FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #3

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  • #341
Curves:

Thank you for your support. It really means a lot to have people want us to succeed. Saturday could be a big day. We plan on visiting him, so, hopefully, we can get him to "relieve his burden", as my buddy puts it. Again, thanks.

AS for JK:

I don't believe anything was missing from her condo. Because of this, and a few other reasons, her purse missing, shower wet, etc. LE believes she was abducted "at or near her car".

I agree with you theories, but, I wonder about picking the locks on her car. Would something like that be noticed by LE when inspecting JK's car? Plus, with most cars having alarms, it would point to someone who had expertise in disenabling alarms, which, I for one, wouldn't have a clue. Wouldn't something like that point toward a career criminal, versus a worker?

Regardless, the majority of us are in the same boat. We just have different theories as to how the perp. got a jump on JK.

I've suggested that some perp. will use the "my car won't start" trick, and ask for a ride to the front gate. OR anything that lowers the inhibition of someone who may be scared of your presence.

I don't know about you, but, I am not 100% convinced that JK wasn't abducted in her condo, in the morning, just after her shower. Just an educated guess, but, it would explain a lot.

thanks for the good posts and adding ideas to this forum. Many like to attack on this forum, but, very few add their own ideas.

left

I see that what you're saying. My thoughts re picking the lock were that I feel that this was well thought out and this would have been something that was practised or, if you really wanted too, I am sure it wouldn't be impossible to get a master key if you knew the make and model of the car - which I presume this person would. If someone knows how to pick a lock it can be done very quickly and I don't think it would always be detectable - however a car alarm never even crossed my mind and it's a very good point!

I have read through this thread and I apologise if I am asking you to repeat old ground here, but why do you think she was abducted from her condo after her shower?

Fingers crossed for you for Saturday!
 
  • #342
This is a grrrrrrrrrrrrreat discussion. Lotta bright people here, all of you.

I found a very good transcript from a CNN interview with JK's family and about her disappearance and there are significant pieces of information. here is the link to the transcript.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/07/ng.01.html


what I think is valuable here....

-there has always been comments by the police or JK's father, that he/they KNOW somebody knows the person of people involved. In the link, "what we do know...." or I'm not sure if the person saying that was the father or an investigator but I've read those comments a lot in the articles and stories I've looked up. It certainly adds to the theory of more than one person being involved. Especially the Person of Interest. Drew Kesse has made comments before "come clean now before it's too late" it's as if they know the abductor had an accomplice, either ignorant of what was happening or in cahoots.

-the boyfriend Rob Allen was on the show and had some interesting things. He mentioned that Jennifer was in bed and really tired (which we've all suspected) when she was last heard from about 10 PM during the Rob/Jenn convo. It's unlikely she went out anywhere after that. However this doesn't mean somebody didn't come to her while she was in bed after 10.

-HUGE information that has not been discussed. The normal text message or regular message Jennifer sent to her boyfriend Rob in the morning. I always was under the impression that she did this on the way to work. However based on the comments, in the link provided, that Rob gave, she did this before she left her condo for work. This was also mentioned by a prosecutor Wendy Murphy that the daily message was not sent and it always was before she "even left her condo". The boyfriend, Rob Allen, would know for sure if she usually contacted him before leaving home for the day. This would mean that she was abducted in her house most likely and not walking to her car or in her car. And this most definitely lends credence to the theory shared by many here, that the car was driven away from Mosaic to make it look as if JK had left for the day. And this could've been a middle of the night abduction. The prosecutor Murphy also believes it was somebody who knew JK was there, had access to her because there was no sign of a break-in.

-The boyfriend downplayed the information that Jennifer was feeling unsafe in her complex. He just said he couldn't think of anything in particular, just that any 24 year old woman living alone would have a sense of uneasiness. However another piece of information that might be important, he said that he knew that Jennifer was having work done on her condominium and that he thought the work had recently been completed. I always thought that the whole complex was having work done. If it was just JK's condo, oh forget about it. Gotta be the guy or guys who are alone in her place all day while she's at work. Also, it would make sense that she would be abducted right after the work was being done. it would be so easy to make a copy of the keys to her condo.

