FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #3

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  • #101
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Just checked again Cam 3 isnt in a different place but the times are different.

If you click on the poi photos on the sight the one at the top is the poorer shot with seconds at 28 not 27
 
  • #102
Uk Thanks for answering. Basically, are you saying that the picture of the POI with the time stamp of 1300:28 is what the pictures look like without enhancement (except for the enhanced POI). If so, why are the pictures so dark. I would sure like to see other pictures from that camera, say one at 9am, noon, 6pm, midnight, etc, just to compare with the picture of the POI. I sure hope LE did this during their investigation.

Also, since you are from the UK, you may not know this. Orlando, Florida had over 49 murders in 2006, up from 22 in the prior year. Remember, thankfully, JK is not among these stats. Given this, I sure hope there are adequate resources to solve this case and approximately 10-15 unsolved homicides in Orlando from 2006.

thanks for looking into the question about the camera

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  • #103
Yes thats what I meant and I agree it is weird that the pictures are so dark, maybe there is something to the theory that they are at night then, either that or the camera is ridiculously old and past it or had really low light settings.

You know what these things are like they get set up and then nobody touches them for years until you need them!!!

I would imagine it is quite bright in Orlando at lunchtime(unlike here!!!)

That is quite a large increase in murders isnt it?

Is there any known reason for this?
Are a lot of them drug/gang related?

Personally i think if they are people like JK cases should take priority but thats just my controversial opinion.

Hard to comprehend it over here although obviously murders occur being a much smaller country the numbers are a lot less.

It would be interesing to know the ratio of population vs Murders US/UK.

I suspect the US has a higher ratio, not sure why but perhaps the gun culture is different in that they are not readily available here but gun crime is certiainly on the increase in South London at the moment.
 
  • #104
I remember reading that one of Jennifer's parents said there was no sign of trauma in her car. This makes me think she was taken in the abductors car. I also believe she was most likely taken at gun point but I hasten to add these are just my hunches.
I must admit I do have trouble in seeing why her car was driven to Huntingdon On The Green apartments unless it was simply to cause confusion.

In 2004 there were just over 16,100 murders in the USA with slightly more than 6,000 being unsolved.
This means over six thousand people 'got away with murder' as the saying goes.
 
  • #105
I feel that she was taken at gun point in her own car, if someone got in the car and held her at gunpoint then ordered to drive somewhere then I dont see why there would be any sign of a trauma.

At gun point you would just do what you were told you wouldnt be likely to fight back.

It doesnt make sense for the perp to go anywhere near her car if she was abducted in his car and LE have stated that her car is a crime scene(although we know not why!)

If you are correct and it was the perps car she was abducted in then that would point more to an accomplice as you would need two drivers.

You would be more than bonkers to go back to the apartment to get her car after driving off in yours as you would risk running into people looking for her.

If your theory is right then maybe the poi is the accomplice, again its all ifs, buts and maybes in a case with such little evidence.

All people can do is keep testing theories and hopefully somebody will have a Eureka moment.

My theory is she was abducted getting into her car in the morning at her apartment, was made to drive to a house, dont want to think what happened after that but I dont believe she is still alive, and if she isnt may god give her family some closure on this awful experience.

UK Stats: 765 Homicides in 2005/6(so about 380 a year although that figure in cludes the 52 deaths in 7/7 Tube and bus bombings)
 
  • #106
The timing of Jennifer’s abduction.

Are there any clues to be found in the timing of Jennifer’s abduction?

As most of us are aware Jennifer had just arrived back from a short vacation at St. Croix. I understand she was there for three days with her boyfriend who lives in Fort Lauderdale. She drove straight to her work place on the Monday morning.

On that same weekend her brother and some of his friends stayed at her condo. There may have been a party there on the Saturday night.

Who might have visited the condo over that weekend?

Who checked out what at her condo?

Who had access to any keys?

We know that one of the group left a cell phone there and it Jennifer was going to send it back to the owner.

Do young people leave their cell phone behind? Some people say ‘young people don’t leave cell phones anyplace,’ they are too important to them.



So, Jennifer has a short vacation; a group stays at her condo and the first morning she is back there she’s abducted.

Is her abduction some how linked to the events of the weekend?
 
  • #107
You both bring up good points. I think either one is logical.

However, I offer a possible scenario. I still think there is a chance that the abduction occured at night, although, early morning is the most obvious.

I still think the POI acted alone, and wanted to take the focus of the investigation away from the complex.

