GUILTY FL - Dan Markel, 41, FSU Law Professor, Tallahassee, 18 July 2014 - #7 *arrests*

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  • #1,081
IIRC -- Yes, and that SG wasn't present at all at the murder (not driving the car). Claims that LR would have hired a Latin King to help with the murder and SG only thought he was going to Tally for a drug deal. JMO.


Makes one think the attorney didn't even look at the evidence against him to try to develop feasible defense? As I said earlier, really really bad attorney.

Who is paying his bill?
 
  • #1,082
I've seen a lot of optimism on these boards about how the jury will resolve this case. I share the belief that Magbanua and Garcia are guilty and should get the max punishment for what they did. I'd regard that as justice having been done.

That said, while I am not a crim law specialist, I want to encourage people to manage expectations somewhat because the evidence so far has been good, and in some cases very damning for the defendants, my view is it's not overwhelming. This isn't to say that it's not enough for reasonable doubt, but just that I could see a jury going the other way given how high the RD standard is. The phone calls today, for example, seemed pretty inconclusive. Factually, I'm pretty confident they reflect guilty people panicking; but the actual content of the calls does not have a smoking gun that proves beyond any doubt that CA, KM and DA conspired to commit a murder. DA and CA in particular were clearly very careful not to say anything on the phone that could hang them, and to my frustration I think they succeeded.

That said, RD is a holistic standard. The jury will have to consider not the calls in isolation, but in combination with LG's testimony plus all the other evidence. I think there's a good case to be made for guilt on all charges, but I've seen instances where juries acquit in the absence of the classic smoking gun--DNA or video evidence, the former in particular which juries increasingly seem to expect as part of a criminal case.

The other issue is that where, as here, lesser charges are available, juries may return a guilty verdict but on a lesser offense like manslaughter, which means less punishment. Even that though would be a good outcome because it would mean SG and KM would go to jail, hopefully for a long time; and it would mean they were found culpable for the murder by a court, which would mean that the conspiracy theory of the case was validated. If they are acquitted then it would be virtually impossible to go after CA and DA.

I remain hopeful. I think the prosecution has done a good job. These two are pretty clearly factually guilty; as a matter of law, though, things can get sticky with all the safeguards criminal defendants have in our system.

Two words: OJ Simpson

Wonderful insight. Sobering but true.
 
  • #1,083
Makes one think the attorney didn't even look at the evidence against him to try to develop feasible defense? As I said earlier, really really bad attorney.

Who is paying his bill?
With all the videotape of him in the car and the calls, I can't think of a good viable defense. JMO.
 
  • #1,084
Absolutely nowhere!!! I think Cappleman could have objected so many times due to lack of relevance but she's just letting him sink.

As she so strategically did with their cross of Wendi.

Sit on hands while letting the testimony get on record and dig their own grave.


Moo
 
  • #1,085
Right - I mean Garcia's defense is pretty much "complete nothingness" due to Rivera's testimony and the bus videos, as well as Nobles' testimony. Nobles' puts them there together. The bus video shows Garcia in the front passenger seat right after the murder, agitated trying to hide the gun according to Rivera. Rivera's testimony was credible and corroborated. There's no link between Rivera and CA. So that theory is DOA.
 
  • #1,086
IIRC, they're claiming that LR was CA's drug dealer (although I don't recall any evidence in the trial so far to support that) ... and I guess they're also claiming that CA hired LR directly to do the hit. That's my understanding of SG's defense theory. Playing up the Latin King bad guy scenario. JMO.

But they have PROOF! ( If they can show that LR was dealer to CA annnnnd

*drumroll*

his front desk gal on stand? )

:D

J/K!!
 
  • #1,087
  • #1,088
Casey Anthony also! And that trial was in Florida.

Ugh true. With both trials it felt like a punch in the gut when the verdicts game back NG.
 
  • #1,089
i think these defense attorneys were hand-picked by their puppeteer not for their "skill" but because they are "loyal" and willing to play ball.
 
  • #1,090
If Garcia is convicted can he appeal based on poor defense counsel? My attorney was a dope (not to be confused with CA's dope house).
 
  • #1,091
Right - I mean Garcia's defense is pretty much "complete nothingness" due to Rivera's testimony and the bus videos, as well as Nobles' testimony. Nobles' puts them there together. The bus video shows Garcia in the front passenger seat right after the murder, agitated trying to hide the gun according to Rivera. Rivera's testimony was credible and corroborated. There's no link between Rivera and CA. So that theory is DOA.
I don't envy Garcia's attorney. Very difficult. JMO.
 