I think left coasts comment about the car being dumped at the Huntington place very quickly after JK reported their daughter missing (to the managers or whoever at Mosaic) I think this could be very significant.
 
  • #343
Hi Curves: thanks for the good luck for Saturday. We will need it. I must say, I am a bit concerned over my safety.

As for JK:

We appreciate your ideas. Please don't apoligize for asking questions.

Most people think she was abducted on the way to her car, or while in her car.

The reason I think in her condo makes sense is as follows:

There was a report that Jk awoke one night, and it sounded like somebody was trying to use a key on her condo door. the information was sketchy, so we don't have all the details.

Supposedly, JK had laid out several work outfits on her partially made bed, as if trying to decide which outfit to wear. Most think these outfits were one's JK decided not to wear. I, think that just maybe she was showering, and after showering was trying to decide what to wear, and was interrupted with a knock at the door (just my take), or someone in her condo.

The outfit JK wore to work Monday was perfectly laid out over a chair in her room. My question, isn't it odd one would neatly lay out an outfit which was previously worn on a chair, and then lay clean, unwrinkled work suits on a bed, given the chance of wrinkles.? I guess you would have to know her habits. But, how long does it take to hang up three outfits? I know that I would never leave my suit, dress shirt, etc laying on a bed all day. Wrinkles.

JK had maintenance people working on her condo. It wouldn't take much for one of these people to get a copy of her condo key and surprise her. We had a case where I live, where a guy would break into women's apartments and steal personal items, and the women never knew the guy was ever in their apartment. Creepy.

Also, the locks on JK's condo had not been changed since she bought the condo. How many people had a key to her condo?

In my mind, it explains the lack of witnesses, and being caught off guard.

I'm not an idiot, I realize JK being abducted at or near her car is more likely, but, I just have a hunch.

Take the lady astronaut case, look at all the things that can go wrong in the abduction in the car theory.

It is just my take on things. My opinion. Just my hunch.

And if the perp. was a fellow tenant or employee, he could easily move JK to an empty condo, his condo. etc. Who is to say that JK ever got in her car that morning? Unless of course LE has video, which I doubt at this time.

IMO

left
 
  • #344
I used to think that she was in her car or getting into her car when she was abducted but I think, now, it is more likely she was in her condo or just leaving her condo when this all happened.
 
  • #345
Hey Enrique: good to hear from you again

Are you 100% sure that JK would send the text message or phone call from home everyday? I'm not questioning you, it is just I heard elsewhere it was on her way to work. However, if the prosecutor states this, there must be some credence. Then, why is LE so intent that JK was abducted "at or near her car". It seems to contradict the prosec.

From what I have heard, I too find it very unlikely JK went out MOnday night to mail that package. Either way, that package would not be shipped until Tuesday, especially if it was 10pm, it seems like it would be past the cut off time.

Thanks for noting about my comment about the timing of dumping JK's car and her parents calling Mosiac. that has always bothered me. It could be a coincidence, or it could be her car was parked elsewhere on the grounds, and employee heard the news, and got rid of the car.

I'm starting to raise the chance of Jk being abducted in her condo. from what we have heard, she just doesn't sound like someone who would be caught off guard walking in a parking lot. Every woman knows parking lots are dangerous areas.

I still think the Drew Kesse's statement about an accomplice, before it is too late, is a prepared statement from LE or FBI, and is a fishing expedition, where you pretend to know more than you do to break down the psyche of the perp.

again, nice to hear from you enrique.

left
 
  • #346
yes nice to hear from you again too left. it took forever to get caught up in all the pages I missed!

the thing about when JK regularly contacted her bf is one of the frustrating things about not having all the info in cases like this. the boyfriend would absolutely know the answer to this and it's a huge thing, just huge if she pretty much always texted him or called him while she was running around and finishing breakfast, gathering her work stuff, etc, OR if she usually was on her way to work. Also he would know if there was no set pattern and whether it was every workday thing which it sounds like. If there was no set pattern, either at home, in the car, walking into work, whatever then this isn't as big a deal. But it sounds like right before she left.

