FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

[songline]

Walking faster doesn't fall under acting with caution?

Funny, earlier on Trayvon was accussed of acting suspiciouly becasue he DID run away the first time when GZ was still in his car, then he was accused of acting suspiciosuly for putting up his hoodie, now he's being accused for not getting away from this adult stalker fast enough.

The victim here escalated the situation because he didn't run fast enough to get away from his chaser. I can honestly say that I've never heard that on any case that I've followed.

In one of the links you will find that TM wal coming closer to GZ - maybe just to see who was following him?.
So while TM was walking faster some of the time. It seems it was not the entire story.
I wish he did listen to his GF.

 

[Ironhorse]

But there is no proof that TM was yelling im going to kill you! The only thing we know is that someone was yelling help. and in the situation it can be said it was either one of them. But gz was possibly defending himself from fists from a teenager with a loaded firearm That is still disproportionate. If he was unsure of what tm was carrying then his duty was to call the police and not enter into a confrontation that led to the death of a child.

True, there is no proof Mr. Martin ever said anything of the sort at least nothing that's ever been made public. I was speaking of verbal threats in general and that of Deadly force. A verbal threat in itself doesn't constitute the use of deadly force. However, if it's used in combination with an act of aggression or implied it might be justify the use of deadly force. It all depends upon the totality of the circumstances.

The courts have recognized that a fist blow well placed can be as deadly as if a weapon had been used. So, disproportionate as it might seem the courts have ruled the use of a weapon in self defense when being struck by a fist can be justified...

See, it all really hinges on the totality of circumstances as to whether something is justified by the reasonable person clause... And since we are not privy to all the info surrounding this Zimmerman/Martin incident we can't say one way or the other.

 

[annalia]

So now that some have established that Tray's parents ( who we shouldn't need to remind anyone are the victims here) don't meet the proper standards when it comes to a murdered child, (and I sincerely hope and pray that none of ever have to walk in their shoes,) what real facts of that night does it change?

We've all seen the fact that Tray was a good kid, as opposed to GZ's documented past aggression issues, so because Tray's parents didn't act as some believe they should have, that now makes Tray not a good kid?

JMHO

 

[annalia]

In one of the links you will find that TM wal coming closer to GZ - maybe just to see who was following him?.
So while TM was walking faster some of the time. It seems it was not the entire story.
I wish he did listen to his GF.

Trayvon came closer when GZ was in the car, when GZ was first following him his car. It's not a stretch to see that he was probably trying to figure out who it was that was following him.

And again, it was GZ's paranoia that said Tray was checking him out as if Tray was up to no good. Is GZ not smart enough to even consider that if you're the one following a kid that they might take a closer look to see who you are? And then if they don't recognize this stranger following you in their car, they might get scared and run off???

JMHO

 

[LambChop]

Nope. IMO, The fact he fell asleep would bolster the claim he just didn't care enough to look.

But, you asked for a quote and a link that showed Tracy Martin did not look for Trayvon Martin. I provided both. You didn't ask for excuses why he didn't.


I want to be clear here. I was answering your request for the quote and link. Whether or not Tracy Martin did or did not look for is son is totally irrelevant to this case. I am not blaming Tracy Martin in any way, shape or form for the death of his son.

Why would he not care if he thought his son went to the movies with a relative. He did try to call and got no answer which you would expect if his son was in a movie theater. Considerate people turn their phones off and this seems to be the type of family in which TM was raised. Respectful and considerate. If you trust your child why would you worry. TM had a phone, if he were in trouble his Dad may have felt Trayvon would have called him.

This was not a child who was looking for trouble which shows his parents DID care about him. Why are we being so critical of the parents? I don't get it. jmo

 

[Belinda]

I have been personally impressed by the restraint shown by Trayvon's parents. If it were my daughter, I am afraid I would be unable to behave as well as they have. I would probably be ranting and raving like some maniac. You can see the raw pain in them, yet they just want justice. They seem like very nice people to me.

 

[Adrienne37]

There's no reason whatsoever for the police to have not made their rounds at that complex after Trayvon was murdered to attempt to locate someone who knew him. Yet again, this is another ball dropped by the Sanford Police Department. Perhaps on previous trips to the movies Trayvon had spent the night with his cousin so it may have been conceivable that Mr. Martin thought that is exactly what he did. Good grief, these people can't win for losing. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for them.

 

[BiancaS]

I don't want to post anything not allowed, but Zimmerman's "friend" FT has a mugshot online for a domestic violence order being violated. Search his name with 2 a's and two f's and you will find it. Not recent, but it is in Seminole County. He obviously is not a stranger to violence.....

 

[songline]

Trayvon came closer when GZ was in the car, when GZ was first following him his car. It's not a stretch to see that he was probably trying to figure out who it was that was following him.

And again, it was GZ's paranoia that said Tray was checking him out as if Tray was up to no good. Is GZ not smart enough to even consider that if you're the one following a kid that they might take a closer look to see who you are? And then if they don't recognize this stranger following you in their car, they might get scared and run off???

JMHO

I just would never go checking out anyone who seems to be following me.
I would just get going fast from the start, like GF told him to.
this does not excuse GZ at all. he should not be with gun in pocket.
Locensed or not, you call the cops. If you must shoot you shoot the leg so he cant run. JMO

<modsnip>

 

[songline]

Why would he not care if he thought his son went to the movies with a relative. He did try to call and got no answer which you would expect if his son was in a movie theater. Considerate people turn their phones off and this seems to be the type of family in which TM was raised. Respectful and considerate. If you trust your child why would you worry. TM had a phone, if he were in trouble his Dad may have felt Trayvon would have called him.

