FL - Daniel, 32, & Heather Kelsey, 30, found dead, Volusia County, 31 Dec 2016

[cvaldez1975]

weed? that's it? that wouldn't have killed him.

http://www.news-journalonline.com/n...ead-on-i-4-were-watching-movie-in-running-car

"Chitwood said Thursday that it was Daniel Kelsey who tested "presumptive positive" for drugs. The sheriff said there was a "presence of weed" in his urine. However, Chitwood also added that the toxicology tests done on the couple may show other substances."

More at link

 

[Hatfield]

weed? that's it? that wouldn't have killed him.

The prevailing thought if drugs were involved in their deaths is the preliminary test was just a basic test and it did not test for the substance that the blood toxicology test will uncover.

Notice the sheriff is implying he has to wait for the Toxicology test to come back. Implying that the preliminary testing was just for basic substances and probably did not test for some of the newer things that are causing deaths these days. Example Fentanyl. Probably didnt test for that in the initial basic test.

 

[Gardenista]

I was just thinking about the panic eating their drugs scenario.

They've done the autopsy--wouldn't that have been seen in stomach contents? What do eaten drugs look like?

 

[Hatfield]

I was just thinking about the panic eating their drugs scenario.

They've done the autopsy--wouldn't that have been seen in stomach contents? What do eaten drugs look like?

I suppose it depends on what it was and how it was stored.

If just a baggy of powder then it likely would not be detectable by observation of stomach contents. Because it would dissolve quickly.

If a bunch of capsules then probably would be some capsule shells left undisolved.

There are also some drugs in liquid form. Ive seen liquid prescription methodone before that a friend had a prescription for. He always had to be careful with that because it was so powerful.

Same with liquid cough medicines that can have various amounts of hydrcodone.

So i guess it just depends.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Bath salts is another option. The test for that is pretty specific, takes a while, and is very expensive.

 

[Elainera]

Some people are saying slumped on the car? The way I read it was that she was sitting on the ground up against the vehicle but slumped over passed out.

This was how I pictured it too when I read an article about how she was found. I was thinking like sitting on ground with back against a tire and slumped over.

I also pictured it like that.

 

[Bently]

weed? that's it? that wouldn't have killed him.

And that weed could have been smoked some days previously,vs during drive, as it was a urine test. http://www.theweedblog.com/how-long-does-marijuana-stay-in-your-system-infographic/

 

[Rachel1]

I'm eager to find out what toxicology says

 

[PrincessKristi]

If they only really smoked then it is possible they went to a head shop if they were out and purchased something fake like k2. I remember before the whole "bath salts" thing happened my sister who was 15 walked into a head shop in South Carolina and purchased some "weed" on vacation....I thought she was going to die, she was shaking and getting sick but only for about 15 minutes then she was fine just tired. Although I do say prescription pain pills are more likely, some people just ingest them orally or maybe they did since they had their kids. I've been clean for 4 years now but pain killers will take over, and I have seen people resort to some pretty sad things in withdrawal. It's possible they took something like Xanax on top of something like Methadone or even Roxicodone. There are so many possibilities but it's a sad situation either way.

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[keeleydoll]

I don't know if it's been mentioned or what the actual name of the drug is and if it's screened but I have heard many people are overdosing on elephant tranquillizers. I follow a page for moms with addicts and although I'm in Canada and I haven't heard this trend yet here I have read a lot of stories in my group about kids oding on it.


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Ketamine? (Ketaset, ketajet?) is this what you mean? They are veterinary disassociative tranquilizers and work insanely quickly. As a hard partying teen, I did a lot of things I shouldn't have (looking back) and this was the fastest acting substance I ever encountered. If they'd taken too much of this sort of veterinary tranq and od'd there absolutely would have been evidence. It is the same drug produced at different strengths for different classes of animals, but literally a bit more/stronger than you planned for "fun" and you're in a different room or place waking up wondering where you are and what happened. Looking back and now having teenaged children of my own, I'm absolutely horrified that I did things like this and put myself in such bad situations, but I really do think if that was what they'd done there would be evidence left behind.

 

[keeleydoll]

Ketamine? (Ketaset, ketajet?) is this what you mean? They are veterinary disassociative tranquilizers and work insanely quickly. As a hard partying teen, I did a lot of things I shouldn't have (looking back) and this was the fastest acting substance I ever encountered. If they'd taken too much of this sort of veterinary tranq and od'd there absolutely would have been evidence. It is the same drug produced at different strengths for different classes of animals, but literally a bit more/stronger than you planned for "fun" and you're in a different room or place waking up wondering where you are and what happened. Looking back and now having teenaged children of my own, I'm absolutely horrified that I did things like this and put myself in such bad situations, but I really do think if that was what they'd done there would be evidence left behind.

ETA they literally would not have made it out of a place with their kids and car if this was what they'd done.


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[dyannaON]

Thank you for the info Keeleydoll.


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[dyannaON]

It's so scary to know people do these drugs. I'm so glad your in a much better place and can share your knowledge.


