FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[SpanishMossAntiques]

I have always thought that whomever abducted Ms. Kesse was a person whom she'd known well and was trusting of and comfortable with, most likely either someone she'd dated before, or a guy who was profoundly interested in her (a close friend). In this regard, I simply do not believe it was mere coincidence that she went missing immediately after she'd gone on an incredibly romantic weekend island getaway with her relatively new boyfriend (and all of us here know exactly how exciting that time is, where you just cannot get enough of one another): I believe the subject was secretly obsessive of Jennifer for a very long time before she went on that trip - though thinking about her being on that vacation (which just had to be wonderful) with another guy just left him burning up with intense jealousy. I have to presume that Jennifer had maintained contact with her brother who was staying at her condo that weekend with some of her friends (one of whom was Jennifer's ex) - and I'm sure some details of her trip (speculation, but maybe things like, "we ordered room service for dinner, and ate outside on our balcony while watching the Sun set") which I think really set him off. I've simply never felt like this case was complicated, despite the lack of evidence and leads - to this effect, I think I can safely say that many of us women here have experienced the wrath of a jealous ex-boyfriend or husband at some point during our lives, and at the very least it's not an easy situation to deal with, and at its worst often ends in physical violence, the police being involved, and a Restraining Order. I believe the police probably have a good idea of whom the suspect is, but without a body, or someone talking, there's nothing they can do.

On the Disappeared episode, at the end the news reporter showed how dark her walk way was. Do you think just a random person would have grabbed her? I think it was someone that knew her, her routine.

 

[htiff]

Your scenario makes the most sense to me. The Mosaic is where everything keeps leading back to. If her car shows no sign of an altercation, then how was she transported? Was she forced to drive at gunpoint? Was she tazed or drugged? And then where is her body placed prior to the noon drop-off of her car?

She had to be somewhere, then. And with the car being parked so close to her home, could she have been far from it?

The only two scenarios that seem to work with the evidence, as we know it, is if she was either, very quickly pulled into another vehicle or dwelling, perhaps close by, or if there was a dwelling or location on site that she was quickly pulled into.

And it doesn't have to be a worker at the Mosaic. This was 2006. Anyone could get a home loan.

There could have been someone shady living at these condos, an owner, who did this. And the condos that were owned, were not searched. It's unclear how many of the vacant condos were searched.

And there is another question I have--why move the car at all?


The only logical reason, I can think of, to move the car (again, if it wasn't used to transport Jennifer somewhere) would be to shift the focus away from Mosaic.

If the scent dogs have it right, the POI returns to Mosaic.


I also agree that trafficking is unlikely. Most victims of trafficking are either very young, or they are youth at risk.

I would bet the crime scene was in a vacant condo, and she is still on the Mosiac property or very close by. I think her leaving the grounds with the excess renovation materials would be too risky. Heartbreaking to think about.

LEO should have looked for workers who were missing, lived onsite or contractors scheduled to have completed their project/jobs leading up to the week of her missing.


Being trafficked is highly unlikely.

 

[htiff]

Have you listened to the Unconcluded Podcast. I think the cell phone info is kind of debunked by that narrator.

http://unconcluded.com/

(Great podcast, by the way.)

I think your theory about the helmet has merit. I can totally see a helmet on the POI's head. Unfortunately, I can also see a pompadour. (The security guard outfit, maybe) But this case is so wide open to interpretation, it's very difficult to feel certain of much.

This is the style of haircut that I also think is possible for the POI

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/61/94/1d/61941d0c0f8458ea8af61c6315682a76.jpg

Often the pompadour style, also has a man-bun as part of it. This hair style was really big in the late '90s. I saw it in Miami, LA and NY, mostly. But the POI's manner of dress seems in keeping with the hair.

I'm going to have to switch my attention to some other things for awhile due to impending deadline. I have gone without posting on Jennifer's case for years at a time and nothing much changes, I hope that's not the case this time.

Ther are a couple of items that make the unlikely construction worker abducts Jennifer and drives off and then returns to work walking down Americana from a mile away where he parked her car even more unlikely.

One is the info that Jennifer's father posted that he was told that both phones were disabled at 10:40 pm. Unless and until we find out that that is bogus information then she wasn't around in the morning, and quite frankly there is no information that she was around that morning other than family's perception of wetness in the shower. And for that matter we don't know that the abductor didn't use the shower.

Second is what I found in the POI images. It doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense, we have to accept what is, not bias our perception to what we expect. Isolate the head and enlarge it (or just use my work) and display on a large screen tv and you won't see a deviation from a perfectly formed bike helmet. There is no hair bun that perfect.

