FL - Daniel, 32, & Heather Kelsey, 30, found dead, Volusia County, 31 Dec 2016

[creepcrusher]

I guess I really dont have a grasp on the hard core stuff. I was under the assumption that one could not (mentally) drive while under the influence of some of this stuff -- it has not been like

4 injuries when driver on heroin ran a read light

or

Two killed when driver on crack hits telephone pole

Stuff like that ??

Unfortunately there are people that drive high all the time. An old friend of mine became a crack addict years ago. I rarely see her now, but when I do she is high. She once told me she wasn't addicted because she only smoked crack a few times a day. She thought that was a good thing. Even though they shouldn't be driving under the influence many still do.

 

[proctorelites]

Unfortunately there are people that drive high all the time. An old friend of mine became a crack addict years ago. I rarely see her now, but when I do she is high. She once told me she wasn't addicted because she only smoked crack a few times a day. She thought that was a good thing. Even though they shouldn't be driving under the influence many still do.

I know several addicts that have actually injected each other while operating the vehicle driving down a highway. Stupid, stupid idiotic stuff. And for an addict it could just be maintenance, meaning, just enough to keep them from puking, getting "dope sick", from withdrawals. Maybe like drinking 1 beer to them bc their tolerance is so high. But we know they're impaired even if they can't admit that they are. And it's common knowledge in the addiction treatment industry that somebody who leaves treatment early to go use run a very high risk of overdose. This is because while they've been detoxing their tolerance has drastically reduced; and they try using the same amount they used right before they went into treatment and it kills them. I've actually seen nurses break protocol and call parents or significant other, basically brake hippa laws in hopes the patient can be tracked down before they use again, especially long time users or users who were known to use very large quantities of opiates or heroin. Not saying I agree with those nurses just pointing out the reality of addiction.

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[rdixon1120]

I know several addicts that have actually injected each other while operating the vehicle driving down a highway. Stupid, stupid idiotic stuff. And for an addict it could just be maintenance, meaning, just enough to keep them from puking, getting "dope sick", from withdrawals. Maybe like drinking 1 beer to them bc their tolerance is so high. But we know they're impaired even if they can't admit that they are. And it's common knowledge in the addiction treatment industry that somebody who leaves treatment early to go use run a very high risk of overdose. This is because while they've been detoxing their tolerance has drastically reduced; and they try using the same amount they used right before they went into treatment and it kills them. I've actually seen nurses break protocol and call parents or significant other, basically brake hippa laws in hopes the patient can be tracked down before they use again, especially long time users or users who were known to use very large quantities of opiates or heroin. Not saying I agree with those nurses just pointing out the reality of addiction.

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This is a very viable scenario. They would most likely have thrown the needle n spoon out the window and when it hit harder than they expected got out for some fresh air or to vomit or walk it off and expired instead. It's just so sad.

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[Spellbound]

Not very likely they were using anything requiring injecting themselves ---- needle marks would be seen, paraphernalia could be found nearby; the oldest child may have been able to give some indication if he saw anything.....

 

[Openminded]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-children-sat-car-believed-died-overdose.html

Believed to be overdose. They seem fairly sure about him but not yet sure about her.

Article said both were users.

 

[CARIIS]

I know several addicts that have actually injected each other while operating the vehicle driving down a highway. Stupid, stupid idiotic stuff. And for an addict it could just be maintenance, meaning, just enough to keep them from puking, getting "dope sick", from withdrawals. Maybe like drinking 1 beer to them bc their tolerance is so high. But we know they're impaired even if they can't admit that they are. And it's common knowledge in the addiction treatment industry that somebody who leaves treatment early to go use run a very high risk of overdose. This is because while they've been detoxing their tolerance has drastically reduced; and they try using the same amount they used right before they went into treatment and it kills them. I've actually seen nurses break protocol and call parents or significant other, basically brake hippa laws in hopes the patient can be tracked down before they use again, especially long time users or users who were known to use very large quantities of opiates or heroin. Not saying I agree with those nurses just pointing out the reality of addiction.

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There is a rant coming sorry

I accepted a position in a methadone clinic. I lasted 8 work days.

If you all want to make a good amount of cash- go for the license
Here is how it worked. It was awful

Methadone dispensary. Opened at 6 in the morning. Visualize the first weekend of Jawas opening the first week.

Lines.Conditions of there not soing jail time was they would work.

Never knew this. I am not talking about overdose. I am (Learned this) that a person a person going through heroin withdrawal , will (mot of time) will not die.

