GUILTY FL - Charles Kinsey, autistic caregiver, North Miami, July 2016 -guilty of misdemeanor

  • #181
My brainstorming:
If there were protests and arrests and it wasn't Convention week and if Clinton hadn't picked her running mate and if there wasn't a heat wave and a shooting in Munich, etc. etc.,... That's my guess anyway. I don't know if they are completely clueless about what we want to know or if they are pandering to a specific audience who wants action, conflict, terror, and bloodshed.

What are your thoughts?

PS:
Quick check of what's trending: Oliver Stone talks about Pokemon, Chris Stevens doesn't like Trump, Kate Hudson is dating, Hannity doesn't like Jon Stewart, Wonder Woman (okay, I can get behind that one).

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

plus weekend!!!!! now Think also, sadly media and us have been trained to know that when it comes to cops and investigations all communication shuts down for weeks --- so they can wait for the story to cool, or release something signigant on a Friday, or when a huge story is breaking so it gets buried

Look at Pike County- anyone ever see a crime story go so totally away?? Never to be spoken if again?

Massive murder / drugs/ crime etc etc and poof..................................

..the media these days are totally manipulated - and they allow it - if they ask a tough question, that upsets someone on their air, they just wont talk to that outlet again -so no tough questions get asked, much less answered, and then the next mass shooting and poof

Clark Gable and "Gone With The WInd"

PS Heard last night that the search for MAL 370 was just officially closed - what a joke

Anything on Egypt AIr, the CVR has been done??
 
  • #182
he missed 100% of his shots.

unless you want to run with the narrative that he was a bloodthirsty cop just looking to shoot an african american man so there is no way he could be telling the truth about his intended target.

oh my lord you are correct --that just made it 33% worse!
 
  • #183
I think his survival is part of it. Also, while I realize that Mr. Kinsey is AA, as a "Behavioral Therapist" I'm not sure that he fits the demographic of victimhood that the media likes to exploit and inflame. This is just a guess on my part, though. Interested to hear what others think.

ETA: It could be that Mr. Kinsey and his family have not sought media attention as avidly as other victims and prefer to avoid the spotlight. They haven't done an actual press conference as other families have, he and his wife just did the one interview from the hospital (as far as I have seen -- I could be wrong).

Bold by me. I completely agree with this. Mr. Kinsey isn't the "right" kind of victim for the media and many activists. He does not fit the demographic of the "right" kind of black victim. IMO.

He saved that autistic man's life, at least twice over, IMO. He's a hero. Altruistic, generous, dedicated, dependable, responsible, and professional. And very, very brave. His boss sure had wonderful things to say about Mr. Kinsey, and placed him as a 1:1 caregiver with the autistic man because the autistic man has particularly challenging behaviors to manage. His boss saw Mr. Kinsey as a unique kind of person to make a positive connection with the client.

Here's hoping Mr. Kinsey gets an unsolicited $6.5 million from the city, without having to sue anyone. (Yeah, like that will ever happen-- he's not "enough" of a victim.)
 
  • #184
Cops are not particularly accurate when shooting in a real life situation. They average about 30%. Here's one article.

New York City police statistics show that simply hitting a target, let alone hitting it in a specific spot, is a difficult challenge. In 2006, in cases where police officers intentionally fired a gun at a person, they discharged 364 bullets and hit their target 103 times, for a hit rate of 28.3 percent, according to the department’s Firearms Discharge Report. The police shot and killed 13 people last year.

In 2005, officers fired 472 times in the same circumstances, hitting their mark 82 times, for a 17.4 percent hit rate. They shot and killed nine people that year.

In all shootings — including those against people, animals and in suicides and other situations — New York City officers achieved a 34 percent accuracy rate (182 out of 540), and a 43 percent accuracy rate when the target ranged from zero to six feet away. Nearly half the shots they fired last year were within that distance
.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/weekinreview/09baker.html?_r=0
 
  • #185
My brainstorming:
If there were protests and arrests and it wasn't Convention week and if Clinton hadn't picked her running mate and if there wasn't a heat wave and a shooting in Munich, etc. etc.,... That's my guess anyway. I don't know if they are completely clueless about what we want to know or if they are pandering to a specific audience who wants action, conflict, terror, and bloodshed.