LE must have some type of evidence implicating the POI, otherwise, he would be called a potential witness.

I agree the most likely is that the POI pulled a pistol on Jenn, either at her apartment, or at her car.

I think the POI has a record, or a law enforcement wannabe, as this crime is much too clean for an amatuer.

Why didn't the POI dump the car at the mall across the street? Does the POI work at the mall? This, in my mind, shows a great amount of planning and knowledge of the neighborhood.

Given that Jenn's cellphone, her friends cellphone, and I believe her briefcase are missing, one does have to think she was on her way to work when this happened.

I still find it impossible to believe that a family member, friend, co-worker, etc, does not recognize that POI. However, I am still not satisfied with the height estimate.

I still believe the answer to this riddle has been called in to LE. Either they passed in error investigating him, or LE can't prove their case.

I am still upset that LE did not process JEnn's condo for evidence. I think a lot of answers were lost. Such as estimates of when the shower was used, examination of her sheets, searching her suitcase, looking at her alarm clock, etc.

One other thing: We keep on hearing that JK laid her MOnday work clothes neatly on a chair, yet, she left three sets of work clothes on her bed, as if she couldn't decide which set to wear. Was this her habit? or was she unpacking and was disrupted, or was this staged? I guess I have never known anyone who would lay clean suits on a bed and risk causing wrinkles.

I;m sorry, but, if anything like this ever happens in my family (god forbid), I can guarantee you that my family will run a parellel investigation, just as a precautionary measure. I would spend every penny I didn't have to find a loved one (I'm not implying the Kesse's wouldn't). I would also open an email account and allow people to send in tips anonymously. I just have some experience with cold cases, and I know first hand that LE does make mistakes from time to time. And let's face it, sometimes, Le just doesn't have the resources to check out every lead.

Sorry to ramble. I just want this case solved, just like everyone else here. I keep remembering her poor dad, saying he would give his life to find his daughter. It is hard to forget such a statement

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  • #108
Lets test the ‘camera time is wrong’ theory.



For arguments sake we will say that the pictures of the poi were actually taken at 1am, which is why they are of such poor quality and have been brightened up.



Apart from why would LE do this unless it’s an error my next question would be…?



Is it 1am on 24th January or the 25th January?
(Is the camera 12 hours slow or fast?)




As I understand it JK’s car wasn’t found until the Thursday I think so if that CCTV of the poi is all we have and the time is wrong then it is conceivable that it is 1am on the 25th?



Okay starting with the theory that the time when the poi was snapped is actually 1am on the 24th this leaves a 3 hour window from when JK was last heard from by anyone else to the poi dumping the car.



This means in this three hours the abductor had to grab her, take her somewhere and either tie her up or dispose of her and then return the car to the complex.



JK was in her apartment, tired and ready for bed as we understand it so the chances of her going out are very slim, the apartment wasn’t broken into and there were no signs of a struggle therefore I cannot see how it could be 1am on the 24th unless she did voluntarily leave her building at that time of night.( I would discount this theory witht the additional info about the shower and the fact it looked like she was going to work.)


So in my opinion its not a 1am on the 24th shot.

If it is 1am on the 25th then this would make a bit more sense that the poi did not want to be seen driving JK car so thought it shrewder to dump it during the night.



I understand the theory behind this ‘Could the time be wrong’ but basically I think we are all clutching at straws due to the fact we have little else to go on.



The official site run by JKs family says 1pm, I don’t think they would be particularly pleased with LE if it turned out they had missed a detail so trivial as the camera time being wrong and as stated above it appears they acknowledged that it was 1 hour out due to daylight saving



My belief is quite simply that the camera picture quality is simply crap, its not even colour for a start but the time is correct.

I have to agree about the timing of the abduction this bothers me immensely my hunch is somehow this is linked to her being away/the party, with regard to the cellphone I lost mine last sunday so I wouldnt read too much into that it does happen particularly if your drunk at a party!

I do hope that LE have scoured footage of all CCTV over a large area in order for another shot of the car and poi, maybe there isnt that much of it in Orlando???

We have loads of it here, Big Brother is watching us all the time.

If they have done and found nothing it suggests the abductor took JK very local from her home.









 
  • #109
I still think there is one reason the car was left where it was (and supposedly a scent trail could be followed to her condo). I think someone tried to take the car back to her place (you've got to get rid of it somewhere) and the security gate at the Mosaic prevented the car from being dumped there. It probably just happened someone entered the Huntington and they were followed in. The perp then strolls over to try to find a way to dump the car where he wants, but can't and leaves it at the Huntington.