A person going through alcohol withdrawal could.

Emergency rooms would have to admit, instant a alcohol withdrawal immediately - they could [pass away And will. .

Heroin withdrawal generally speaking will not kill them

It is horrendous yes vomiting, sweating, fever pain gruesome but it does not kill them

You are in alcohol withdrawal in an Er admit. You are in heroin withdrawal, basically go under a tree and suffer for three days. Check it out online .



In my situation (I am visual) it was like a bank with 6 teller lines manned by RN's Cash only $35 a hit of methadone- to keep withdrawal from starting.

My role a therapist, none of them were there for therapy - they were , understandably (took me a couple of days) there to dodge the start of gruesome with drawal.



The place closed at 10 in the morning. Look it up online. It was cash. An armored car came and picked it up like a Walmart.

Place closed till 4 in the afternoon and it started again.

Obisouly there is paperwork. You had to comment you caseload. They were giving out methadone. That require a doctor precriotion

The problem for me was I never saw , or introduced to . or have seen the psychiatrist that I am depositing my paper work (old days) on his desk.

This became problematic for me.! As I realized what was going on I wanted to check it out and for two days, (I had not decided to resign yet) I promise you , I thought about putting a pile of paperwork in his box on his desk with the pt name Barbara Striesand , I have not seen him

Did I do that no.

Did I learn a lot about heroin withdrawal I did, But this is a cash making bunch of crap sorry, and I am not putting my license to practice on the line.

I went to the clinical director and told her I am very uncortable that I had never met , or seen mr psychiatrist. She was anxious.

At that point, in terms of me getting relocated, I knew she sure as heck is not saying anything negative about me- basically I had told her as a professional , no doctor is monitor is monitoring methadone dosing.

I do have to say -- first day, at 10 AM when the Brinks thing came in and hauled away the cash it was a really messed up thing for me.

Look up methadone clinics, cash pay only- it just blew my mind

On tthe other hand _ I learned that heroin withdrawal is grusome BUT Er rooms will not admit you - go puke tremble sweat twitch under the tree- you will basically not die, unlike alcohol withdrawal .

Hard to grasp - it is not about OD is about heroin withdrawal will not kill you generally speaking , alcohol withdrawal will

go online - question my experience fine with it

it was an unreal 8 days

 

[CARIIS]

Moral of the story what I learned and experienced.

Are you looking for a cash only business. ? Do you fantasize about cruising the crusing the caribian. Are you wanting a venture where the IRS cant track you?

Have we got a businness opportunity for you call now

Four steps

Locate a psychiatrist who is fine to write out RX without seeing anyone

Step two find Rn's that is aware of this , but willing to dispense!

Have some upfront capital to find a space.

Have the ability to pay for Brinks ( or if you can get a better rate whom ever) until the cash runs
in !


Great hours - once your up and running you do not have to show up!

It was awful!!!

 

[Elainera]

BBM
This was just on the news tonight, they reported that fentanyl is so dangerous, that LE in our area has been instructed, that if they touch it, or inhale it accidentally, they could possibly die. That is some scary stuff.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-children-sat-car-believed-died-overdose.html

Believed to be overdose. They seem fairly sure about him but not yet sure about her.

Article said both were users.

Still not confirmed by autopsy for both. For some reason they are fairly sure his was an od, maybe he showed the typical signs of an od, but she didn't.

Should be confirmed for both fairly soon. imo

 

[CARIIS]

Still not confirmed by autopsy for both. For some reason they are fairly sure his was an od, maybe he showed the typical signs of an od, but she didn't.

Should be confirmed for both fairly soon. imo

But then the only other option is murder suicide no?

 

[Elainera]

BBM
This was just on the news tonight, they reported that fentanyl is so dangerous, that LE in our area has been instructed, that if they touch it, or inhale it accidentally, they could possibly die. That is some scary stuff.

How do paramedics protect themselves? Are gloves and that mouth-thingy (can't think of the name right now) enough?

 

[LisaWL7TR]

There is a rant coming sorry

I accepted a position in a methadone clinic. I lasted 8 work days.

If you all want to make a good amount of cash- go for the license
Here is how it worked. It was awful

Methadone dispensary. Opened at 6 in the morning. Visualize the first weekend of Jawas opening the first week.

Lines.Conditions of there not soing jail time was they would work.

Never knew this. I am not talking about overdose. I am (Learned this) that a person a person going through heroin withdrawal , will (mot of time) will not die.