This was not a child who was looking for trouble which shows his parents DID care about him. Why are we being so critical of the parents? I don't get it. jmo

IF I did not get an answer form a 17 year old I would be calling till I got one.
But never would I go to bed until I got one. At least I would set an alarm to get up and check again

 

[ynotdivein]

I am locking this thread up for a few minutes to give you guys a breather.

 

[ynotdivein]

This is a victim-friendly forum. That includes everyone who was victimized by this shooting--Trayvon, his family and his girlfriend.

Wild speculations and attempts to assign motive to, question the intent of, or blame the victims in any way must stop now. There will be no further warnings. You will find yourself on a TO and if necessary we will close down the thread.

Stereotyping these players is downright embarrassing. Cut it out.

The constant back and forth between posters is unacceptable. This is not a debate, it's a discussion of the FACTS as we know them. The idea is to discuss possibilities with the information we have, but not start or perpetuate rumors that are not based in any fact.

If another poster makes you anxious or frustrated, that is why we have the ignore feature.

Imagine this is your family and your child when you are not sure what to do and think how you would like your case discussed; you will make the right decision every time.

I'm bumping the opening post.

Please continue here.

Please remember the rules. Please post links where applicable. Also, please be careful with the discussion regarding potential drug use and or racist comments. We don't want to start rumors. The potential drug use has been raised in MSM, but it was the personal opinion of someone that just listened to the 911 tapes, so let's not carry it too far - it is discussable, but keep it in context please.

If you have questions or concerns, please PM a mod and they will give you a hand.

Thanks,

Salem

Thread 1

Thread 2


Media Thread



And please heed Ynot's warning:






Thread 3

 

[belle3]

peeks head in.........

 

[Adrienne37]

Sharpton promises more protests over Fla. shooting

http://www.newsday.com/news/nation/sharpton-promises-more-protests-over-fla-shooting-1.3620996

 

[momshrink]

*whispering* is it okay to come back in? Promise I'll be good.

 

[Adrienne37]

Trayvon Martin case: New Black Panthers offer $10,000 bounty for capture of George Zimmerman...


http://www.dailyamerican.com/os-trayvon-martin-new-black-panthers-protest-20120324,0,7014721.story

 

[belle3]

*whispering* is it okay to come back in? Promise I'll be good.

me too :blushing:

 

[Belinda]

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — I thought my son would be much older before I had to tell him about the Black Male Code. He's only 12, still sleeping with stuffed animals, still afraid of the dark. But after the Trayvon Martin tragedy, I needed to explain to my child that soon people might be afraid of him.

We were in the car on the way to school when a story about Martin came on the radio. "The guy who killed him should get arrested. The dead guy was unarmed!" my son said after hearing that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman had claimed self-defense in the shooting in Sanford, Fla.

We listened to the rest of the story, describing how Zimmerman had spotted Martin, who was 17, walking home from the store on a rainy night, the hood of his sweatshirt pulled over his head. When it was over, I turned off the radio and told my son about the rules he needs to follow to avoid becoming another Trayvon Martin — a black male who Zimmerman assumed was "suspicious" and "up to no good."

As I explained it, the Code goes like this:

Always pay close attention to your surroundings, son, especially if you are in an affluent neighborhood where black folks are few. Understand that even though you are not a criminal, some people might assume you are, especially if you are wearing certain clothes.

Never argue with police, but protect your dignity and take pride in humility. When confronted by someone with a badge or a gun, do not flee, fight, or put your hands anywhere other than up.

Please don't assume, son, that all white people view you as a threat. America is better than that. Suspicion and bitterness can imprison you. But as a black male, you must go above and beyond to show strangers what type of person you really are.

I was far from alone in laying out these instructions. Across the country this week, parents were talking to their children, especially their black sons, about the Code. It's a talk the black community has passed down for generations, an evolving oral tradition from the days when an errant remark could easily cost black people their job, their freedom, or sometimes their life.

Much more at link:
http://entertainment.verizon.com/ne...ass&action=5&lang=en&_LT=UNLC_NKNWU00L5_UNEWS

So sad that this must be taught to children.

 

[Adrienne37]

Trayvon Martin: New photo, details of George Zimmerman's employment

Two sources have confirmed to the Orlando Sentinel that Zimmerman is, or until recently was, an employee at the Maitland office of Digital Risk, LLC, a mortgage risk-management firm.

http://www.dailyamerican.com/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-job-20120323,0,368034.story

 

[LolaMoon08]

I have a lot to do today, so I just want to put something out there. I'm going to take Trayvon's race and his age out of it. With everything we know to date, if Trayvon would have been the son of a Sanford Police officer, would Zimmerman have walked out of that station a free man that night?

If Trayvon was the son of a Sanford Police officer, would there have been this many mistakes that we know of so far? Zimmerman's clothes not being collected as evidence as one?

Another question I have to ask, I believe that Zimmerman would have had to sign a release form from the EMS not to be transported to the hospital that night if he had visible injuries? Actually, a woman who had been in a mild fender bender I had witnesses had to sign a release form from EMS when she chose not to go to the hospital. She had no visible injuries.