GUILTY FL - Chance Walsh, 7 wks, North Port, 7 Oct 2015 #2

[perfectingpink]

I am still going to search more articles because I need to reconcile with myself with why I remember Duane being face down vs. face up. (At the time I read it I started to point it out but was distracted and did not.)

As far as Duane's nose bleed, I have done some research and consulted with an Infectious Disease Consultant. As a result, I believe if the nose bleed was indeed related to Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (DIC) it would more likely to be related to an injury vs infection (but still very unlikely). The probable cause of the nose bleed is most likely related to the kidney infection but in the fact that the kideny's control blood pressure therefore if the kidney's are taxed, blood pressure would rise causing the nose bleed. I hope this makes sense. I am trying to stay within being able to say "my opinion" and am afraid it is taking away from the facts of what I learned.

(As an FYI, the Infectious Disease Consultant is my father. He is not verified on WS, however he is recognized in national/universal literature. Really not bragging (even though I KNOW he hung the moon!) I just want to validate my source.

 

[La Louve]

When my son was circumcised the care of it was pretty straight forward. We weren't told to really do any extra cleaning. Obviously if poop got on it, to clean it off and whatnot. But no special cleaning. We were just told to put some vaseline on the diaper so it wouldn't stick to him.

I am going to call B.S. on the "botched" circumcision story though with these people.

BBM That comment of hers is just like every other thing she says that deflects any responsibility away from herself and onto someone else. IOW in her mind it was someone else's fault that Duane died, not hers. I call BS too.

 

[La Louve]

i read an article which described duane's condition when emt arrived at the home. he was lying on the floor between the door and the wall (???), and blood was coming from his nose and mouth. i believe it said that she had taken him to the doctor, and the doctor said he was all right. I can't recall all of the details. It was difficult to read. At the time i'd been reading other articles, and already was upset. So i closed the tab quickly. If anyone comes across that article, please post the link.

bbm

wtf?????

 

[CharlestonGal]

I am still going to search more articles because I need to reconcile with myself with why I remember Duane being face down vs. face up. (At the time I read it I started to point it out but was distracted and did not.)

As far as Duane's nose bleed, I have done some research and consulted with an Infectious Disease Consultant. As a result, I believe if the nose bleed was indeed related to Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation (DIC) it would more likely to be related to an injury vs infection (but still very unlikely). The probably cause of the nose bleed is most likely related to the kidney infection but in the fact that the kideny's control blood pressure therefore if the kidney's are taxed, blood pressure would rise causing the nose bleed. I hope this makes sense. I am trying to stay within being able to say "my opinion" and am afraid it is taking away from the facts of what I learned.

(As an FYI, the Infectious Disease Consultant is my father. He is not verified on WS, however he is recognized in national/universal literature. Really not bragging (even though I KNOW he hung the moon!) I just want to validate my source.

DIC is readily and obviously apparent when we open a body at autopsy. You can't miss it and it would most definitely be noted in the autopsy findings if it were present. DIC was not noted in this case.

Also, I see a lot of speculation that Duane's kidney infection was from an ascending infection from the urinary tract or circumcision. In an older child or adult, most kidney infections do result from ascending infection in the urinary tract, or blockage somewhere in the tract due to stones or other obstructions.

In infants, however, kidney infections sometimes arise spontaneously from within the retroperitoneum and do not involve the lower tract (urethra, bladder, or ureters) at all. This phenomenon is not well understood, but it does rarely arise in infants.

I think Duane's death was caused by multiple factors. He was 3 weeks premature so was a little more fragile than a full term baby. His mother's drug use during pregnancy likely compromised his fetal development to some degree, as evidenced by the rib malformations, and he may have had some immune system comprise, or disorder of complement factors that caused easy bleeding (the blood coming from the nose). He may simply have been unable to combat an acute episode of pyelonephritis. The ME didn't note anything unusual with the glomeruli, and did not note glomerulonephritis in the report. Nor did he note urethritis, cystitis, or ureteritis, which makes me suspect a rare case of spontaneous pyelonephritis originating the retroperitoneum.

This condition is treatable, if caught early, with IV antibiotics. The infant would have been irritable, uninterested in feeding, feverish, and tender in the abdominal region and flanks. A thorough exam would have picked it up, but pediatricians do not expect this condition to be present and may have written if off to a mild viral infection that would run its course in due time. That's the case 99.5% of the time, but that 0.5% of undetected serious infection will bite you in the azz every time.