What are your thoughts?

PS:
Quick check of what's trending: Oliver Stone talks about Pokemon, Chris Stevens doesn't like Trump, Kate Hudson is dating, Hannity doesn't like Jon Stewart, Wonder Woman (okay, I can get behind that one).

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I think you nailed it. There is too much consensus and not enough divisiveness in this story for the media to be able to sensationalize it.
 
  • #186
Cops are not particularly accurate when shooting in a real life situation. They average about 30%. Here's one article.

.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/weekinreview/09baker.html?_r=0


Hi!

Well isnt that comforting!

But if ya think about it with all the stuff we all have seen lately, we never have really seen LE take out someone like in a movie - one shot, it usually a bunch of cops shooting in the general direction of perp, and accidenlty hitting the perp..................sheer luck .
 
  • #187
Hi!

Well isnt that comforting!

But if ya think about it with all the stuff we all have seen lately, we never have really seen LE take out someone like in a movie - one shot, it usually a bunch of cops shooting in the general direction of perp, and accidenlty hitting the perp..................sheer luck .

Well... in the videos we've seen lately they are much closer to their target than in this case.
 
  • #188
  • #189
In light of the past month we all have shared it is time for a levity break!

I just felt as if none of you would know this. Courtesy of the Baltimore Police dept:

"The department is cautioinng the public not to drive while playing Pokeman Go!"

Just attempting to keep my fellow sleuthers safe and sound . I have to post this on a couple of threads - just too rich!!!!!!
 
  • #190
OMG!!!

Also, watch the last video on the page. The one with the mom. I think North Miami Police have a big problem in the past with Officer Jonathan Alleda which they seemed not to acknowledge and glossed over. And now it is perfectly clear to me why City Manager Spring stepped in, and why Kinsey's attorney has said they instantly wanted to pay Kinsey off.
 
  • #191
OMG!!!

Also, watch the last video on the page. The one with the mom. I think North Miami Police have a big problem in the past with Officer Jonathan Alleda which they seemed not to acknowledge and glossed over. And now it is perfectly clear to me why City Manager Spring stepped in, and why Kinsey's attorney has said they instantly wanted to pay Kinsey off.

And why the other officer was put on unpaid leave. The coverup never helps! They need to learn that.
 
  • #192
I have to say I found the presser very compelling, allowing me to take a step back. The description of what occured seems very credible to me. I also found it compelling that this is the first time I have seen the beginning of the video, wherein the child is extremely agiated, and as I have personally experienced, when agitated can be be quite freightening.



So they drive up, see him yelling at the caretaker, it would fit that they perceived it the way they did. There was , also, true, that you cant really hear what he is yelling to cops, so all they see is two people that appear to be yelling, they think it is a gun, and a guy is laying on the street with his hands up, which could also , from afar be percieved as his hands were up as a result of the child having a gun and told him to lie down and put his hands up.


There is IMO something confusing about the "I dont know" comment by the officer, and the commander being disciplined.

Just mo but it does make sense. It remain sad, casue in reality the victim here is the child. From working with the population , I had fears that the truck being removed from him would was not a good idea.

He was already extemely agititated, and all that activity, yelling, cars speeding up, loud noises of three shots, blood, ambulances, seeing his friend being removed when at the point it was the only familliar thing he had left when extremly agitated.

I am grateful he did not blow out - at the scene- that could have made it more a disaster.

It is somewhat bothersome however, that even after it was over, when the cops came to the location to handcuff that with both the caretakers explaination face to face , in conjunction with the childs behavior, even at the startion, not to have "caught" on to the reality of the entire sitution is IMO not ok.

This child, (he was placed, really hard to find a bed - acuity has to be intense, to get a bed.

I have a friend who has a higly functioning autistic son, the three of us would go to theatre together, and people in restuarants and in the theatre freuquently stared. My point here is Taylor is much higher functioning, and people knew instantly that he was different, so the inability of the cops not be calling he a nut job or whatever horrible word they used in the article is super repullsive to me.

I get cops are not trained in the field - but protocol for cops, I think , when dealing with nut jobs (there words whatever certainly NOT mine) is to transport to psyc unit, not have the poor kid sitting in a room , that he has never been in (totally traumatzing to an individual suffering with autism, with a bunch of strangers, everything is now worse, his truck is gone, and he is alone IMO that part of the story is the real tradegy here.

