she had X-ray vision and can see through walls.

However, I agree it would have been stupid for Mr. Zimmerman to ignore the request. And we don't know for a fact he did... He may have been tackled by Mr. Martin on his way back to his car... There is a great deal of unknowns surrounding this incident...

 

[belle3]

and i really think we should refrain from calling the murder victim <modsnip> because there is certainly no proof or evidence of this. Please. He is someones child that was senselessly killed. A little respect. I am sorry I actually repeated it.

 

[annalia]

What you say very well could have happened. It's just as likely that Martin thought he heard Zimmerman utter a racial slur towards him, and swung at him. JMHO.

If this is about what GZ uttered on the phone, there is no way that Trayvon heard any of that. First of all, GZ muttered it under his breath and more importantly they weren't even close to each other at the time.

So GZ would have called him another racial slur as he came up upon him?

If Trayvon heard GZ utter a racial slur then he was obviously defending himself.

 

[Belinda]

Based on the law I read on the previous thread the LE had nothing to arrest him for.
I also felt LE should have arrested him… but the more I read the clears thing get.
But it is still muddy.

The only thing clear to me is that no investigation was done, much less an arrest made. They were going to sweep it under the carpet until the public got involved. They have a history of doing this and were going to do it again. Why they felt the need to protect GZ is beyond me, but several suggestions have been made regarding that point. GZ and TM were not treated equally. TM was drug and alcohol tested. GZ was not and he was the shooter. That tells me a lot. There are a lot of things the PD didn't do that they should have. I'm sure GZ was thrilled about the way the PD went about investigating (such as changing witness statements) and thought he was home free. He's not. People are not going to stand for this kind of outrage.

 

[Belinda]

Originally Posted by rossva
What you say very well could have happened. It's just as likely that Martin thought he heard Zimmerman utter a racial slur towards him, and swung at him. JMHO.

Even if this is true and TM hit GZ (and I seriously doubt this) that is not justification to shoot someone. What kind of sissy boy is afraid for his life because some kid punched him in the nose for acting like an ?

 

[LambChop]

Tht is what I want to know too...Why did not the boy just run home?
Why did he go to confront GZ???

Where is there evidence TM confronted GZ. From GZ call to LE and TM's gf testimony it was GZ doing the confronting. If someone is following you, catching up to you even though you are walking fast why would you run. TM had no reason to run. He wasn't doing anything wrong.

The moment GZ chose to follow TM it was TM that had more rights than GZ. GZ had no authority to stop and question TM.

For the want of "they aways get away" a life was lost:

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the message was lost.
For want of a message the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

jmo

 

[rossva]

Sort of off topic, but similar. Why, oh why does the media, etc, when trying to make the public aware of a missing person, and current. recent pictures are avaialble, show pictures of that person that are years and years old?

Watching Nancy Grace last night, she was highlighting the case of a missing 15 year old in Santa Clara County, CA, yet she kept running a clip of her as a 6-8 year old in a dance contest. I seriously doubt anyone would id her by those clips.

Makes no sense.

I am immediately calling on ALL MEDIA to stop showing pictures of ANY VICTIM outside of the age that they were when they were deceased! No more showing toddlers as infants! No more showing 10 year olds at 7 years old! No more showing 13-year-olds at 10-years-old. No more showing 16-year-olds at 13-years-old! I demand an immediate STOP to all of it! Only the ages of the child at the age they became deceased are allowed to be shown from here on out!

 

[annalia]

Having a right to be in the neighborhood is one thing.
When you feel you are being followed, it is no longer a walk in the neighborhood. HUGE difference.
It is a need to go to safety, or a need for something else.

But so what?

He DID run at first. Then if Trayvon walked fast, thought he could still get away, how does that change anything or make him guilty, or that it proves he was an aggressor?

I really don't get this.

There only one proper way that a victim must use to get way or it's their fault?

 

[songline]

Tracy Martin was out for dinner with his girlfriend when Tray was murdered and not home.
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20581404,00.html

That is not a reason for the family not to permit the police to access TM's phone.
Father can be out to dinner and later take a check on his kid.
But IF nobody went looking for the boy until the next day it may shed another light on them. Just wondering...

 

[Adrienne37]

Even if this is true and TM hit GZ (and I seriously doubt this) that is not justification to shoot someone. What kind of sissy boy is afraid for his life because some kid punched him in the nose for acting like an ?

I hope Trayvon got in at least one punch before Zimmerman brutally murdered him and to answer your second question about why type of sissy boy is afraid, ones just like Zimmerman, the ones that think they are billy bada$$ because they are licensed to carry a gun.

It's ridiculous to think that Trayvon would have walked up to Zimmerman and punched him in the nose. Why would a 140 lb kid walk up to a grown man twice his size and proceed to punch him in the face? I believe that about as much as I believe that pigs fly.

 

[Velouria]

Yes, McKinley was in her own home at the time. However, it would have been no different had she been in her car or setting in the park... And McKinely didn't know the intruder was armed before he come crashing through the door... Unless of course she had X-ray vision and can see through walls.

Or perhaps Ms. McKinley was gifted with the same rare ability that George Zimmerman possesses - the one that allowed him to know that Trayvon was "on drugs" and "up to no good".

However, I agree it would have been stupid for Mr. Zimmerman to ignore the request. And we don't know for a fact he did... He may have been tackled by Mr. Martin on his way back to his car... There is a great deal of unknowns surrounding this incident...

Did the police report state that GZ claims he was attacked from behind?