In hindsight, it was probably not wise for JK's parents to contact the managers at that complex. They might know what happened or can alert somebody or have it cleaned up. It would've been better for them to show up unannounced.

by the way, whoever took that picture, drumstick I think, the picture of the route the POI was taking, thanks, do you have anymore? it's very difficult for me to understand the layout of that place based on the POI photos and the aerial view of the scene. I would love pictures from all angles in that area and exactly where the POI was when the camera captured him walking by. Was it the spot right where the car was parked? Or all the way around the pool. There seems to be a curved fence around the pool structure. And in the POI photos, there is like some kind of brick wall or structure beyond the POI and a small grassy, sloped area. Where is this in relation to the aerial photos? Thanks.

seriously, i think if we all met in Orlando and took over this case, we could solve it, we don't have any other police work to focus on like the Cops do. We could so do it.


if it were me and one of my dearly loved ones went missing like this, I would offer a $100 million dollar award. And I would have no intention of paying it. If that kind of money brought somebody forward and led me to my missing, if they then asked for their reward, I would simply tell them to go to hell and shame on them for withholding facts from my loved one's disappearance.
 
  • #347
Enrique:

If you have DSL, try this link, it is video of the Kesse's viewing HOTG, and the spot the POI was standing is at .31 seconds of the video, the policewoman/sci gal is standing in as the pOI.http://www.wftv.com/video/6885628/detail.html

Also, go back to the stations archives, and archive pages 30-40 are several more video's of HOTG.

enjoy

left
 
  • #348
Thanks left!
 
  • #349
  • #350
Wow, there has been a lot of activity on this thread and it's great to see.
The real bonus is there are so many constructive and thought provoking posts so well done to everyone.
It is difficult to keep posts fresh when mostly we are reworking the same information but the important thing is we are keepng Jennifer's case to the forefront. Stay with it everyone and hopefully soon we will see the evil person who committed this crime brought to justice.

Reading through the posts reminded me the condo right opposite Jennifer's was empty. I wonder if it was checked by forensics.
As Mr Kesse has said over and over 'this mystery began when Jennifer closed her condo door.'

I remember Greta Van Susteren saying when she visited where Kennifer's condo was; 'it would be easy to nab someone here'
My belief is she abducted in or at her car however I appreciate and understand other viewpoints.


Finally does anyone know this:
'once she left her condo building how far did Jennifer have to walk in the open to her car?'
 
  • #351
Enrique Sparta noted what Jennifer's boyfriend said on the Nancy Grace show.
Note that this is about the time and method of their communication. The bold highlights are mine.

JENNIFER KESSE`S BOYFRIEND: Nothing out of the ordinary. I`ve known Jennifer for about the last 12 months, and we talked periodically throughout the day every day, every night before she goes to bed, every morning before, when she wakes up. We`d recently just come back from a vacation, and we talked throughout the day on Monday, and then Monday evening, she called me `round about 10:00 o`clock. She was in bed. She was tired from the vacation that we had just recently taken, had a long day at work. We talked briefly. No problem at all. We both said we missed each other and we were looking forward to the next time we were going to spend with each other.

If the words 'every moring before, when she wakes up' mean what I think they mean then maybe we better look at the condo! And I might have to revise my 'abduction at the car theory.'

Remember she never contacted her boyfriend in any manner that morning.
 
  • #352
Yes, kudo's to Enrique for finding that quote

Remember, LE has also stated to keep a timeline of 10pm until 8am open.

Obviously, LE doesn't have any proof of the exact time the abduction occurred

Don't know distance from JK's condo to her assigned spot. However, have viewed photo's, and she is on the 2nd floor. Even at her car was closeby, that is still a lot of area.

