FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #12

[flgrl017]

BBM - Interesting. That would be another peek at the evil within.

I think it was Bo, the law enforcement hound dog. I don't know much about it, but apparently hound dogs don't always track the most recent path. They can smell our skin cells and stuff that we all constantly shed and that stuff can stay around for awhile.

I used Google maps for the screen shot below and added the text boxes to show various points of interest. (I added this to a thread before, so my apologies for the repeat).

To mark the broken fence Bo was said to track to, I used the picture that is around the internet of it and zoomed in on the Google map to locate the spot; so, there is no guarantee it is exact.

But, I can't see the POI taking this route at high noon--evidence of stalking, maybe?

You would think that if the perp was a maintenance or construction worker at the condo he would have hit more places.

Also I wonder if anyone ever commented on seeing people go through the broken fence. Just wondering if this was a common route to cut across to the mall & other businesses across the street.

 

[flgrl017]

Is it because its holding info they want to hold back?

I assume police had checked the boot before Rob was asked to look ( yes , to trst his reactions)

I wonder if the have evidence she was in the trunk. Kind of sounds like it

 

[flgrl017]

BBM There are pictures of the interior of the vehicle and its remaining contents from every angle--pictures released by both the Kesses and law enforcement on different dates.

To the best of my knowledge, not a single picture was ever released of the inside of the trunk of Jennifer's vehicle.

I've seen it stated that the only prints inside the vehicle were Jennifer's. I think that indicates the POI didn't wipe the interior of the vehicle but instead wore gloves.

However, if the above is true, where did they find the partial print and the tiny fiber contain an incomplete DNA profile? Maybe in the trunk? I don't know.

So, maybe "strange" isn't exactly the right word; but, I do believe there is a high probability of information being withheld here.

It tells me that there wasn't a struggle or much of one inside the car since he didn't feel the need to wipe down the vehicle.

 

[Ozoner]

It's not that I disagree, here, because I believe we have to have an open mind and look outside the box a little bit.

But a good theory is a theory based on fact. Most of the little pieces will snap easily into place. Some never will, and those are the things that the prosecutor will turn over to the defense--should we be lucky enough to live long enough to see that happen in this case.

I know it seems so logical to think that here is a 24 year old woman, with a mind of her own, who was no wall-flower, so anything was possible. And it's true in a way.

But if we consider that woman had lived with a fear of being abducted and no-one being able to find her; if we consider that woman was dealing with the stress of cat-calls and wolf-whistles; if we consider that in the last two weeks of her life she had heard someone jiggling her door-knob sometime during the night; if we consider that woman heard a knock on her door sometime between arriving home and retiring for the evening; if we consider that woman had a can of mace sitting on her kitchen counter--is it so logical to consider anything was possible in regards to her going out alone after 10 o'clock at night?

It isn't to me, and I think any theory that overlooks all of the above--theories like she had a man on the side and went to spend the night with him--are simply trash and not worth the time it takes to read them.

The question in my mind is, would she have gone out to her car to retrieve the DVD player or put the phone in the car?

Maybe she had misgivings about going out to the parking lot but convinced herself that she was being paranoid.

I can't imagine her driving anywhere unless it was somewhere ultra safe like a fast-food drive-thru, and there's no evidence for that sort of trip.

By the way, Jennifer's apartment door must have had a peephole, right? I ask because if someone knocked on her door pretending to be LE, a peephole would have given her the chance to verify whether the person was in uniform. I cannot see her opening her door to anyone other than (real or fake) LE or someone she knew.

 

[Markybug]

“But if we consider that woman had lived with a fear of being abducted and no-one being able to find her”

Truth , this part is interesting, and presumably would be known to people close to her ? Seems strange to then happen exactly as she feared?

Re looking at theories of scenarios she “wouldn’t “ do , you are almost certainly correct. Just a worry that we could be missing something, however small.

On a separate note , i came across a mention years back of a torch sitting on a worktop in jens flat. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Could any significance be attached to it?

 

[flgrl017]

I also noticed these vacant lots close by on google earth. When I zoom in to street view the properties change and they are no longer vacant. Anyway to tell what year the google earth photos were taken? I wonder what they looked like in 2006. One has apartments now and the other has a gas station on street view. Just trying to find where that mud came from. It was not rainy the day she went missing or the week before in Orlando.

Another interesting thing I noticed is there are several pedestrians around where the car was parked.

 

[Ozoner]

I also noticed these vacant lots close by on google earth. When I zoom in to street view the properties change and they are no longer vacant. Anyway to tell what year the google earth photos were taken? I wonder what they looked like in 2006. One has apartments now and the other has a gas station on street view. Just trying to find where that mud came from. It was not rainy the day she went missing or the week before in Orlando.

