FL - Five killed, 8 wounded in shooting at Fort Lauderdale Airport, 6 Jan 2017

[NCTeacher]

I'm just thinking there may be some semantics issues happening here? "Urges" connotes something from within us, like our deepest, darkest parts of our actual selves, while "voices in my head" connotes something perceived to be outside our own minds but caused from within. I think some people may be arguing that the voices cause the urges and some saying no and others saying perhaps but let's not all lump this scrap up together just yet?

Clear as mud? Am I cranky and probably need to shut up and go to sleep? Lol.

Sleep, fantastic idea!! I think I'll try that... cure for my head cold perhaps, and opportunity to digest the spirited, philosophical aspects of the conversation.

 

[katydid23]

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If it had played out much the same way, with him trying to seek help, and apparently not receiving it, then yes, I'd feel horrible for the lives lost, and his life ruined, b/c of his mental condition. From what I've understood, he's not under any medical care. He's been winging it alone with his voices, and possibly other diagnosis we're unaware of. The mental health care in this country, for vets, and civilians, is sorely lacking. I may be wrong, he may have been on meds, and been getting great mental health care, but it doesn't seem that way. It seems that ES had, in that moment, completely lost touch w/reality. The voices won.

I thought his brother said he was getting mental health treatment in Alaska since his release from the hospital.

If he had told the FBI that someone was forcing him to kill his wife and baby, he probably would still be in the hospital. jmo

He was competent enough, and rational enough, to book his flight, pack his bags, get to the airport, and speak to TSA about his checked weapon.

I do not believe that he had lost touch with reality.

 

[Gardenista]

In this report they show him ---the uniform stuff was bogus

Good shot of him. It looks like he has a beard, or am I just seeing things?

 

[katydid23]

I get what you're saying! They urge, pester, continuously tell the person to do something and the person is thinking "No, no! I don't want to!" But after a while they get worn down from the constant prodding from the voices, if they don't have proper meds and support, and give into the voices. It becomes something they feel they have to do, they have an urge to do, but it's because they the voices wouldn't stop. However, urging is a different word with a different meaning than "an urge". Urging someone is different than having an urge.

But those 'voices' that they hear in their head----IT IS THEIR OWN THOUGHTS.

It is not someone else urging them. It is their own brain, their own mind, telling them to do something. So it is 'urging them' to do something that they themselves are wanting to do.

 

[CARIIS]

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But it's legal to fly w/a firearm in checked baggage. It wouldn't set off any alarms to anyone. The once or twice I've flown since 9/11, I've packed as light as possible. I used to check baggage, put a bag overhead, one under my seat, etc... No more. I pack as lite as I possibly can. I hate to fly now. I used to love to fly. I'm not really afraid to fly but it's the biggest hassle to have to nearly strip buck naked to get through everything to get to the gate. I had a little lighter on me one time and it got tossed. My friend says, don't worry, I have matches. She turns around and the attended puts his hand out, says I hear you have matches, she hands over her matches. Had I checked that tiny lighter in my bags it would have made it through. If my bag is over a certain size then it costs more. So I take the tiniest bag that I can. I'm sure others do too. My family used to walk me to the gate and the kids would wave at the plane. Not after 9/11. I drive now. I can take the kitchen sink, and my firearm if I want to, and no one considers strip searching me if I forget and leave a lighter in my carry-on. Sorry for the rant but I honestly don't know why anyone flies anymore unless it's just a necessity. It's just turned into a horrible experience, much like a human stockyards.

OH I loved too fly! Surprise! And back then the fares were determined by the CAB so the planes were empty! You could go into cockpit (so excited)

It is totally exhausitng now

 

[CARIIS]

Sleep, fantastic idea!! I think I'll try that... cure for my head cold perhaps, and opportunity to digest the spirited, philosophical aspects of the conversation.