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[rsd1200]

Ketamine? (Ketaset, ketajet?) is this what you mean? They are veterinary disassociative tranquilizers and work insanely quickly. As a hard partying teen, I did a lot of things I shouldn't have (looking back) and this was the fastest acting substance I ever encountered. If they'd taken too much of this sort of veterinary tranq and od'd there absolutely would have been evidence. It is the same drug produced at different strengths for different classes of animals, but literally a bit more/stronger than you planned for "fun" and you're in a different room or place waking up wondering where you are and what happened. Looking back and now having teenaged children of my own, I'm absolutely horrified that I did things like this and put myself in such bad situations, but I really do think if that was what they'd done there would be evidence left behind.

They call it carfentanil aka/Elephant Heroin. It started showing up here, cut into Heroin, last fall. What they're getting is lab mfg'd. arriving by way of China possibly sent through South America/Mexico. More deadly than fentanyl.

 

[keeleydoll]

I was fortunate that I realized within a few months, that my friends were not friends and what we were doing was not good. Most of those type of drugs do make you feel good or really, really badly if it's too much, bad or adulterated with something you don't want. I'm looking at 20+ years ago myself, but even things like ecstasy which is a pressed pill, you'd look at for color... like the mdma may he colored but it was either pure or mixed with meth or heroin and most of the people I knew wouldn't take it if it had tan/brown or white spots or flecks because that meant there were other, undisclosed drugs that they didn't want.

That said, I never, ever heard of anyone getting "spiked" weed, what would be the point? It would cost more to the dealer to have another drug on it and risk a customer as well. As was stated earlier, marijuana can stay in a person's system up to 6 weeks depending on usage and body fat.


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[CARIIS]

I also pictured it like that.

Interesting I picture it like facing the door and slip down by the front door

 

[CARIIS]

The prevailing thought if drugs were involved in their deaths is the preliminary test was just a basic test and it did not test for the substance that the blood toxicology test will uncover.

Notice the sheriff is implying he has to wait for the Toxicology test to come back. Implying that the preliminary testing was just for basic substances and probably did not test for some of the newer things that are causing deaths these days. Example Fentanyl. Probably didnt test for that in the initial basic test.

I think a lot of the timeframes are really based on the IMO let media die away.

If
Obama needed to know if his daughter took bath salts the results would be in in 4 days.

 

[MsArk]

Interesting that THC was the only thing he tested positive for (I am aware it was only a preliminary test). There is a whole sub on Reddit dedicated to where to obtain research chemicals - these mimic the effects of many types of drugs (benzos, opiates, etc) one name off the top of my head is etizolam (Russian anxiety med you can order online). There are opiate-esque, ones, as well...I wonder if that could be it? Interesting.

I hope answers are forthcoming for their families.


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Research chemicals aka designer drugs can be found obtained online and from what I've read, very dangerous. A quick google search of "dangers of research chemicals" brought up mostly links to Reddit posts and others in what I assume are drug like forums. I did find a Wikipedia link to a list of research chemicals.

Would the research chemicals show in an initial UDS? Maybe not. I wonder if they were having routine UDS as a condition of custody for their children, drug court etc? Using designer drugs might be a way of showing a clean screen but still using, via these designer drugs, which are totally unregulated and could be cut with anything.

ITA- hoping the families get answers.

Obviously this is all speculation on my part and MOO/JMO etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designer_drugs

 

[Spellbound]

spiked weed/ marijuana:

http://herb.co/2016/05/21/laced-weed/

Most personal users who lace their own weed will add cocaine or LSD. A joint or bowl laced with cocaine is called “primo”, and a joint with LSD-laced paper is often called a “rainbow joint”. It is also not unheard of for users to add heroin, meth, PCP, and MDMA, in order to make those drugs “go down easier”.

There are more nefarious adulterants as well. .....

Dealers have even been known to give nostrils a false kick by spraying weed with diesel fuel, skunk spray, perfume, or putting it in a bag containing fruit peels or moldy cheese to make unremarkable weed resemble the odors of powerful, signature strains. Even spraying or dipping buds in food coloring and powdered sugar is not unheard of. Most often, weed is simply moistened or mixed with oregano or other plant material to add weight.

[see article for possible symptoms ot can cause, how to tell if you bought bad weed, and more]

 

[flourish]

I was fortunate that I realized within a few months, that my friends were not friends and what we were doing was not good. Most of those type of drugs do make you feel good or really, really badly if it's too much, bad or adulterated with something you don't want. I'm looking at 20+ years ago myself, but even things like ecstasy which is a pressed pill, you'd look at for color... like the mdma may he colored but it was either pure or mixed with meth or heroin and most of the people I knew wouldn't take it if it had tan/brown or white spots or flecks because that meant there were other, undisclosed drugs that they didn't want.

That said, I never, ever heard of anyone getting "spiked" weed, what would be the point? It would cost more to the dealer to have another drug on it and risk a customer as well. As was stated earlier, marijuana can stay in a person's system up to 6 weeks depending on usage and body fat.


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This! Why cut more expensive drugs into your weed? Like did your weed not have enough keef crystals? I've been around marijuana for decades. I've never once encountered actual laced marijuana. I've never once mistaken something else for marijuana (I've sometimes laughed at what people try to pass off as good weed but it was still technically marijuana just bad quality).

I don't get it. You don't die like that from chiefing out. Even if it was dab or honey oil or the like. Nope. Not buying that. There's more to this.