In addition, in the climate today, down the road this could be dangerous for him. It blood, guns,shooting,hate cops, get stuck in his head, for a peroid of time, making outbursts with that set of words loudly uttered could be more tradegy.

The notion that staff has resigned indicated to me moo, that the facility had been understaffed for some time, staff had been complaining, the acutity of the setting, is really hard stuff.

In psyc hospital as well, a loud take down can excasberate a whole unit. In that setting most of the time, (pure mental illiness) you could tell that someone was going to escalate. Increased pacing, louder voice, more gesturing etc, so you could most of the time, move the other pts to a safer place before a pt would go totally off.

But even in that cirsumstance, taking someone down, is very serious (rights) and the pt had better be extradinaily agitated, loud, threatening, atttmpting to be hurting staff or another pt before a take down could be implemented. And you had better document the heck out of it .

Anyone in seculsion, has to have one staff member within 10 feet from them at all times, and every 15 minutes that had to be documented. But, unless they had a standing order for meds, and had to wait to get the order , in seclusion really really loud, so the unit itself continues to get more agitated. There were some scary times guys!

We had another unit, so back and forth we could call a code, and other staff from the other unit would run over , or vice a versa to supplement staff. It was def worse on weekends, when there were just less people around. Even admit folks, admin, could just be a help in just coming on the unit and being there.

I feel for the child, and possibly the only postive outcome might be he would get a much placement in better group home. But that too, for this population, has a whole host of problems. They do not transiton from one setting or activity to another easily. So all new pts, and all new staff, a new bed and room, different food, can be another whole horror for this poor kid.

But jmo, if he could get into better staffed and secure setting that would , hopefully, in time, be a bright spot in this whole mess. But notice, he got transferred out of inpt quickly, and back to the less secure group home quck. 35 Years ago moo he would have been able to stay in-pt much longer so he could stablize somewhat.

Sadly, I think the child is going to have some more trips back and forth to in-pt in the next several weeks- if they could just folks that need that setting for an approriate peroid of time, it is just so much easier for the pt. Back in my day , hold on, average length of stay (private hospital) was 4 WEEKS - and folks could get thier meds stablized, be given them at the right time and dose etc etc.

Nodays inpt is 23 hours for commerical insurance - if it goes into 24 hours the inusrnace has to pay for another day, so insurance does everything they can to have them thrown out 23 hours after admit - its repulsive, cruel, and flat out dumb. It ends up , in the long run , costing inusrnace more - becasue the poor pt was thrown out in reality, no better shape. So, in three days they were back for another 23 hours, another ambulance ride, more trauma for the pt, hospitals bill for the actual admit, and the actual discharge.

If they would let them stay they would only pay for one admit, one ambulance ride, one discharge, and the lilihood that they would not need to be readmitted so quickly would save them money in the long run. Its a pitiful system - became horrid when HMOs came online.

But then there is always money, and bed availbilty that comes knocking right around the corner.....

moo Sorry for the babble- this stuff obviouly really bugs me

TY for listening!!
 
  • #193
he missed 100% of his shots.

unless you want to run with the narrative that he was a bloodthirsty cop just looking to shoot an african american man so there is no way he could be telling the truth about his intended target.

I actually think it's just as bad that he intended to shoot an unarmed man with autism. I've said it before on this thread, but anyone with a lick of sense should have been able to tell that the young man had a disability. Apparently these guys couldn't figure it out even hours afterwards. That's a special kind of denial and ignorance right there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #194
I actually think it's just as bad that he intended to shoot an unarmed man with autism. I've said it before on this thread, but anyone with a lick of sense should have been able to tell that the young man had a disability. Apparently these guys couldn't figure it out even hours afterwards. That's a special kind of denial and ignorance right there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And the autistic guy was playing with a toy truck, which was white. So it didn't look like a gun in any way, shape or form.
 
  • #195
I actually think it's just as bad that he intended to shoot an unarmed man with autism. I've said it before on this thread, but anyone with a lick of sense should have been able to tell that the young man had a disability. Apparently these guys couldn't figure it out even hours afterwards. That's a special kind of denial and ignorance right there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

what do you mean they couldnt figure it out hours later?
 
