FL - Five killed, 8 wounded in shooting at Fort Lauderdale Airport, 6 Jan 2017

[Dogface]

http://people.com/crime/woman-thanks-man-shielding-her-florida-airport-shooting/

Makes me think of Mr. Rogers, in any horrible event, there are always the "helpers", those looking to help. What a kind, selfless man. I wish every news outlet would put his pic up there instead of the killer.

 

[dotr]

Has anyone heard an update on the victims who are still hospitalized?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/airport-shooting-victims-1.3926161

Florida hospital officials say one of the airport shooting victims is expected to be released Saturday, as details emerged about some of those who were killed.

Six gunshot victims were brought to Broward Health Medical Center after Friday's shooting in which five others died. Officials said Saturday at a news conference with Gov. Rick Scott that one is well enough for release.
Scott says three are still in intensive care. No identifying information was released about any of the wounded.

 

[dotr]

Makes me think of Mr. Rogers, in any horrible event, there are always the "helpers", those looking to help. What a kind, selfless man. I wish every news outlet would put his pic up there instead of the killer.

Hero: Tony Bartosiewicz (pictured in the airport with wife Jennifer Cleeton) covered Dean's body with his own as the gunman stood over them, firing into the terrified crowds

[h=1]'I will protect you': Moving words of hero who dived on school teacher and mother of two during Fort Lauderdale shooting to protect her from killer who stood OVER them as he fired[/h]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-protect-killer-s-bullets.html#ixzz4VD4iupRT
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
​

​

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

A few victims are named towards the bottom of this article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...t-lauderdale-airport-shooting-main/index.html

 

[katydid23]

Again, I'll make a request: Show me one actual terrorist who ever went to the FBI before carrying out an attack. Just one.

To dismiss his obvious mental health issues as some elaborate scheme to carry out an attack and be able to plead insanity is completely disingenuous (and frankly, harmful to those who may be suffering, because most feel nobody believes them), IMHO. If he were an actual operative, they give no care as to what their defense will be in court. They often don't even bother to try to survive the incident.

This dude went to the FBI and told them about voices in his head. He was admitted to a psych facility. He had domestic abuse incidents.

Terrorists fly under the radar on purpose. This kid was all over everyone's radar, including family and friends. WHY are we trying so hard to ignore the struggles that led to this?? Is it easier to say it was terrorism than admit it could have been prevented? JMO.

If it turns out to the true that he was posting on Jihadi websites, using an Arabic name, BEFORE he went into the Army, then I will have my doubts that he is truly a schizophrenic. That will change the scenario and make it possible he was feeling internal conflict and stress, not schizophrenia. He may have been suffering from PTSD, not schizophrenia. And it may have been brought on because of his dual allegiances, imo.

I do not see a man that was 'out of touch' with reality. I have seen full blown schizophrenia up close and personal. He does not fit the criteria fully, in my opinion.

He was 2 weeks in a mental institution and no one diagnosed him with schizophrenia, as far as we know.

 

[Inthedetails]

i think you misunderstand my point, im not saying that the scale of an attack determines whether or not something is terror related, im saying that the specific details of this attack may imply that this attack was not primarily terror inspired. (and those details, in this case, are related to the size and manner of the attack)

I actually think I do understand, but disagree that the size and manner in this case rule out terrorism. They MIGHT, but might not.

From what I've read, recent "calls" out to lone wolves ask them to do "whatever" they can. Not that I'm very well versed in this topic....I readily admit I don't keep up with this type of news.

Anyway, we won't solve this tonight. For me, at this point, the choice of weapon or the number killed doesn't rule out (or rule in) terrorism vs. regular ol' rampage.

What will be a bigger factor, imo, is whether or not he was on any Rx drugs - and whether he went off them recently. I'd really like to know.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Makes me think of Mr. Rogers, in any horrible event, there are always the "helpers", those looking to help. What a kind, selfless man. I wish every news outlet would put his pic up there instead of the killer.

I am always moved to tears by heros.

But you know what? I don't need to see his photo...because I want to think that this type of behavior is what we expect from ourselves and each other. I want kindness to be normal, not newsworthy. I don't want to set up being a kind and brave person as out of the ordinary.

What is out of the ordinary is purposely harming others. That is news, and I want it to remain horrifying when we hear about it.

Sniff, sniff....those hero stories do tear me up.

 

[human]

He clearly was not going for suicide by cop. After he was done shooting, he reportedly laid down to show that he isn't a threat anymore. If he wanted to be killed by cop, he would have been pointing his gun at the cops, not making it obvious he was no longer a threat.

He gave away everything. When the prospect of death stared him in the face, he may have changed his mind about dying.

 

[Inthedetails]

He gave away everything. When the prospect of death stared him in the face, he may have changed his mind about dying.

Or, to repeat my theory (which I will stop doing eventually!), I think he planned to end up in prison. I think that is what he wanted.

jmo

 

[katydid23]

He gave away everything. When the prospect of death stared him in the face, he may have changed his mind about dying.