Feel better

 

[RainCheck]

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But it's legal to fly w/a firearm in checked baggage. It wouldn't set off any alarms to anyone. The once or twice I've flown since 9/11, I've packed as light as possible. I used to check baggage, put a bag overhead, one under my seat, etc... No more. I pack as lite as I possibly can. I hate to fly now. I used to love to fly. I'm not really afraid to fly but it's the biggest hassle to have to nearly strip buck naked to get through everything to get to the gate. I had a little lighter on me one time and it got tossed. My friend says, don't worry, I have matches. She turns around and the attended puts his hand out, says I hear you have matches, she hands over her matches. Had I checked that tiny lighter in my bags it would have made it through. If my bag is over a certain size then it costs more. So I take the tiniest bag that I can. I'm sure others do too. My family used to walk me to the gate and the kids would wave at the plane. Not after 9/11. I drive now. I can take the kitchen sink, and my firearm if I want to, and no one considers strip searching me if I forget and leave a lighter in my carry-on. Sorry for the rant but I honestly don't know why anyone flies anymore unless it's just a necessity. It's just turned into a horrible experience, much like a human stockyards.

I hate to admit this, but I made it onto a flight with a 5" assisted blade tactical knife in my purse! It was completely an accident on my part. It was Christmas season three years ago and I was flying coast to coast with a 14 month old. I was tired and stressed. I forgot it was in my purse because I always carry a knife. We were half way through the flight and a went in my purse to retrieve something and felt the knife. I turned white as a ghost, felt faint and my husband asked me if I was okay. I tilted my purse just enough so he could see the knife he muttered, "Oh, my God!". I put my purse under the seat and didn't touch it again. I was horrified I made it on a plane with a knife that big. I still am! It certainly made me lose some faith that TSA really does much of anything to protect us other than hopefully be a little bit of a deterrent by simply standing there looking like they might be doing something.

 

[RainCheck]

But those 'voices' that they hear in their head----IT IS THEIR OWN THOUGHTS.

It is not someone else urging them. It is their own brain, their own mind, telling them to do something. So it is 'urging them' to do something that they themselves are wanting to do.

Does it feel like it's someone else to them though? Whatever the case, it sounds like it would be horrible! I'm glad I don't know what it's like.

 

[CARIIS]

I get what you're saying! They urge, pester, continuously tell the person to do something and the person is thinking "No, no! I don't want to!" But after a while they get worn down from the constant prodding from the voices, if they don't have proper meds and support, and give into the voices. It becomes something they feel they have to do, they have an urge to do, but it's because they the voices wouldn't stop. However, urging is a different word with a different meaning than "an urge". Urging someone is different than having an urge.

Clinically there are types of command hallucinations. Some are "internal" where the voices are in their heads

There are external hallucination which are like what they sound like the voices are outside of the brain and being "heard"

 

[rsd1200]

Exactly. Those voices are actually inner urges that the rational mind is resisting, imo.

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But, to them, those voices are clear, especially w/o meds, and they can lose touch w/reality; that's when the voices win. They have a hard time sometimes even w/the meds, and will even talk back to the voices. He may have lost touch w/reality. We know he asked for help, and it doesn't seem like he rec'd adequate help. IANAD, I'm just basing it off of what I've been told. It's like the paranoids at the facility, they knew they were paranoid, but when one of the schizophrenics would start responding to the voices, a couple of the paranoids would think they were yelling at them, and would attempt to start something w/the schizophrenic fella. Impulsiveness seems to be a problem w/some of these mental health diagnoses too.

 

[rsd1200]

I thought his brother said he was getting mental health treatment in Alaska since his release from the hospital.

If he had told the FBI that someone was forcing him to kill his wife and baby, he probably would still be in the hospital. jmo

He was competent enough, and rational enough, to book his flight, pack his bags, get to the airport, and speak to TSA about his checked weapon.

I do not believe that he had lost touch with reality.