Look at the thigh below the gate keylock and see the perfectly formed thigh and belt straps and holster. This is solid perfection, not something you can wish away. Look at the security guard ad picture, enlarged same as the POI image, and see everything I found in that image, about as close a replica as you can get.

Until the POI is dealt with by identifying the gear found in the picture then this case isn't going to go any further than when I found this stuff in 2007.

rd

 

[mrseeker]

I have not really followed this case, but saw tv broadcasts about it. I think whomever did this, was working or living near her. If he did not, he would have dropped her car many miles away. Instead he returned to the area, and dropped her car off and walked away. My guess is, he walked back to her complex. I am sure it is too late to view video from area businesses that might be filming along the path from where the car was dropped to where she lived. My other guess is, her body is within driving distance based on the likely time of abduction and furthest distance that could be driven given the drop off time of the vehicle.

 

[JnRyan]

I thought of the possibility of the crime scene in the condos in that area. What drives me away from that point is the fact that the POI's trail stops at the stairs (or under the stairs to the back side of her section of condos). That leads me to believe the POI was either picked up there or had transportation like a bicycle or scooter or motorcycle right there. I can't see them having the foresight to think of "What if I do this and park the car at HOTG and they use dogs?" It seems like someone who did this doesn't live there and got out of there as soon as they returned to the condos.

That it was someone Jennifer knew is just not enough by itself to me. There are several people Jennifer knew, but even if she knew them she might wonder what they were doing at the complex before 0730. And then again a stranger would make her cautious. I just can not come to answer as to how someone got close enough to surprise her that she didn't have time to scream. If this was planned, I think back to Ted Bundy - he used a scheme such as crutches or an arm in a sling to give the impression he was injured and harmless. Could this guy have done something similar? Whether or not Jennifer knew the guy or at least recognized him, I do believe he knew her or quietly stalked from a distance.

 

[htiff]

BBM "I do believe he knew her or quietly stalked from a distance."

Quietly stalked from a distance...is such a good way of putting it. Jennifer had only been living in that complex for 2 months. It is interesting to think, why that day? Why was it that day in particular that she was abducted?

It does seem like someone familiar with her habits, and familiar with the condominiums--the coming and goings of others there as well, was waiting for the right moment to pounce. And Jennifer was all alone in that unit of the complex that week. The one other tenant was away....so, maybe the person/s felt this was the right time to do this.

I wonder if when the POI returned to Mosaic he saw that there were people there at Jennifer's apartment already, and he stayed only long enough to observe this. I think management is called to make a welfare check around 1.

Jennifer's absence was discovered more quickly than the abductors may have expected it to be.

 

[Markybug]

BBM "I do believe he knew her or quietly stalked from a distance."

Quietly stalked from a distance...is such a good way of putting it. Jennifer had only been living in that complex for 2 months. It is interesting to think, why that day? Why was it that day in particular that she was abducted?

It does seem like someone familiar with her habits, and familiar with the condominiums--the coming and goings of others there as well, was waiting for the right moment to pounce. And Jennifer was all alone in that unit of the complex that week. The one other tenant was away....so, maybe the person/s felt this was the right time to do this.

I wonder if when the POI returned to Mosaic he saw that there were people there at Jennifer's apartment already, and he stayed only long enough to observe this. I think management is called to make a welfare check around 1.

Jennifer's absence was discovered more quickly than the abductors may have expected it to be.

So Jennifer could have shouted out if she was grabbed in her stairwell or at her car and no neighbours would have been there?

 

[*Verdigris]

rsbm>>>
Second is what I found in the POI images. It doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense, we have to accept what is, not bias our perception to what we expect. Isolate the head and enlarge it (or just use my work) and display on a large screen tv and you won't see a deviation from a perfectly formed bike helmet. There is no hair bun that perfect.

Look at the thigh below the gate keylock and see the perfectly formed thigh and belt straps and holster. This is solid perfection, not something you can wish away. Look at the security guard ad picture, enlarged same as the POI image, and see everything I found in that image, about as close a replica as you can get.

Until the POI is dealt with by identifying the gear found in the picture then this case isn't going to go any further than when I found this stuff in 2007.

rd

Please forgive, but hopefully, without having to read through all the posts -- where are the posted images of your work... thanks!

 

[htiff]

If Jennifer left at her usual time for work, 7:30AM then the thought is that gardeners or workers on site might have been present by then, and would have heard her.

My thought is that she might have left earlier than usual that morning. If she left a half hour earlier it would still have been dark out (sunrise was at 7:14), and it does seem possible that she was abducted quickly enough that no one heard a thing. Especially if she's whisked off into a nearby unit, and then gagged or knocked out.