Another interesting thing I noticed is there are several pedestrians around where the car was parked.

Do you think Jennifer's body was placed in an alligator-infested swamp?

Maybe her murderer will give himself away by making an offhand remark about that.

 

[flgrl017]

Do you think Jennifer's body was placed in an alligator-infested swamp?

Maybe her murderer will give himself away by making an offhand remark about that.

I've seen rumors that someone she knew did make a comment about that.

If she was placed in water would the perp need a boat?

 

[Ozoner]

I've seen rumors that someone she knew did make a comment about that.

If she was placed in water would the perp need a boat?

Probably not. Swamps throughout Florida, Louisiana, and Georgia are criss-crossed by mile upon mile of elevated (almost bridge-like) roadways. There are plenty of places where a body could be dumped easily enough from the side of the road.

 

[rd_jfc]

I really did make an effort, but I can't see that he has an undershirt on. No surprise there, right. lol

But, I'm wondering if you mean the undershirt was white and stayed white?

Also, during all your research, did you ever find any indication that law enforcement got anyone dressed in light colored clothing to stand at the gate where the POI walked --just to see what color their clothing showed on the same camera at around 12 o'clock, noon?

I guess what I'm getting at here is can we be certain, in your opinion, that the POI was not dressed in a white shirt of some sort and beige trousers?

In the color picture the perp has a solid black high necked pullover of some sort. In the b/w the area is just slightly darker than his face. On that picture alone wouldn't be able to call it an undershirt, but in the color picture the solid black is a very strong contrast with his lavendar (?) shirt and circles around his neck.

No, the only thing they said, and they probably regret giving any information out, just causes annoyances while they wait for someone to drop a dime, but the only thing said was "we noticed our own uniforms were showing up light, but hey don't worry about the clothes". I'm pretty sure that was the extent of their curiosity.

I've said all along that the clothese could be light, there's no way of knowing without testing which the police would not accommodate by divulging the camera make and settings in place. That would be too much like work to let other people do their work for them.

You would think that if I/R was washing out the clothes that white would be whither than white, but consider the following:
- The 24 hour surveillance cameras were outdoors which would require I/R for night vision
- Lower cost models were known either to not have the light sensitive I/R shutter for daytime or for it to break easily and not be reliable
- The police uniforms showing up light takes all guesswork out of it; the cameras were recording with I/R sensors during the day
- Examples if I/R washed out images I've seen on the web (very few) of greenery has the same look as these POI images. The tops of the hedges and the palm tree fronds have this washed out, lightened look.
- An example of a color camera with I/R during light alongside a normal picture showed that white wasn't white, it was a very light greenish tint to it. Clothes like a sweater that had white patterns were less white patterns with I/R in color. I don't know how a b/w/gray camera would render.
- People are conditioned to see a white t-shirt in the POI images because of the hidden arms, however no arms can be seen and I have said previously that's it's unable to be determined if it's a short sleeved shirt. However after taking a look at the video of the POI getting out of the car, his horizontal arm with white sleeve can clearly be seen. I believe he is putting a backpack on.
- I believe there to be a law enforcement shoulder patchseen as blurry and hovering in image 1 and the shape of a police badge in image 3. We have a sample security shirt (short sleeved) posted here not long ago with that kind of shoulder patch. It's light gray. White shirts with shoulder patches are possible but not a t-shirt.
- People have talked about white uniforms from the beginning but this shirt and pants are different shades of darkness, not both same shade of white. The pants are darker.
- I'm looking at a couple of pictures of Miami bike patrol officers right now. (They're real people, the faces would need to be obscured pretty well to put them on public display.) White short sleeved shirts with prominent shoulder patches (roundish and stripes though, charcoal blue pants, bike helmet like I've pointed out, the neck strap goes riht around the back of the neck just like I've pointed out the ring on the back of the neck but have rarely seen a strap go around like like that.

It could be a white shirt, but it'd be like the Miami bike patrol shirt in my opinion.

 

[scadagirl28]

You would think that if the perp was a maintenance or construction worker at the condo he would have hit more places.

Also I wonder if anyone ever commented on seeing people go through the broken fence. Just wondering if this was a common route to cut across to the mall & other businesses across the street.

I am thinking the dog hitting on more spots would apply to all our theories and men of interest. I just don't think he/they went in the same way they came out. Maybe we could agree that this person had the time and made the effort to familiarize themselves with the back of the complex ?

