FL - Five killed, 8 wounded in shooting at Fort Lauderdale Airport, 6 Jan 2017

[human]

AFAIK, combat engineer.

What do they do?

 

[katydid23]

I fully agree.

I think that's the problem. There are a lot of people trying to apply an extreme amount of logic (building a defense literally years in advance by lying about buddies being blown up, lying about voices etc) and mental fortitude to a dude who, by all evidence and accounts by everyone who encountered him, points to a very mentally disturbed individual who tried to get help.

But terrorism!

lol jmo

I don't think he went to the FBI to set up a future defense.

I think he was worried about his online foot print because he had been already investigated and worried his tracks would be uncovered.

When they weren't, it gave him the confidence to continue, imo.

 

[human]

Combat engineer. Sure could have seen buddies being blown up

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineer

 

[human]

I don't think he went to the FBI to set up a future defense.

I think he was worried about his online foot print because he had been already investigated and worried his tracks would be uncovered.

When they weren't, it gave him the confidence to continue, imo.

So he went in the army to Iraq after that because........?

 

[Tawny]

I don't think he went to the FBI to set up a future defense.

I think he was worried about his online foot print because he had been already investigated and worried his tracks would be uncovered.

When they weren't, it gave him the confidence to continue, imo.

This thread is wild.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

FWIW terrorism has not been ruled out in this case.

 

[Inthedetails]

Combat engineer. Sure could have seen buddies being blown up

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineer

Yes, it does seem like it was the truth. So hard to tell when dealing with a mentally ill person. I'm taking everything slowly.

jmo

 

[drjones]

"I believe there is credible evidence that he was posting on middle Eastern pro-Jihadist sites as early as 2007."

are you referring to the articles that also mention this http://heavy.com/news/2017/01/esteb...florida-facebook-new-jersey-victims-military/ ;

[FONT=&amp]"However, Iowa Congressman Steve King raised a story [/FONT]circulating on conservative media sites[FONT=&amp] that alleged Santiago had gone by a Muslim name on MySpace 10 years ago and “and recorded Islamic religious music on the site” with one song’s name meaning “there is no God but Allah.”

is that what you are referring to, and the other claims made by the articles mentioned there?[/FONT]

quoting myself since no reply - it is a typical fake or exaggerated news tactic to take a fact and then embellish it or extrapolate based off of it to paint a much larger and more damning picture. but one that is entirely unproven. the claim that he "recorded islamic music on myspace years ago" is misleading, if it is actually him (it seems like it might be but its not proven) then he took 3 songs and put them on his page, he didnt make the songs or record them, he just put them on his myspace page like people used to put songs by other people on their youtube pages. two of the songs in question seem to be latino or puerto rican, and one of them is islamic. presenting it the way they did leads to people thinking "omg this guy was recording islamic music years ago and putting it online praising allah!!".

the same thing can be said for the other claims which im not sure we can discuss in detail yet, the music thing was mentioned in MSM as linked above, the others have not appeared yet. but it is more of the same imo.

the next step in the fake news game is to get people saying "why arent the mainstream media reporting this, what are they hiding from us?!"

well they arent reporting on it because it is completely unproven right now, do you really think CNN isnt interested in being the first MSM source to break the story that this guy has been a lone wolf sleeper unit that got himself trained by the US Army and then carried out a terror attack ten years in the making?

 

[Elley Mae]

FWIW terrorism has not been ruled out in this case.

No it hasn't.

 

[Elley Mae]

https://www.nationalguard.com/careers/engineer

 

[katydid23]

So he went in the army to Iraq after that because........?

He was deployed to Iraq in 2010 and spent a year there with the 130th Engineer Battalion, the 1013th engineer company out of Aguadilla, according to Puerto Rico National Guard spokesman Maj. Paul Dahlen.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-shooter-esteban-santiago-20170106-story.html



Originally he joined the Puerto Rican National Guard. Then he joined the 130th Engineer Battalion. I looked it up:


Type light infantry
Role combat engineering

Garrison/HQ Vega Baja, Puerto Rico

The 130th Engineer Battalion (130th EN BN) is a combat engineer battalion of the Puerto Rico Army National Guard allocated to the 101st Troop Command. The 130th is one of the most decorated battalions of the Puerto Rico National Guard with two Presidential Unit Citations, one Meritorious Unit Commendation, thirty five Purple Hearts, one Silver Star Medal, twenty six Bronze Star Medals, and four hundred and sixty nine Army Commendation Medals.[1]

from wiki....


So it looks to me like he was in Puerto Rican Natl Guard and wanted to continue be promoted and the 130th Engineer Battalion was the natural extension.

 

[katydid23]

quoting myself since no reply - it is a typical fake or exaggerated news tactic to take a fact and then embellish it or extrapolate based off of it to paint a much larger and more damning picture. but one that is entirely unproven. the claim that he "recorded islamic music on myspace years ago" is misleading, if it is actually him (it seems like it might be but its not proven) then he took 3 songs and put them on his page, he didnt make the songs or record them, he just put them on his myspace page like people used to put songs by other people on their youtube pages. two of the songs in question seem to be latino or puerto rican, and one of them is islamic. presenting it the way they did leads to people thinking "omg this guy was recording islamic music years ago and putting it online praising allah!!".

the same thing can be said for the other claims which im not sure we can discuss in detail yet, the music thing was mentioned in MSM as linked above, the others have not appeared yet. but it is more of the same imo.

the next step in the fake news game is to get people saying "why arent the mainstream media reporting this, what are they hiding from us?!"

well they arent reporting on it because it is completely unproven right now, do you really think CNN isnt interested in being the first MSM source to break the story that this guy has been a lone wolf sleeper unit that got himself trained by the US Army and then carried out a terror attack ten years in the making?