The ME did note rib deformity, but ruled out trauma as the cause. I personally suspect the rib deformity may have been due to drug use during a critical time of fetal development.

Also, had the death been caused by sepsis, we would have listed the cause of death as sepsis due to acute pyelonephritis, manner of death as natural.

 

[La Louve]

Just out of curiosity, I googled the ME's name and found an interesting site related to the death of Murray Cohen in Sarasota County.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Thank you, Charlestongal. We need you in every thread.

:loveyou:

 

[La Louve]

DIC is readily and obviously apparent when we open a body at autopsy. You can't miss it and it would most definitely be noted in the autopsy findings if it were present. DIC was not noted in this case.

Also, I see a lot of speculation that Duane's kidney infection was from an ascending infection from the urinary tract or circumcision. In an older child or adult, most kidney infections do result from ascending infection in the urinary tract, or blockage somewhere in the tract due to stones or other obstructions.

In infants, however, kidney infections sometimes arise spontaneously from within the retroperitoneum and do not involve the lower tract (urethra, bladder, or ureters) at all. This phenomenon is not well understood, but it does rarely arise in infants.

I think Duane's death was caused by multiple factors. He was 3 weeks premature so was a little more fragile than a full term baby. His mother's drug use during pregnancy likely compromised his fetal development to some degree, as evidenced by the rib malformations, and he may have had some immune system comprise, or disorder of complement factors that caused easy bleeding (the blood coming from the nose). He may simply have been unable to combat an acute episode of pyelonephritis. The ME didn't note anything unusual with the glomeruli, and did not note glomerulonephritis in the report. Nor did he note urethritis, cystitis, or ureteritis, which makes me suspect a rare case of spontaneous pyelonephritis originating the retroperitoneum.

This condition is treatable, if caught early, with IV antibiotics. The infant would have been irritable, uninterested in feeding, feverish, and tender in the abdominal region and flanks. A thorough exam would have picked it up, but pediatricians do not expect this condition to be present and may have written if off to a mild viral infection that would run its course in due time. That's the case 99.5% of the time, but that 0.5% of undetected serious infection will bite you in the azz every time.

The ME did note rib deformity, but ruled out trauma as the cause. I personally suspect the rib deformity may have been due to drug use during a critical time of fetal development.

Also, had the death been caused by sepsis, we would have listed the cause of death as sepsis due to acute pyelonephritis, manner of death as natural.

Thank you for this post. In your experience, would an infected circumcision wound cause acute pyelonephritis in a 2 week old baby boy? And if the circumcision site was infected would that not be noted in the autopsy? I would assume it would be inflamed and possibly pus-laden?

ETA more questions
And if KB had really taken Duane to the doc in the days before his death, wouldn't a doc have noticed that Duane's circumcision was not healing well? Would acute pyelonephritis present with a high fever? Would vomiting be a symptom? thanks!

 

[perfectingpink]

DIC is readily and obviously apparent when we open a body at autopsy. You can't miss it and it would most definitely be noted in the autopsy findings if it were present. DIC was not noted in this case.

Also, I see a lot of speculation that Duane's kidney infection was from an ascending infection from the urinary tract or circumcision. In an older child or adult, most kidney infections do result from ascending infection in the urinary tract, or blockage somewhere in the tract due to stones or other obstructions.

In infants, however, kidney infections sometimes arise spontaneously from within the retroperitoneum and do not involve the lower tract (urethra, bladder, or ureters) at all. This phenomenon is not well understood, but it does rarely arise in infants.

I think Duane's death was caused by multiple factors. He was 3 weeks premature so was a little more fragile than a full term baby. His mother's drug use during pregnancy likely compromised his fetal development to some degree, as evidenced by the rib malformations, and he may have had some immune system comprise, or disorder of complement factors that caused easy bleeding (the blood coming from the nose). He may simply have been unable to combat an acute episode of pyelonephritis. The ME didn't note anything unusual with the glomeruli, and did not note glomerulonephritis in the report. Nor did he note urethritis, cystitis, or ureteritis, which makes me suspect a rare case of spontaneous pyelonephritis originating the retroperitoneum.

This condition is treatable, if caught early, with IV antibiotics. The infant would have been irritable, uninterested in feeding, feverish, and tender in the abdominal region and flanks. A thorough exam would have picked it up, but pediatricians do not expect this condition to be present and may have written if off to a mild viral infection that would run its course in due time. That's the case 99.5% of the time, but that 0.5% of undetected serious infection will bite you in the azz every time.