 

[flgrl017]

Probably not. Swamps throughout Florida, Louisiana, and Georgia are criss-crossed by mile upon mile of elevated (almost bridge-like) roadways. There are plenty of places where a body could be dumped easily enough from the side of the road.

Thanks, I wasn't aware that just dumping a body like that would keep it hidden for this long. I also don't know how much of a body (if any)a gator would leave behind. I remember the gator hiding the little boy at Disney under the water somehow, but to me that would be risky for the perp to rely on what a gator would do.

 

[flgrl017]

I am thinking the dog hitting on more spots would apply to all our theories and men of interest. I just don't think he/they went in the same way they came out. Maybe we could agree that this person had the time and made the effort to familiarize themselves with the back of the complex ?

I agree with you in that they were familiar with the complex. At some point they went in and/or both ways. My gut tells me you're correct in your thinking but I'm keeping an open mind.

 

[flgrl017]

Did Jennifer and Rob take long weekend vacations often or was this their first trip?

 

[Markybug]

Mentioned this before , could the POI , if a unwitting accomplice , was told to return the car to jens parking space , but went to the HOG in error? Therfore ending up on camera (jens did not have cameras at the time).

Thoughts?

 

[Truth Prevails]

What's is the person that dropped the car off height? I've read anywhere from 5'3 to 6 ft.

5'3" to 5'5" comes from an analysis by the FBI. Anything above that comes from mostly speculation, although Mrs. Kesse has stated she believes the person is taller. Also, although I can't remember where I heard this, the OPD apparently concluded from their own investigation that the POI was somewhere between 5'8" to 5'11" tall. However, they decided to go "officially" with the height estimated by the FBI.

Do we know if anything was in the trunk or if any of the missing items could have been in the trunk? Sorry for all the questions. Most of the links I click are no good anymore.

Mrs. Kesse has somewhat recently stated that "items" found in Jennifer's car trunk are with the OPD and there is not an available list of those items. One item that was earlier reported missing was Jennifer's briefcase--Mr. and Mrs. Kesse now consider that it could have been in the trunk at the time of Jennifer's disappearance; and, therefore, not missing but currently in the hands of OPD. The OPD aren't saying.

A few of Jennifer's good friends say Jennifer usually kept her briefcase in the trunk because she rarely worked from home and didn't use the briefcase much. Mr. Kesse remembers cleaning Jennifer's car close to the time she left for her vacation in St. Croix, and he believes he may have seen the briefcase in the trunk at that time. IIRC, I believe he also mentioned seeing some cleaning supplies and other miscellaneous things that a person would keep in their trunk, but not much else. (For me, that just adds to the curiosity of why LE would seize that stuff and treat it as almost top secret).

Thus, no-one seems to be really 100% sure, but Jennifer's briefcase is not listed as missing on Jennifer's FBI missing person's poster.

You would think that if the perp was a maintenance or construction worker at the condo he would have hit more places.

Also I wonder if anyone ever commented on seeing people go through the broken fence. Just wondering if this was a common route to cut across to the mall & other businesses across the street.

BBM - It doesn't seem like that from the picture. I'll post the picture below with apologies to anyone who has seen it countless times--but maybe there are some people who haven't. So, for what it's worth: (Just click to enlarge).

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/popmac/media/bWVkaWFJZDoxMTIwNDk0NQ==/?ref=1

 

[Truth Prevails]

The question in my mind is, would she have gone out to her car to retrieve the DVD player or put the phone in the car?

Maybe she had misgivings about going out to the parking lot but convinced herself that she was being paranoid.

I can't imagine her driving anywhere unless it was somewhere ultra safe like a fast-food drive-thru, and there's no evidence for that sort of trip.

By the way, Jennifer's apartment door must have had a peephole, right? I ask because if someone knocked on her door pretending to be LE, a peephole would have given her the chance to verify whether the person was in uniform. I cannot see her opening her door to anyone other than (real or fake) LE or someone she knew.

BBM - Yep. Both Mr. and Mrs. Kesse have confirmed that Jennifer's condo door had a peephole.

 

[Truth Prevails]

“But if we consider that woman had lived with a fear of being abducted and no-one being able to find her”

Truth , this part is interesting, and presumably would be known to people close to her ? Seems strange to then happen exactly as she feared?

Yes, I would expect that only the people closest to her would know this. And, you know, I never made the connection to the point you are making here. How very, very interesting, indeed.

Re looking at theories of scenarios she “wouldn’t “ do , you are almost certainly correct. Just a worry that we could be missing something, however small.

You are always respectful of Jennifer, Marky. I'd love to hear your theories.