I can also make a case for it going the other way, quite often. Many times the MSM refuses to acknowledge the suspects connections to terrorism, focusing instead on extraneous unrelated circumstances, trying to avoid the inevitable. It happened that way in several recent cases. San Bernadino, Boston, Orlando...

 

[Tawny]

I can also make a case for it going the other way, quite often. Many times the MSM refuses to acknowledge the suspects connections to terrorism, focusing instead on extraneous unrelated circumstances, trying to avoid the inevitable. It happened that way in several recent cases. San Bernadino, Boston, Orlando...

Every single example you gave had headlines screaming about ISIS terrorism from the jump.

 

[drjones]

I can also make a case for it going the other way, quite often. Many times the MSM refuses to acknowledge the suspects connections to terrorism, focusing instead on extraneous unrelated circumstances, trying to avoid the inevitable. It happened that way in several recent cases. San Bernadino, Boston, Orlando...

when things are proven satisfactorily they mention them, what they dont do is then extrapolate from those points and declare things terrorism, or focus on them exclusivley until they feel it is proven. a lot of people think that is political correctness, you can make a good argument for it. but that isnt the same thing as what you are claiming.

this case is an excellent example of this, many people have already DECLARED this a terrorist act. but that is undoubtedly unproven at this point, so anyone saying it absolutely is terrorism is factually wrong right now. that might change. but that doesnt make them "right". im not claiming you or anyone specific is doing this.

i have no problem with people saying this might be terrorism, or presenting their evidence to suggest it is, i have no idea if it is or not, i just havent seen any compelling evidence that proves it yet, there are a bunch of little things that suggest it, and then there are some big claims which are falsehoods or exaggerations right now. i have seen many things that make it seem more like a mentally disturbed individual at this time.

 

[drjones]

Every single example you gave had headlines screaming about ISIS terrorism from the jump.

exactly, and the thing people got mad about was that certain outlets wouldn't come out and declare it absolutely terrorism and affiliate a specific group with it as quickly as they wanted them to. if people want to have a discussion about whether or not political correctness or motivations are involved with those sorts of newsroom decisions that is perfectly valid.

 

[katydid23]

Every single example you gave had headlines screaming about ISIS terrorism from the jump.

Not in the san Berdoo case:


Motive Still a Mystery in San Bernardino Shooting as Police Investigate Shooters

Dec 3, 2015, 10:51 AM ET

The two suspects in the California shooting that left 14 people dead and 17 others wounded Wednesday have been identified by police, but investigators are still grappling to determine a motive.

Officials have not ruled out terrorism, but emphasize that no motive has yet been discovered.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...le-Airport-6-Jan-2017&p=13058197#post13058197

't Dir LA Office FBI, David Bowdich:

- we would rather be slow & correct

- we do not know motive>we're looking at digital media

- re international subjects>we're still looking into that
===========================================================

So at the start of the San Berdoo shootings, they were saying they did not know the motive, even though they already knew some very damning evidence concerning their online connections.

 

[katydid23]

when things are proven satisfactorily they mention them, what they dont do is then extrapolate from those points and declare things terrorism, or focus on them exclusivley until they feel it is proven. a lot of people think that is political correctness, you can make a good argument for it. but that isnt the same thing as what you are claiming.

this case is an excellent example of this, many people have already DECLARED this a terrorist act. but that is undoubtedly unproven at this point, so anyone saying it absolutely is terrorism is factually wrong right now. that might change. but that doesnt make them "right". im not claiming you or anyone specific is doing this.

i have no problem with people saying this might be terrorism, or presenting their evidence to suggest it is, i have no idea if it is or not, i just havent seen any compelling evidence that proves it yet, there are a bunch of little things that suggest it, and then there are some big claims which are falsehoods or exaggerations right now. i have seen many things that make it seem more like a mentally disturbed individual at this time.

I have not personally declared it a terrorist act. I am just reacting to the current response that it is NOT terrorism, he is just mentally ill. I think it is way too soon to make that claim. He was not even diagnosed with anything AFAIK.

 

[Tawny]

Not in the san Berdoo case:


Motive Still a Mystery in San Bernardino Shooting as Police Investigate Shooters

Dec 3, 2015, 10:51 AM ET

The two suspects in the California shooting that left 14 people dead and 17 others wounded Wednesday have been identified by police, but investigators are still grappling to determine a motive.

Officials have not ruled out terrorism, but emphasize that no motive has yet been discovered.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...le-Airport-6-Jan-2017&p=13058197#post13058197

't Dir LA Office FBI, David Bowdich:

- we would rather be slow & correct

- we do not know motive>we're looking at digital media

- re international subjects>we're still looking into that
===========================================================

So at the start of the San Berdoo shootings, they were saying they did not know the motive, even though they already knew some very damning evidence concerning their online connections.

This is the end of this absolutely ridiculous distraction. There WERE news outlets reporting ties to ISIS immediately, regardless of what investigators were saying. Let's move on, shall we?

 

[drjones]

This is the end of this absolutely ridiculous distraction. There WERE news outlets reporting ties to ISIS immediately, regardless of what investigators were saying. Let's move on, shall we?

im done with it, there is no point.

 

[katydid23]

I am sorry that I am upsetting y'all. I am not trying to do so.

Maybe you are all correct and he is a victim of mental illness and has no connection to terrorism. Maybe I am unfairly judging him. I guess time will tell.