Or thrown into a waiting vehicle and taken off site.

So Jennifer could have shouted out if she was grabbed in her stairwell or at her car and no neighbours would have been there?

 

[rd_jfc]

Please forgive, but hopefully, without having to read through all the posts -- where are the posted images of your work... thanks!

Blowup of Jennifer Kesse person of interest / suspect
http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3033

there's a lot of info and enlarged portions of the three POI image stills. It's a huge page.

thanks for taking a look if you can.

 

[Markybug]

If Jennifer left at her usual time for work, 7:30AM then the thought is that gardeners or workers on site might have been present by then, and would have heard her.

My thought is that she might have left earlier than usual that morning. If she left a half hour earlier it would still have been dark out (sunrise was at 7:14), and it does seem possible that she was abducted quickly enough that no one heard a thing. Especially if she's whisked off into a nearby unit, and then gagged or knocked out.

Or thrown into a waiting vehicle and taken off site.

Left early to post the mobile?

Although would that rule out someone planning a abduction based on her schedule?

 

[htiff]

Left early to post the mobile?

Although would that rule out someone planning a abduction based on her schedule?

My theory that she may have left for work early to post the mobile of her brother's friend, got knocked down, by a valid point that there was a fedex p/u at her place of work. Which makes sense.

However, she'd just gotten back from vacation. She may not have felt she put in a good day's work, the day before (she did drive straight from her Boyfriends on Monday, and he lives four hours a way, so she might not have been totally on her game on Monday)---and she did have a meeting that Tuesday that possibly she wanted to get an early start preparing for, so maybe she simply left early to get to work early...

What if the person/s responsible were at the Mosaic daily, and had watched her--imagining doing something to her, and then she exits her home in the dark, and the opportunity presents itself?

Or, could it be that they were there early everyday--maybe they got a ride to the job that gets them there a little ahead of schedule--and they have thought about this for some time, and even if it was light out, they had a plan and went with it? And the plan worked.

One of the big curiosities for me in this case, is whether anyone saw Jennifer's car in her designated spot at Mosaic--after 7:30 but before management, at the request of Jennifer's parents, looks to see if it is there at around 1ish.

It seems possible that management missed the sighting of that car by only an hour.

Jennifer texted her boyfriend every morning early, as she went to work. Whatever happened to her happened before she could do this. But was her car moved much later? Was Jennifer's Malibu at the Mosaic until it was moved to Huntington on the Green at noonish?

That's a question I have not seen an answer to.

(If her car isn't moved until around the time the POI is caught on camera, then it seems almost certain that someone connected to the Mosaic did this.)

 

[htiff]

Left early to post the mobile?

Although would that rule out someone planning a abduction based on her schedule?

Markybug,

One theory I have entertained, though no one else has, so take it with a big old grain of salt---is that Mosaic management might either have participated in the crime, or was alerted that morning as to who did commit the crime, and that when called by the parents, saw that Jennifer's car was still there and ordered someone to drive it to another location. As in, there was a conspiracy either after the fact, or full involvement in the crime itself.

This is just a theory, and may not be a very good one.

But there are laws around employer liability (Respondeat Superior) for illegal acts committed while an employee is at work. I don't know the tort laws in Florida, but if someone who worked for the Mosaic was found to have raped and murdered a condo owner, and this employee had a criminal history, that should have been looked into, but wasn't, or that history was ignored--even if management had no direct involvement in the crime, there might be an incentive to point LE in a direction away from the Mosaic, and then quietly get rid of the offending employee/s....so as to avoid a ginormous lawsuit.

Just imagine the civil case the Kesses would have, against all kinds of people involved with the Mosaic project, if it were discovered that an employee did this?

This theory is way out there, but it seems possible it could have gone down like this.

"The basic test for vicarious liability of an employer is whether the employee’s tort was committed within the scope of employment (a “tort” is broadly defined as a civil wrong for which the law provides a remedy). Determining exactly what constitutes conduct “within the scope of employment” is a difficult task and the subject of numerous judicially developed rules and guidelines."

http://www.neildymott.com/maecenas-mi-felis-mollis-vitae-mollis-ut-consectetur-ut-dolor

 

[DD Byrd]

Certainly possible. All kinds of scenarios are possible, and that's the problem.
But there is a reason that statistics are statistics. And as we know, the vast majority of victims know the person who has made them a victim. It's much more likely that this was related to Jennifer herself, and not just a single woman in a condominium complex. Especially based on the timing of her having just returned. At what point is a coincidence more than just that?