  • #1,092
If Garcia is convicted can he appeal based on poor defense counsel? My attorney was a dope (not to be confused with CA's dope house).
Yes, he can, but I don't think it's easy to win an appeal based on a claim of ineffective assistance of counsel.
 
  • #1,093
i think these defense attorneys were hand-picked by their puppeteer not for their "skill" but because they are "loyal" and willing to play ball.
Definitely true for KM.
 
  • #1,094
  • #1,095
Yes, he can, but I don't think it's easy to win an appeal based on a claim of ineffective assistance of counsel.

Correct. The standard for succeeding on appeal based on ineffective assistance of counsel is that (1) counsel's performance was objectively deficient, and (2) that there is a reasonable probability that a different result would have been achieved with different, adequate counsel. So not only is it a pretty high standard, but it's a two-part test as well, and both criteria need to be met. Finding that counsel is "objectively deficient" means showing that their performance fell substantially below what a competent and prepared attorney would have done. Nitpicks about style, that they annoyed the jury, etc, are not gonna cut it. Needs to be clear errors like failing to make obvious objections and letting otherwise inadmissible evidence in, failing to adequately prepare for trial (i.e. not interviewing witnesses, not reviewing disclosure with the client, etc). I doubt they would find any of that in this case given what we know about the massive amount of pretrial preparation on both sides.
 
  • #1,096
Two words: OJ Simpson

Wonderful insight. Sobering but true.
He didn't have anybody pointing the finger at him along with all the circumstantial evidence that was involved with that case. A scenario was created by the defense where blood was taken from a syringe and sprinkled about the crime scene(s). One of the jurors of his peers also stated the TNA didn't match instead of DNA. Amazing how big bucks and high profile can get the best defense money can buy.
 
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  • #1,097
I don't envy Garcia's attorney. Very difficult. JMO.
Yeah he doesn't have too much to work with. It's a Hail Mary pass type situation.
 
  • #1,098
deleted.
 
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  • #1,099
I've seen a lot of optimism on these boards about how the jury will resolve this case. I share the belief that Magbanua and Garcia are guilty and should get the max punishment for what they did. I'd regard that as justice having been done.

That said, while I am not a crim law specialist, I want to encourage people to manage expectations somewhat because the evidence so far has been good, and in some cases very damning for the defendants, my view is it's not overwhelming. This isn't to say that it's not enough for reasonable doubt, but just that I could see a jury going the other way given how high the RD standard is. The phone calls today, for example, seemed pretty inconclusive. Factually, I'm pretty confident they reflect guilty people panicking; but the actual content of the calls does not have a smoking gun that proves beyond any doubt that CA, KM and DA conspired to commit a murder. DA and CA in particular were clearly very careful not to say anything on the phone that could hang them, and to my frustration I think they succeeded.

That said, RD is a holistic standard. The jury will have to consider not the calls in isolation, but in combination with LG's testimony plus all the other evidence. I think there's a good case to be made for guilt on all charges, but I've seen instances where juries acquit in the absence of the classic smoking gun--DNA or video evidence, the former in particular which juries increasingly seem to expect as part of a criminal case.

The other issue is that where, as here, lesser charges are available, juries may return a guilty verdict but on a lesser offense like manslaughter, which means less punishment. Even that though would be a good outcome because it would mean SG and KM would go to jail, hopefully for a long time; and it would mean they were found culpable for the murder by a court, which would mean that the conspiracy theory of the case was validated. If they are acquitted then it would be virtually impossible to go after CA and DA.

I remain hopeful. I think the prosecution has done a good job. These two are pretty clearly factually guilty; as a matter of law, though, things can get sticky with all the safeguards criminal defendants have in our system.
I agree especially about the wiretap contents implicating KM.
They are suspicious as hell but yeah they could be reasonable doubt.

Three years ago when KM was charged I don't think the prosecution could predict where we are now. They really thought she would cooperate. But of course she didn't and over the past 3 years no other major new evidence has really been developed.
I am really curious to see how the verdict goes!
 
  • #1,100
I'm sorry if I missed this----but the recorded convo where CA said to KM about the undercover guy, you might have to kill him, was that excluded? Too inaudible?
 
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