The ME did note rib deformity, but ruled out trauma as the cause. I personally suspect the rib deformity may have been due to drug use during a critical time of fetal development.

Also, had the death been caused by sepsis, we would have listed the cause of death as sepsis due to acute pyelonephritis, manner of death as natural.

Thank you so much for your information. In your opinion, what is the likelihood the DX of rib malformation being a poor DX and abuse was the actual factor in the deformation of his ribs.

 

[perfectingpink]

I have to add...Charlestongal is my new go to in medical related cases! Charleston, you really should think of becoming verified! Your information in this case is not only spot on, but validated by those who are personally verified by me. :cheerful:

 

[bessie]

bbm

wtf?????

My recollection was not entirely accurate. Here's the article I referenced.

According to interviews, police records and investigatory documents:

Early that afternoon, Duane's parents called 911 and reported that he was unresponsive.

A North Port paramedic found Duane in his parents' bedroom, lying face up on the ground between the playpen and the door. His heart was not beating.

Duane was pale with dark colored patches on his skin. Blood was coming from his nostrils.

He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Bury told paramedics that Duane had been vomiting earlier that week and that morning. She took Duane to a doctor, she said, but was told his condition was normal.

She, Walsh and Duane took a nap in their bed sometime after feeding Duane at 8 a.m. They woke up around 1 p.m. and found the baby unresponsive.

As police escorted the couple from the home, Bury was reported as saying “I killed my baby.”

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20151018/article/151019687?p=2&tc=pg

 

[perfectingpink]

My recollection was not entirely accurate. Here's the article I referenced.

According to interviews, police records and investigatory documents:

Early that afternoon, Duane's parents called 911 and reported that he was unresponsive.

A North Port paramedic found Duane in his parents' bedroom, lying face up on the ground between the playpen and the door. His heart was not beating.

Duane was pale with dark colored patches on his skin. Blood was coming from his nostrils.

He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Bury told paramedics that Duane had been vomiting earlier that week and that morning. She took Duane to a doctor, she said, but was told his condition was normal.

She, Walsh and Duane took a nap in their bed sometime after feeding Duane at 8 a.m. They woke up around 1 p.m. and found the baby unresponsive.

As police escorted the couple from the home, Bury was reported as saying “I killed my baby.”

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20151018/article/151019687?p=2&tc=pg

Obviously mine was not, either. This must be the article I read as I have not been able to find another.

I must say I am perplexed by KB's words, "I killed my baby." I know I am sensitive to those words considering what we now know about Chance. I know if my infant died, I would likely blame myself. However, I am not sure this is something I would proclaim, I would think/feel it eventually but the timing is "different" to me. Thoughts?

 

[bessie]

Obviously mine was not, either. This must be the article I read as I have not been able to find another.

I must say I am perplexed by KB's words, "I killed my baby." I know I am sensitive to those words considering what we now know about Chance. I know if my infant died, I would likely blame myself. However, I am not sure this is something I would proclaim, I would think/feel it eventually but the timing is "different" to me. Thoughts?

It's an odd statement, to be sure. I get a sense of someone who wanted to draw attention to herself.

Think about how most of us would react to a mother who just lost a child and made that exclamation. We'd coddle her with reassurance and pity. I think she was hoping for that reaction from those around her.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Obviously mine was not, either. This must be the article I read as I have not been able to find another.

I must say I am perplexed by KB's words, "I killed my baby." I know I am sensitive to those words considering what we now know about Chance. I know if my infant died, I would likely blame myself. However, I am not sure this is something I would proclaim, I would think/feel it eventually but the timing is "different" to me. Thoughts?

It's an odd statement, to be sure. I get a sense of someone who wanted to draw attention to herself.

Think about how most of us would react to a mother who just lost a child and made that exclamation. We'd coddle her with reassurance and pity. I think she was hoping for that reaction from those around her.

I wonder if his death was REALLY investigated. The circumstances of little Duane's death just don't add up. Two weeks old. Kidney infection. Found on the floor. Bleeding from nose. Malformed ribs. Mother says "I killed my baby". IMO

 

[CharlestonGal]

Thank you for this post. In your experience, would an infected circumcision wound cause acute pyelonephritis in a 2 week old baby boy? And if the circumcision site was infected would that not be noted in the autopsy? I would assume it would be inflamed and possibly pus-laden?

ETA more questions
And if KB had really taken Duane to the doc in the days before his death, wouldn't a doc have noticed that Duane's circumcision was not healing well? Would acute pyelonephritis present with a high fever? Would vomiting be a symptom? thanks!