It doesn't mean he planned to die. It just meant he knew he was never coming back to his old life. He'd either be dead , on the run, or in jail.

 

[drjones]

I actually think I do understand, but disagree that the size and manner in this case rule out terrorism. They MIGHT, but might not.

From what I've read, recent "calls" out to lone wolves ask them to do "whatever" they can. Not that I'm very well versed in this topic....I readily admit I don't keep up with this type of news.

Anyway, we won't solve this tonight. For me, at this point, the choice of weapon or the number killed doesn't rule out (or rule in) terrorism vs. regular ol' rampage.

What will be a bigger factor, imo, is whether or not he was on any Rx drugs - and whether he went off them recently. I'd really like to know.

jmo

it isnt a question of "ruling out terrorism", its simply interpreting the evidence we have so far, and what it might suggest. it sounds like no matter what i say you are just going to argue against it so i guess we are done.

 

[jjenny]

He gave away everything. When the prospect of death stared him in the face, he may have changed his mind about dying.

He wasn't going to need it in prison. It's not like they are going to let him to keep his stuff in a cell.

 

[human]

Or, to repeat my theory (which I will stop doing eventually!), I think he planned to end up in prison. I think that is what he wanted.

jmo

I think anyone would know that after an act of multiple murder in a death penalty state that the outlook for life in prison was highly improbable.

The probability of him being killed was great. The Florida choice is ouzzling

 

[HMSHood]

There have been thousands of soldiers and marines who have seen their buddies killed or torn apart yet they are resorting to committing mass murder on totally innocent people. Millions of our vets who were in wars have seen the same horrific things and they are trying to commit mass murder on anyone.

Well said. I suspect Esteban Santiago is an injustice collector like many other rampage killers and terrorists.

 

[katydid23]

The Army veteran's rambling walk-in interview at the Anchorage office was concerning enough for authorities to take away his gun and order a mental health evaluation. But it wasn't enough to get him mentally adjudicated, which would have prohibited Santiago from owning a firearm.
Santiago got the gun back a month later when he retrieved the pistol from police headquarters, and it was that weapon, law enforcement sources told CNN, that he used in the airport attack.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/08/us/fort-lauderdale-airport-shooting-main/


So he was in a mental health facility for 2 weeks. And they knew what he told the FBI. And the knew he left his newborn in a car in freezing temps, along with a gun, which he was waiting to retrieve. Knowing all that, he was still not 'mentally adjudicated.'

See below:
According to federal regulations, a person has been “adjudicated as a mental defective” if a court, board, commission or other lawful authority has determined that he or she, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: 1) is a danger to himself, herself, or others; or 2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs.3 The term “adjudicated as a mental defective” explicitly includes a finding of not guilty by reason of insanity or incompetence to stand trial.4

 

[human]

He wasn't going to need it in prison. It's not like they are going to let him to keep his stuff in a cell.

Giving everything away is a red flag for people who are going to kill themselves

 

[katydid23]

Giving everything away is a red flag for people who are going to kill themselves

Also a red flag for people planning to be on the run, or spending life in prison.

 

[jjenny]

Giving everything away is a red flag for people who are going to kill themselves

And? Clearly he didn't kill himself. Also, he didn't try to get himself killed by cop. After completing his shooting, he is described as going down on the floor to show that he isn't a threat.

 

[human]

The Army veteran's rambling walk-in interview at the Anchorage office was concerning enough for authorities to take away his gun and order a mental health evaluation. But it wasn't enough to get him mentally adjudicated, which would have prohibited Santiago from owning a firearm.
Santiago got the gun back a month later when he retrieved the pistol from police headquarters, and it was that weapon, law enforcement sources told CNN, that he used in the airport attack.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/08/us/fort-lauderdale-airport-shooting-main/


So he was in a mental health facility for 2 weeks. And they knew what he told the FBI. And the knew he left his newborn in a car in freezing temps, along with a gun, which he was waiting to retrieve. Knowing all that, he was still not 'mentally adjudicated.'

See below:
According to federal regulations, a person has been “adjudicated as a mental defective” if a court, board, commission or other lawful authority has determined that he or she, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: 1) is a danger to himself, herself, or others; or 2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs.3 The term “adjudicated as a mental defective” explicitly includes a finding of not guilty by reason of insanity or incompetence to stand trial.4

Obviously, he was a danger. And getting adjudicated as insane does not set you free.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think anyone would know that after an act of multiple murder in a death penalty state that the outlook for life in prison was highly improbable.

The probability of him being killed was great. The Florida choice is ouzzling

Of course. But I think he was using the crime he committed to get into jail. I think his goal was to get to prison.

Well, I think a few different things about the case, and that is just one of them until we receive more info. I can think of a couple of reasons why he would want to go to jail. I don't think that was his SOLE motivation for the crime, but I do think ending up in jail was part of his purposeful plan (more than a mere acceptance that he would be arrested and sent to jail).

jmopinion at the moment.