  • #196
what do you mean they couldnt figure it out hours later?

After the shooting, the victim said that the cop told him he did not know why he had shot him. Then after the cop shooter had a chance to talk to his union, they came up with the cockamamy story that the cop was trying to protect the therapist, by shooting the autistic man playing with a toy truck.:facepalm: Despite the fact that the therapist can clearly be heard pleading with the shooter cops to put their guns away and not shoot the autistic man who was just playing with a toy truck. If the police union can make that BS stick, the cop will get out of attempted murder charges and the shooting will be declared an accident.

Which is the real problem here. The police chief has now come out in support of this killer cop. The police union has come out in support of the killer cop. Because thats what they do. The Thin Blue Line, the cops all stick together, and come up with lies to support their own. That’s why after police shootings, the cops are placed on paid administrative leave, so they have plenty of time to talk to their union lawyers. The police department meanwhile goes silent for weeks or months, and waits for the police union to tell them what BS story to say. The entire process is a total sham.
 
  • #197
After the shooting, the victim said that the cop told him he did not know why he had shot him. Then after the cop shooter had a chance to talk to his union, they came up with the cockamamy story that the cop was trying to protect the therapist, by shooting the autistic man playing with a toy truck.:facepalm: Despite the fact that the therapist can clearly be heard pleading with the shooter cops to put their guns away and not shoot the autistic man who was just playing with a toy truck. If the police union can make that BS stick, the cop will get out of attempted murder charges and the shooting will be declared an accident.

Which is the real problem here. The police chief has now come out in support of this killer cop. The police union has come out in support of the killer cop. Because thats what they do. The Thin Blue Line, the cops all stick together, and come up with lies to support their own. That’s why after police shootings, the cops are placed on paid administrative leave, so they have plenty of time to talk to their union lawyers. The police department meanwhile goes silent for weeks or months, and waits for the police union to tell them what BS story to say. The entire process is a total sham.

i think you must have missed the context of the statement i was replying to.
 
  • #198
Cops are not particularly accurate when shooting in a real life situation. They average about 30%. Here's one article.

.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/weekinreview/09baker.html?_r=0

I think I read on this thread that the officer involved in the shooting was a SWAT officer.

http://www.innerbody.com/careers-in-criminal-justice/how-to-become-a-swat-officer.html

While all SWAT officers are expert marksmen with in-depth training in close combat, most play a specialized role within the team. Some serve as negotiators or medics while others are experts in handling assault vehicles or weapons. Each team includes several tactical officers who coordinate and carry out assaults on barricaded positions and apprehend armed suspects.

Key words are expert marksmen. IMO
 
  • #199
After the shooting, the victim said that the cop told him he did not know why he had shot him.

Snipped for focus. Mr. Kinsey asked that of the officer who handcuffed him. The officer who handcuffed him is not the one who shot him. I don't condone this shooting, but we have to remember that a number of officers were involved at that point in time. The responding support officers don't always know all of the details of the situation unfolding, and who all the involved parties are, when they arrive. That said, he could have come up with a better response than something to the effect of "I don't know". A better type of answer might have been, "sir, our focus right now is to get you to the hospital and medical care, and to do that as quickly and safely as possible, I need to put these handcuffs on." The handcuffing officer would have known that it wasn't an appropriate time to have a big discussion about what just happened. They had to clear the road and the victims quickly.
 
  • #200
Snipped for focus. Mr. Kinsey asked that of the officer who handcuffed him. The officer who handcuffed him is not the one who shot him. I don't condone this shooting, but we have to remember that a number of officers were involved at that point in time. The responding support officers don't always know all of the details of the situation unfolding, and who all the involved parties are, when they arrive. That said, he could have come up with a better response than something to the effect of "I don't know". A better type of answer might have been, "sir, our focus right now is to get you to the hospital and medical care, and to do that as quickly and safely as possible, I need to put these handcuffs on." The handcuffing officer would have known that it wasn't an appropriate time to have a big discussion about what just happened. They had to clear the road and the victims quickly.

Why would they put handcuffs on him to begin with? Especially considering they claim he was believed to be the victim and the autistic man was the actual target. I have also not seen it reported anywhere that the officer who shot him wasn't the one who handcuffed him.
 

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