.
Not to be snarky, but, there's a whole lot of carnage that would suggest otherwise. I don't see a mentally competent person doing what he did. Iirc he had a couple of weeks of self-admitted mental health care. Who knows if he was taking meds. If he wasn't taking meds, then today could have been the moment that the voices won, rather than him just deciding he was going to murder random people in an airport for no reason. I don't see someone going to the FBI and making those statements lightheartedly, or for fun and giggles. I think he was seeking help and was trying to hold things together ever since coming home from Iraq. Today it all unraveled. Even if he was on meds, some people do well on meds, some people still struggle with the voices on meds.

 

[rsd1200]

OH I loved too fly! Surprise! And back then the fares were determined by the CAB so the planes were empty! You could go into cockpit (so excited)

It is totally exhausitng now

.
It was a real treat! Sigh... Those days are gone forever.

 

[al66pine]

You can bring a gun in your checked luggage, No problemo. You can walk into any airport with a gun, No problemo. There are people who can have guns in their carryon as well,

re ^ bbm
If there was an earlier link for guns lawfully being in carry-on bags, I missed it. Anyone?

(Yes, I realize it's possible a passenger could place firearm in carry-on bag and could take it onboard, if TSA agents do not detect).

 

[rsd1200]

I hate to admit this, but I made it onto a flight with a 5" assisted blade tactical knife in my purse! It was completely an accident on my part. It was Christmas season three years ago and I was flying coast to coast with a 14 month old. I was tired and stressed. I forgot it was in my purse because I always carry a knife. We were half way through the flight and a went in my purse to retrieve something and felt the knife. I turned white as a ghost, felt faint and my husband asked me if I was okay. I tilted my purse just enough so he could see the knife he muttered, "Oh, my God!". I put my purse under the seat and didn't touch it again. I was horrified I made it on a plane with a knife that big. I still am! It certainly made me lose some faith that TSA really does much of anything to protect us other than hopefully be a little bit of a deterrent by simply standing there looking like they might be doing something.

.
Oh Lord, if they'd seen that after you boarded?! :scared: I was just telling someone the other day about the lapses in TSA across the country. This lady has hopped planes, w/o a ticket, at several airports! If I'd tried that they'd have busted me immediately. I'd have looked so guilty. OT but this too shows the flaws in TSA:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/1...-ticket-accused-again-after-minnesota-to.html

 

[katydid23]

.
Not to be snarky, but, there's a whole lot of carnage that would suggest otherwise. I don't see a mentally competent person doing what he did. Iirc he had a couple of weeks of self-admitted mental health care. Who knows if he was taking meds. If he wasn't taking meds, then today could have been the moment that the voices won, rather than him just deciding he was going to murder random people in an airport for no reason. I don't see someone going to the FBI and making those statements lightheartedly, or for fun and giggles. I think he was seeking help and was trying to hold things together ever since coming home from Iraq. Today it all unraveled. Even if he was on meds, some people do well on meds, some people still struggle with the voices on meds.

As to the bolded part---does that mean that all terrorists that shoot innocents are not mentally competent?

 

[Elley Mae]

Official: FLL shooter told FBI that gov't controlled his mind

http://www.local10.com/news/what-we-know-about-fll-airport-shooter

Esteban Santiago, the accused killer at the crowded baggage claim area of Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport, told the FBI in November that the government controlled his mind and forced him to watch ISIS videos.

..............................

Travelers are allowed to bring firearms with them to flights as long as the guns are unloaded, locked in a hard-sided container and in checked baggage, according to the Transportation Security Administration. Ammunition can be brought onto flights but also must be placed in checked baggage.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...no-name:homepage/story&utm_term=.efc6392e8d82


The firearm was the only bag that Santiago checked when he traveled alone from Anchorage, en route to Minneapolis and then Florida, said Jesse Davis, chief of police at Ted Stevens International Airport in Anchorage, where passengers routinely check their weapons. “We’re a big hunting state, so we get quite a lot of that,” said Davis.

“Everything appeared normal,” said Davis. Santiago checked in for his Delta flight more than four hours early, which was unusual, said Davis, but “didn’t call attention to himself at all.”

....................................