I can't answer these questions with certainty specific to Duane, but in general, yes an acutely infected circumcision site would have been obvious to the pediatrician, and would have been treated. KB did take Duane to the pediatrician and relayed to her/him her concern that Duane was urinating frequently, but voiced no other concerns. Duane's circumcision site should have been healed by about 10 days. The only symptoms KB has mentioned were frequent urination and then vomiting during his last week of life. She stated he had none of the usual symptoms of pyelonephritis such as fever, pain, or painful urination as you would see in an older child or adult. Not that I endorse any information that comes only from KB as the source, but her version of events is entirely possible.

In a case of pyelonephritis being the end result of an infected circumcision site, the autopsy would have noted inflammation/drainage from the circumcision site itself, and acute inflammation in the lower urinary tract extending upward into the kidneys themselves.

Yes, vomiting could certainly have been a symptom, as could high fever. Very high. In my own personal experience with a bout of pyelonephritis that resulted in my hospitalization as an adult, my only symptom was transient fever (about 102) that spiked for an hour or two, then returned to normal until the next spike many hours later. The fever was not constant and I had no other symptoms at all. I went to see my physician after 3 or 4 days of this spiking/remitting fever pattern he ran some blood work and a urine sample. My white count was nearly 40,000 and my urine sample was dirty with e. coli. My temp on admission was 105.6 and was still the only symptom. No vomiting, no flank pain, no abdominal pain, no painful or frequent urination. But I am an adult and my immune system is fully formed and functional. Duane was a premie, had likely been exposed to various drugs ingested by his mother during pregnancy, and his immune system was likely fragile (much more fragile than mine) and he may very well may never had spiked a fever, or it was transient like mine was.

I assume his medical records were examined during the homicide investigation and as part of the autopsy, but I don't have access to those complete records in Duane's specific case.

Sorry I can't be of more definitive help!

 

[EllieBee]

http://www.target.com/gift-registry/giftgiver?registryId=esmISLz4nfqjkR4btzbRLg&registryType=BABY


Chance's baby registry at Target. Not one thing purchased.

I wonder if everyone had already washed their hands of KB and JW and refused to even buy baby gifts for Chance.

Anyway, it made my heart hurt to see that.

 

[Kairi'sMom]

RE: Duane's death. I wonder about it too. I was thinking that when they called 911, the operator probably told them to get the baby on a solid surface and then instructed them in CPR and look out for ambulance/fire/rescue, which would explain his being on the floor when they got there.

I think she didn't clean his umbilical cord or circumcision properly and it led to the infection.

 

[ninij9]

She said the baby was in bed with them at one time.
Why the little one was on the floor puzzles me!

It's standard that when someone stops breathing 911 has you place the person on the floor on his back. Then you begin cpr. I immediately assumed this is why baby was in this position when help arrived.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[CharlestonGal]

Thank you so much for your information. In your opinion, what is the likelihood the DX of rib malformation being a poor DX and abuse was the actual factor in the deformation of his ribs.

Infant autopsies are done with current and/or past abuse as the #1 likely culprit until proven otherwise. We take extensive x-rays which are carefully reviewed by a radiologist specifically looking for current or previous signs of injury, fracture, soft tissue swelling, rupture of internal organs, evidence of bleeding or swelling in the brain without evidence of skull fracture (shaken baby syndrome), etc. Duane's ribs were noted as being "malformed" and the malformation was determined to have NOT been the result of trauma. It was a congenital malformation and likely harmless. I have similar deformity in the bones of my neck that were discovered during routine x-rays for something else. It's not uncommon for humans to have mild congenital malformations that never cause a problem - it's just the way we were made.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I wonder if his death was REALLY investigated. The circumstances of little Duane's death just don't add up. Two weeks old. Kidney infection. Found on the floor. Bleeding from nose. Malformed ribs. Mother says "I killed my baby". IMO

Floor + ribs could equal cpr. But I'm not sure, given what we know now, that either of those two would bother with CPR.

 

[passionflower]

Wonder when she took Duane to the doctor and he was 'completely normal'???
I just cannot believe one word from this woman. Druggie's LIE...............
when your baby takes its last breath and you leave it on the floor is telling to me..............
I have cradled my dogs while dying or dead, crying my eyes out............
I would like to know how dreamboat reacted to his sons death.............funeral, etc
Poor CHANCE never had a chance at life.........
JMOO