A person going through alcohol withdrawal could.

Emergency rooms would have to admit, instant a alcohol withdrawal immediately - they could [pass away And will. .

Heroin withdrawal generally speaking will not kill them

It is horrendous yes vomiting, sweating, fever pain gruesome but it does not kill them

You are in alcohol withdrawal in an Er admit. You are in heroin withdrawal, basically go under a tree and suffer for three days. Check it out online .



In my situation (I am visual) it was like a bank with 6 teller lines manned by RN's Cash only $35 a hit of methadone- to keep withdrawal from starting.

My role a therapist, none of them were there for therapy - they were , understandably (took me a couple of days) there to dodge the start of gruesome with drawal.



The place closed at 10 in the morning. Look it up online. It was cash. An armored car came and picked it up like a Walmart.

Place closed till 4 in the afternoon and it started again.

Obisouly there is paperwork. You had to comment you caseload. They were giving out methadone. That require a doctor precriotion

The problem for me was I never saw , or introduced to . or have seen the psychiatrist that I am depositing my paper work (old days) on his desk.

This became problematic for me.! As I realized what was going on I wanted to check it out and for two days, (I had not decided to resign yet) I promise you , I thought about putting a pile of paperwork in his box on his desk with the pt name Barbara Striesand , I have not seen him

Did I do that no.

Did I learn a lot about heroin withdrawal I did, But this is a cash making bunch of crap sorry, and I am not putting my license to practice on the line.

I went to the clinical director and told her I am very uncortable that I had never met , or seen mr psychiatrist. She was anxious.

At that point, in terms of me getting relocated, I knew she sure as heck is not saying anything negative about me- basically I had told her as a professional , no doctor is monitor is monitoring methadone dosing.

I do have to say -- first day, at 10 AM when the Brinks thing came in and hauled away the cash it was a really messed up thing for me.

Look up methadone clinics, cash pay only- it just blew my mind

On tthe other hand _ I learned that heroin withdrawal is grusome BUT Er rooms will not admit you - go puke tremble sweat twitch under the tree- you will basically not die, unlike alcohol withdrawal .

Hard to grasp - it is not about OD is about heroin withdrawal will not kill you generally speaking , alcohol withdrawal will

go online - question my experience fine with it

it was an unreal 8 days

Damn...it seems my fireball shots are not a good way to live But nope not doing the illegal drugs that are out there! I will scrapbook and if needed color.

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[Elainera]

But then the only other option is murder suicide no?

I don't think it was. I think they both od'd. For some reason hers wasn't so obvious. We'll find out soon.

As for driving high, a recovering heroin addict once explained to me that at first, yes, the drug makes you high, out of this world, flying, happy, etc, but after a while (months or years of regular use) it just makes you feel normal. When you don't take it you feel sick, very sick, and depressed, hopeless, etc, but as soon as you shoot up you feel normal again. He said, in the end he didn't take it because he wanted to feel high, he just wanted to feel normal.

My cousin is a heroin addict. He is on methadone now. Last time I spoke to him I would not have been able to tell, if his mom (my aunt) had not explained it to me. He was just an average guy, like his brother, a normal bloke. Didn't seem high or spaced out or anything. Although, I noticed that psychologically he seemed to be stuck in his teens.

 

[FlossyMay]

Wasn't it stated earlier that some drugs can be inhaled or transferred through touch? If that is true, then perhaps he got sick and left the car. Then she got out to tend to him and came in contact with whatever through his vomit. Is that at all possible? Sorry if that's ridiculous, I have never used hard drugs or allowed them in my household.

ETA: Forgive me if someone else already suggested this. I've tried to keep up, but I may have missed something.

 

[LisaWL7TR]

I don't think it was. I think they both od'd. For some reason hers wasn't so obvious. We'll find out soon.

As for driving high, a recovering heroin addict once explained to me that at first, yes, the drug makes you high, out of this world, flying, happy, etc, but after a while (months or years of regular use) it just makes you feel normal. When you don't take it you feel sick, very sick, and depressed, hopeless, etc, but as soon as you shoot up you feel normal again. He said, in the end he didn't take it because he wanted to feel high, he just wanted to feel normal.

My cousin is a heroin addict. He is on methadone now. Last time I spoke to him I would not have been able to tell, if his mom (my aunt) had not explained it to me. He was just an average guy, like his brother, a normal bloke. Didn't seem high or spaced out or anything. Although, I noticed that psychologically he seemed to be stuck in his teens.