In the photo, the young father wore a T-shirt emblazoned with the logo for the band “Disturbed.” Ruiz said that Santiago, whose mother lives in Puerto Rico, appeared happy after the birth of his son, but that changed a short time later. She said he was hospitalized for two weeks, but she did not have details about his condition.

"I don't know why this happened,'' she said, before FBI agents showed up at her door and local authorities closed off the street near her home.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/01/06/airport-shooter-isil-mind-control/96268492/

.........................................

In November, the suspect appeared unannounced in the FBI offices in Anchorage, complaining that the Islamic State had gained control of his mind and the terror group was urging him to fight on its behalf, the official said.

http://www.13newsnow.com/ext/news/n...-airport/291/nationnow/2gbKg6ZLqYWUKkqgamkU8k

Army records show that Santiago had served in U.S. military service from December 2007 to August 2016. He had been awarded several commendations, including the Army Good Conduct Medal and the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, according to the Army public affairs office in Washington.

...........................

Since returning from Iraq, Santiago served in the Army Reserves and the Alaska National Guard in Anchorage. He was serving as a combat engineer in the Guard before his discharge for "unsatisfactory performance," said Lt. Col. Candis Olmstead, a spokeswoman. His military rank upon discharge was E3, private 1st class, and he worked one weekend a month with an additional 15 days of training yearly, Olmstead said.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-01-07-03-41-25

She would not elaborate on his discharge, but the Pentagon said he'd gone AWOL several times and was demoted and discharged.

...........................................................

Santiago-Ruiz had active-duty military identification on him at the time of the shooting. It was unclear if the identification was the gunman’s, Sen. Bill Nelson said on Friday.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/esteban-santiago-ruiz-fort-lauderdale-airport-shooting-suspect/

He was also investigated as part of a child investigation in either 2011 or 2012, law enforcement sources told CBS News. Three weapons and a computer were seized, but no charges were filed, sources said.


bbm

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The girlfriend said Santiago cursed her, ordered her to leave the place, tried to strangle her and smacked her on the side of her head. But the police officer reported he didn't see any injuries on her.

Red flags don't come much bigger than that.

 

[Elley Mae]

Red flags don't come much bigger than that.

It appears that everything that was brought up through civilian/military authority/LE was dropped, that I have read/seen. With that said there was no reason to not allow him to possess and handgun, unless I missed something. The only thing is the fact that he used military ID to check and transport the gun at check-in.


https://www.alaskaair.com/content/travel-info/baggage/special-baggage/transporting-firearms.aspx

Customers are required to present photo ID or claim checks at the baggage office to retrieve their shotgun or rifle case/box.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/06/us/fort-lauderdale-airport-incident/

Florida law prohibits guns inside terminals unless they are still in their case, but there is a bill before the state legislature to allow guns in public places like airports.

I noticed that the photo cnn has is black and white and cropped out the index finger. although there is a pic of him with a beard, not sure when that was taken.

 

[DatelineFan]

We don't really know much about his motives for going to the FBI. Maybe he had been downloading Jihadist info and was scared the FBI was going to come after him? We don't know what he told them about.

My brother is a schizophrenic. It is very hard for me to imagine him going to the FBI about the voices in his head. It does not ring true to me, that[s all. JMO

Not all schizophrenic people have the same tendencies and behavior. They are still individuals.

 

[Elley Mae]

QUESTION 8: I am a Veteran. How do I get a DoD ID Card?


Answer:
The Department of Defense issues ID cards to those individuals authorized to receive medical care and other benefits provided by the uniformed services in accordance with Federal law. Federal law at section 1074 of title 10 of the United States Code describes the persons entitled to receive medical and dental care, specifically: active duty uniformed service members; certain reserve uniformed service members; and retired military members of the uniformed services or those who are entitled to receive retainer or equivalent pay. Veterans with disability ratings must be rated 100% disabled by the Department of Veterans Affairs from a Uniformed Service-connected injury or disease to receive DoD benefits and the authorizing ID card.


http://www.cac.mil/docs/cacmil_faqs.pdf