 

[htiff]

Certainly possible. All kinds of scenarios are possible, and that's the problem.
But there is a reason that statistics are statistics. And as we know, the vast majority of victims know the person who has made them a victim. It's much more likely that this was related to Jennifer herself, and not just a single woman in a condominium complex. Especially based on the timing of her having just returned. At what point is a coincidence more than just that?

Actually, according to 2011 FBI crime statistics, only 54 percent of murder victims know their killer. The largest number of murder victims, who do know their killer are only acquainted with the person who killed them.

Also, if a Mosaic employee did this, then Jennifer might very well have known her killer--in passing


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....w-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homicide-data

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.....-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-12

 

[Rust Cohle]

and this construction worker drove her car to HOTG just as staff and family were starting to look for her and then walked back down the road over a mile because he's so sophisticated? And disposed of her body in a nearby construction site in broad daylight?

And didn't leave a crime scene anywhere? That's a remarkable construction worker, or anyone for that matter.

Not sophisticated, but lucky. One doesn't need to dispose of her body in broad daylight if she was hidden in a vacant condo until dark, plus a remodel would wipe away any crime scene evidence.

I'm going to have to switch my attention to some other things for awhile due to impending deadline. I have gone without posting on Jennifer's case for years at a time and nothing much changes, I hope that's not the case this time.

Ther are a couple of items that make the unlikely construction worker abducts Jennifer and drives off and then returns to work walking down Americana from a mile away where he parked her car even more unlikely.

One is the info that Jennifer's father posted that he was told that both phones were disabled at 10:40 pm. Unless and until we find out that that is bogus information then she wasn't around in the morning, and quite frankly there is no information that she was around that morning other than family's perception of wetness in the shower. And for that matter we don't know that the abductor didn't use the shower.

Second is what I found in the POI images. It doesn't matter that it doesn't make sense, we have to accept what is, not bias our perception to what we expect. Isolate the head and enlarge it (or just use my work) and display on a large screen tv and you won't see a deviation from a perfectly formed bike helmet. There is no hair bun that perfect.

Look at the thigh below the gate keylock and see the perfectly formed thigh and belt straps and holster. This is solid perfection, not something you can wish away. Look at the security guard ad picture, enlarged same as the POI image, and see everything I found in that image, about as close a replica as you can get.

Until the POI is dealt with by identifying the gear found in the picture then this case isn't going to go any further than when I found this stuff in 2007.

rd

The phones were disabled via powering off, we have to assume Jen powered them off, anything outside of that is just speculation. There is no evidence she left the condo that night, or that there was a struggle that night. There is more information to suggest this was a morning abduction than a previous evening abduction, this is what the family believes as well.

I wish I could believe the blowup pictures, but they are too unreliable with floating images, I literally can see whatever I want to see. I'll give it another look..It's not like there have not been people arrested for impersonating a cop in Orlando, but regardless of who he is, I believe he abducted Jen that morning. No one would wait until high noon to park her car unless there was no choice.

 

[htiff]

Not sophisticated, but lucky. One doesn't need to dispose of her body in broad daylight if she was hidden in a vacant condo until dark, plus a remodel would wipe away any crime scene evidence.



The phones were disabled via powering off, we have to assume Jen powered them off, anything outside of that is just speculation. There is no evidence she left the condo that night, or that there was a struggle that night. There is more information to suggest this was a morning abduction than a previous evening abduction, this is what the family believes as well.

I wish I could believe the blowup pictures, but they are too unreliable with floating images, I literally can see whatever I want to see. I'll give it another look..It's not like there have not been people arrested for impersonating a cop in Orlando, but regardless of who he is, I believe he abducted Jen that morning. No one would wait until high noon to park her car unless there was no choice.

I tend to agree with you on this. The TIMING of when Jennifer's car is parked, seems important. And I don't think anyone would choose mid-day to park that car, if they had a better option.

 

[DD Byrd]

Which...would be the majority.

 

[htiff]

Which...would be the majority.

Right. But any of these tools, statistics, Occam's Razor, these are all just starting places. Evidence is the critical tool in solving crimes.

And again, if Jennifer were killed by someone associated with Mosaic, she may well have "known" the person/s--in passing. And this would fall within the statistical odds of being killed by someone you know.

Even with the odds being that your are 54 times more likely to be killed by someone you "know", there is still a 46 % chance that you will be killed by a stranger.

 

[DD Byrd]

<modsnip>
There are too many outlying issues to tunnel vision and pin this on a Mosaic worker. AND it can't be logically assumed that the POI that parked the car has anything to do with Jennifer's abduction and/ or murder. EVIDENCE simply shows that someone parked her car.