On a separate note , i came across a mention years back of a torch sitting on a worktop in jens flat. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Could any significance be attached to it?

By "torch" do you mean a flashlight with batteries used to light the darkness? Or more like a welding torch with a real flame used for cutting metal or something? (Sorry I'm so dumb sometimes).

If you are meaning a flashlight with batteries--yes, I have heard mention of it. I have a very poor quality picture of it sitting on Jenn's kitchen counter, but I have never heard much discussion on it.

I'm not sure why but I always believed it may have belonged to Jenn's parents--I'm sure when the picture was taken they were staying in her condo at that time. I've never heard it was part of the re-enactment, but I could really be wrong there.

Now that I'm thinking about it and just as a theory that is definitely a little bit odd--but would it be possible that someone cut Jenn's electricity off in her condo somehow and she got her flashlight out to check what the problem was, maybe even going out into the hallway or at least opening her door to see if the hall lights were on?

Not saying I believe that happened or anything--just spinning my theory wheels to see where it might go, I guess.

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/jjkimages/media/bWVkaWFJZDozMjg5MzE3/?ref=1

I've never heard mention of any other kind of torch, though.

 

[flgrl017]

5'3" to 5'5" comes from an analysis by the FBI. Anything above that comes from mostly speculation, although Mrs. Kesse has stated she believes the person is taller. Also, although I can't remember where I heard this, the OPD apparently concluded from their own investigation that the POI was somewhere between 5'8" to 5'11" tall. However, they decided to go "officially" with the height estimated by the FBI.


Mrs. Kesse has somewhat recently stated that "items" found in Jennifer's car trunk are with the OPD and there is not an available list of those items. One item that was earlier reported missing was Jennifer's briefcase--Mr. and Mrs. Kesse now consider that it could have been in the trunk at the time of Jennifer's disappearance; and, therefore, not missing but currently in the hands of OPD. The OPD aren't saying.

A few of Jennifer's good friends say Jennifer usually kept her briefcase in the trunk because she rarely worked from home and didn't use the briefcase much. Mr. Kesse remembers cleaning Jennifer's car close to the time she left for her vacation in St. Croix, and he believes he may have seen the briefcase in the trunk at that time. IIRC, I believe he also mentioned seeing some cleaning supplies and other miscellaneous things that a person would keep in their trunk, but not much else. (For me, that just adds to the curiosity of why LE would seize that stuff and treat it as almost top secret).

Thus, no-one seems to be really 100% sure, but Jennifer's briefcase is not listed as missing on Jennifer's FBI missing person's poster.


BBM - It doesn't seem like that from the picture. I'll post the picture below with apologies to anyone who has seen it countless times--but maybe there are some people who haven't. So, for what it's worth: (Just click to enlarge).

View attachment 133825 http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/popmac/media/bWVkaWFJZDoxMTIwNDk0NQ==/?ref=1

Thank you so much for all your answers. You are so helpful. I watched her case on tv back in the day, but didn't start sleuthing it until recently when I saw this thread pop up on recent posts. There has to be something about that trunk that only the perp would know.
Wow at the fence. That was not what I was expecting. The perp has to be very familiar with the property to even know about that.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I also noticed these vacant lots close by on google earth. When I zoom in to street view the properties change and they are no longer vacant. Anyway to tell what year the google earth photos were taken? I wonder what they looked like in 2006. One has apartments now and the other has a gas station on street view. Just trying to find where that mud came from. It was not rainy the day she went missing or the week before in Orlando.

Another interesting thing I noticed is there are several pedestrians around where the car was parked.

BBM - You reminded me that the whole complex was under construction at the time and there is a picture of one condo building under major construction. It is not Jennifer's--Jennifer's appears in the background, I believe.

But the parking area appears to have been all dug up and it is just generally one big mess.

What I'm getting at, though, is could the area construction be the source of the mud underneath Jenn's vehicle? For example, when they are digging up old pavement and trucking it out or even hauling it elsewhere in the complex for temporary holding until they need to refill--the mud gets all over the truck tires and is tracked everywhere. I've seen it get bad enough that the mud will coat a paved road and be really messy. They usually have to wash the streets after.

Just food for thought, hoping it makes sense. Click on the picture for enlargement, or if you click on the link you will see that it is titled "Feb. 2006 construction behind Mosaic". I think Jennifer's condo is actually the one in the center, background. I'm not positive, but I think it would be her assigned parking space side.

A special thanks to the owner of the account for keeping it open for public viewing:

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/popmac/media/bWVkaWFJZDoxMTIyMjQzOA==/?ref=1