The Mosaic supposedly has a security gate (without cameras) and a security system in each unit.

This all assumes the car early, long before everyone was looking for Jeniffer.
 
  • #110
Uk I agree the most likely scenario is that LE has the time correct. This would be very easy to verify, and even Barney Fife would check the time and date on the camera. As a matter of fact, LE must have verified the time, otherwise, how would they have known that the clock is one hour off?

As for the friend leaving the cellphone. I think that is just a coincidence. If it was him, he would have been nailed the first day. He was a family friend, and he would have been recognized as the POI. IMO

If that dog scent is correct, whoever pulled this off, is extremely familiar with that property and neighborhood. They took the backroad, jumped a fence, etc. This is somebody who lives, or works at the complex. IMO.

How many men who are only 5"3-5"5 could live and work at that complex. Why not just run a DMV check by address.

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  • #111
UK Sleuth said:
I feel that she was taken at gun point in her own car, if someone got in the car and held her at gunpoint then ordered to drive somewhere then I dont see why there would be any sign of a trauma.

At gun point you would just do what you were told you wouldnt be likely to fight back.

It doesnt make sense for the perp to go anywhere near her car if she was abducted in his car and LE have stated that her car is a crime scene(although we know not why!)

If you are correct and it was the perps car she was abducted in then that would point more to an accomplice as you would need two drivers.

You would be more than bonkers to go back to the apartment to get her car after driving off in yours as you would risk running into people looking for her.

If your theory is right then maybe the poi is the accomplice, again its all ifs, buts and maybes in a case with such little evidence.

All people can do is keep testing theories and hopefully somebody will have a Eureka moment.

My theory is she was abducted getting into her car in the morning at her apartment, was made to drive to a house, dont want to think what happened after that but I dont believe she is still alive, and if she isnt may god give her family some closure on this awful experience.

UK Stats: 765 Homicides in 2005/6(so about 380 a year although that figure in cludes the 52 deaths in 7/7 Tube and bus bombings)
But weren't there some people around since other people must have been getting ready to go to work?

So, if Jennifer resisted is the attacker really going to try and shoot her in broad daylight with other people around? He would KILL someone just because she refused to drive with him?

I think Jennifer may have stood a fairly good chance if she resisted or at least better than the odds are now because ther rule is NEVER LET THEM TAKE YOU TO A 2ND LOCATION. Because once you get there you are dead almost for sure.

So, if Jenn was abducted in her car then where is ANY evidence like fingerprints, shoeprints, hairs, foreign fibers, etc. etc.???
 
  • #112
I wonder if Jennifer was about to put something in the trunk of her own car that morning.
If this was the case she may have been bundled into the trunk of her own car and the car keys whipped off her.
If this was the case there must have been finger prints on the inside of the trunk lid.
Perhaps she was overpowered and knocked unconscious and then put in the trunk.

Try as I might I cannot imagine her riding quietly in her own car even if it was at gunpoint. Jennifer was an intelligent young lady and would have surely known she was going to be in real trouble when she got to wherever her destination was.
The roads would have been busy at that time of the morning and I think she would have made a desperate bid for freedom under any circumstances and perhaps at a red traffic light.

Finally, I guarantee all of us would love 20 minutes with the police file on this case. I know I would!
 
  • #113
UM & Myst. I agree. Everyone seems to conclude that Jenn was attacked at her car. There are other scenarios.

How do we know it wasn't a neighbor, security, etc. he knocks on her condo door and overpowers her. Then, moves the car to throw police off, and walks back to the complex. This scenario could explain everything.

It seems to me that LE has hinted it has video of Jenn in her car with another person after 10pm on the 23rd. Anybody else remember this? If so, are they bluffing? If not, why not release this video and hope for more tips. why not release the video from the second camera at HOTG? At this point, what is the downside to releasing more clues?

I don't understand why LE won't release more clues. UNless they have the perp. under surveillance, there is a safety risk to the community until this case is solved. People who commit crimes like this are not one time offenders.

Let's face it, this case is cold.

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  • #114
This case is just one big puzzle. If there was any evidence on or in the car it must not have matched anyone in the data base or someone would have been arrested by now. How could a stranger get into someone's car and not even leave a fingerprint or hair unless he wore gloves or wiped the car down before he left it in that parking lot.

That was no evidence of a struggle in Jennifer's condo. You would think if something happened there there would be something left for LE to find.