That is good but also sad. Thanks for sharing.

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[LisaWL7TR]

Wasn't it stated earlier that some drugs can be inhaled or transferred through touch? If that is true, then perhaps he got sick and left the car. Then she got out to tend to him and came in contact with whatever through his vomit. Is that at all possible? Sorry if that's ridiculous, I have never used hard drugs or allowed them in my household.

ETA: Forgive me if someone else already suggested this. I've tried to keep up, but I may have missed something.

It was never mentioned if there was sickness via vomiting. I do wonder...


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[cvaldez1975]

i have just been reading this thread and just smh. how incredibly sad for those babies. both their parents gone. the heroin epidemic is so bad. and this fentanyl stuff is so deadly.

 

[Deltucky]

i have just been reading this thread and just smh. how incredibly sad for those babies. both their parents gone. the heroin epidemic is so bad. and this fentanyl stuff is so deadly.

I read somewhere that there is an elephant painkiller starting to hit the US. It is so powerful that one dose the SIZE OF A GRAIN OF SAND will kill a person. I thought I saw that all these potent drugs being combined with heroin are coming from Asia. This stuff is it's own type of terrorism.

 

[Elise]

Still not confirmed by autopsy for both. For some reason they are fairly sure his was an od, maybe he showed the typical signs of an od, but she didn't.

Should be confirmed for both fairly soon. imo

Ugh, it's so sad for those boys. I sometimes waiver on my feelings regarding addicts, but in cases like this, I just feel sad for them. They seemed to be loving parents, with no criminal records and no records of abusing or neglecting their children. Although I think it's ridiculously stupid to be impaired while driving your kids around, thanks to Lisa and CARIIS, I see that they did at least pull pretty far off the road. That says to me that even doing whatever they did, they were still thinking about their boys.

I posted some stupid things I used to do upthread, only to show that even though I think their choice was a bad one, I've made some bad decisions in my life, too. Due to that, I'm not as quick to pass judgment as some might be, but at the same time, I have little tolerance for people putting kids in danger. It's difficult for me to understand, but since they are gone and their boys are safe, I won't sit here and demonize them for their choices.

Im guessing whatever they took hit them both fast, otherwise one of them would've been able to call 911. Maybe the mom was slumped over onto the car because she was trying to get back to her phone, but didn't make it.

 

[LisaWL7TR]

Ugh, it's so sad for those boys. I sometimes waiver on my feelings regarding addicts, but in cases like this, I just feel sad for them. They seemed to be loving parents, with no criminal records and no records of abusing or neglecting their children. Although I think it's ridiculously stupid to be impaired while driving your kids around, thanks to Lisa and CARIIS, I see that they did at least pull pretty far off the road. That says to me that even doing whatever they did, they were still thinking about their boys.

I posted some stupid things I used to do upthread, only to show that even though I think their choice was a bad one, I've made some bad decisions in my life, too. Due to that, I'm not as quick to pass judgment as some might be, but at the same time, I have little tolerance for people putting kids in danger. It's difficult for me to understand, but since they are gone and their boys are safe, I won't sit here and demonize them for their choices.

Im guessing whatever they took hit them both fast, otherwise one of them would've been able to call 911. Maybe the mom was slumped over onto the car because she was trying to get back to her phone, but didn't make it.

I think we all did stupid things/made bad decisions and are still here to warn others. I could rant more on that...maybe later. Lol

The youngest was only 8 months. I don't see the mom using during her pregnancy if she ever used. I don't know.
If there was a concerned the baby would have been tested when born.

Imho...and purely mine only...maybe the mom did occasionally use to help with weight loss from the pregnancies. Just Moo.

I read somewhere that there is an elephant painkiller starting to hit the US. It is so powerful that one dose the SIZE OF A GRAIN OF SAND will kill a person. I thought I saw that all these potent drugs being combined with heroin are coming from Asia. This stuff is it's own type of terrorism.

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[Elainera]

Wasn't it stated earlier that some drugs can be inhaled or transferred through touch? If that is true, then perhaps he got sick and left the car. Then she got out to tend to him and came in contact with whatever through his vomit. Is that at all possible? Sorry if that's ridiculous, I have never used hard drugs or allowed them in my household.

ETA: Forgive me if someone else already suggested this. I've tried to keep up, but I may have missed something.

I think this could well be what happened to the mom. Tried to help him.

rsd1200, and I think others too, posted upthread about fentanyl being so dangerous, even just by skin contact or inhalation.