I think it is easy to visualize fighting a person who has a knife or gun pointed at you or at least doing something to get away from the person but I just wonder if when a person is taken by surprise by a gun or knife if you don't just freeze unable to do anything. I know we are told not to get in the car if at all possible because you will likely end up dead but.....I don't honestly know how I would react if it actually happened to me. Hopfully I would fight like mad.
 
  • #115
There must have been human hair retrieved from the car; after all we are shedding hair all the time. I don't know about finger prints but there was word of a partial print at least. I remember reading that the car was a bit 'untidy' inside as it were. I'm sure most of our cars get like this; I know mine does and then I give it a spring clean!:)
At least it seems the POI ,who dropped the car, didn't go to the trouble of cleaning it out.

Yes, this case is a complete mystery. How can someone just vanish off the face of the earth?

On Jennifer's condo: I think most of the condos near to hers were unoccupied. I wonder if they were all locked up?
I recall Greta van Susteren, when visiting Mosaic, observed 'that it would be quite easy for someone to nab her going to her car.'

I have followed this case for over a year and it is so sad that Jennifer's case seems to be completely stalled.
 
  • #116
Bobbi: You bring up a good point. Most of us have never been the victim of a serious crime, and we have no idea how we would react if somebody pulled a gun or knife on us. Our initial instinct would be to try and talk our way out of the situation. Especially, if we knew the person and thought he or she was just having a bad day or acting irrational.

As for hair or prints in that car. My opinion is that the POI is wearing something on his head, most likely a hat. That would reduce the chances of losing hair. As for prints, you have to think the POI left a print. However, even if there was print left, if the POI has never been printed, then his prints may not be on file. I would not rule out the possibility that the POI wiped down the car of prints either. Every person who has ever been arrested is aware of fingerprints and their evidentiary value.

Why are the Kesse's so patient with LE on this case? Do they know something we don't know, such as a potential suspect has been identified? OR are they just giving LE the benefit of the doubt?

Just my opinion

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  • #117
Since some of you guys have mentioned there is video, etc. that the police are not releasing is there any chance that there is a cover up/conspiracy by LE in this case?

I don't see how since I recall the Dateline NBC segment when they interviewed LE and they seemed like normal sincere cops but then again even if authorities were covering up in any case they would still appear sincere to pull off a good conspiracy.

But there doesn't seem to be any reason for a cover up unlike the Johnia Berry case in Tennessee where the sheriff refuses to cooperate with national media and the roomate still seems suspicious.

This case really wants to make you :banghead:
 
  • #118
UM; No, I personally don't think there is a conspiracy in this case.

On the other hand, when investigations are done in secret, such as this one, how do we know that the case is unsolved due to "lack of clues" or because of LE errors. Trust me, I'm not here to bash LE. It is just that I have witnessed LE make mistakes in cases due to tunnel vision, lack of effort, lack of resources, etc. In these cases, we all think it was the perfect crime, when it fact it was otherwise. I propose that in order to solve this case, and for the safety of other women in Orlando, that this case should be opened to the public. After all, it is the public who will end up giving the clue to identify the perp.

I just don't like secrecy. Public safety should come first.

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  • #119
The first 48 hours in cases like the Jennifer Kesse case are critical. That is why the police use all resources possible during this period.
However in this instance the investigation didn't get going until her car was found on the Thursday and the 48 hours had ticked by.
They were probably treating Jennifer as a possible runaway or someone who needed some space for those first two days.
The frustrating aspect of this case is everything seems to have conspired to make the case practically unsolvable.

Nobody has seen anything so there are no witnesses.
There is no evidence of a violent assault.
Jennifer can't be located.
In both pictures the POI's face is obscured by gate posts.

If the police have forensic evidence, (which I'm sure they do) then they will have to wait until the perpetrator's DNA or fingerprints appear on data bases.
 
  • #120
Myserty64 said:
The first 48 hours in cases like the Jennifer Kesse case are critical. That is why the police use all resources possible during this period.
However in this instance the investigation didn't get going until her car was found on the Thursday and the 48 hours had ticked by.
They were probably treating Jennifer as a possible runaway or someone who needed some space for those first two days.
That's exactly why I believe we need a special task force for the "missing".
People trained to approach "missing" 911 calls with an urgency in the those first 48 hours.

If You or anyone you know has any information about the disappearance of Jennifer Kesse on Jan. 24, 2006, please call the tip line set up just for You to make that call.

1-407-772-2162 or 1-800-423-8744

www.findjenniferkesse.com
 
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