I can't imagine LE doing forensics on the empty condo across from hers. Heck, as far as we know, forensics were never done on Jk's condo, let alone an empty one. Good point. At least the dog should have gone through it. IF of course, you believe in dogs. I know I do.

It seems to me if JK was so security conscious with the 'safe call", why wouldn't she employ such a "safe call", each and every morning on the way to her car. Every woman knows parking lots are dangerous spots.

Think about it, the text messaging, the calls to RA in the am, part of it could have been to keep RA up to date on her progress to work, without telling RA she was a little scared of her surroundings.

I've seen a ton of women do this. They want to give the impression they are talking, but, you can tell part of the reason for the cell is because they are scared of the parking lot, train, bus, etc. Good common sense.


From what I gather, it is possible JK's abduction started in the condo. I've always thought that was more likely.

In the condo, you wouldn't have to worry about screaming, running, witnesses, or what happened when they nutcase astronaut tried to abduct her ex-boyfriends new girlfriend. It goes to show, when it comes to obsession, women can get a little violent and out of sorts as well as men.

However, the Kesse's, and most of the people on this board jumped on the "way to the car" theory.

Regardless, I wouldn't rule either one in or out.

Just because there isn't blood in Jk's condo, or a sign of a struggle, doesn't mean the condo isn't the crime scene. Heck, there isn't any blood, sign of a struggle, etc. in the car, and LE was wise enough to treat that as a potential crime scene.

keep up the good work Enrique, Mystery, UK, Curves.

left

ps Somebody mentioned earlier about getting the names of everyone who used the cellsites in JK's area on the day of her abduction.

It sounds like a good idea, and is a good idea. the only problem is that in a densely populated area, one would expect at least a few hundred to a thousand people who used their cell phones in that area. Don't forget, cell sites can receive calls for miles, depending on the terrain, and the next closest cell site.

It appears to be a dense area. Plus, even though we have lost a lot of rights after 9/11, LE would still have to get a subpeona from a judge to gather that information. Other agencies, don't need such approval.

Trust me, I don't see that happening. The judge would consider everything. First, there is zero evidence the POI used a cell phone.

Second, in my state, people were known to be missing, and the cell phone companies would not even give the family cell phone information. There is a reason for this.

A judge stepped in, but only gave information related to that person's cell phone information.

with my little knowledge, I just don't see a judge who would issue a subpeona to a cell site owner requiring them to gather every person's name, address, cell phone number, that used a cell site during the day of the abduction.

I can't imagine how much time such data would take to even gather.

Even if the judge did, if may be helpful, but at the same time, are you going to question every single person who made a call? Wouldn't that take a ton of man power? We could be talking close to a thousand people, maybe even more.

However, I agree with the premise. If we had proof that the POI was on the phone while the photo at HOTG was taken, then I think you have a time, a place, and know for certain a call was made. Then, I could see asking a judge for a subpeona related to the nearest cell site, listing every call that was made or received at a specific time. Then, you can prove why this information is relevant, versus a fishing expedition, which is not grounds for a subpeona. I still wonder if such information would be issued, but, it would be worth a shot.

Even if you received such information, one would expect just about every resident, every worker, and every potential suspect to have made a call from that cell site. If Jk's car was found out in the middle of tin-buck-two, then I believe cell site information would be huge. Only a few people using the site, get a list of callers, and see if any of the callers names match known workers at HOTG.


IMO
 
  • #353
Sharing some information

I have information about how and why JK's family was informed so quickly after her disappearance.

Everybody has always wondered how and why the Kesse's were informed so quickly about Jk's disappearance.

According to Rob, Jk was a no-show at work.

Eventually, JK's boss called a co-worker that he knew was best friends with Drew and Joyce Kesse.

Alarmed, this personal friend, called the Kesse home asking about JK.

then, the parents called Jk's cell, got voicemail, became alarmed, called Rob, then called the Mosaic management team to check on Jk's condo.

It all makes sense now. It is a small world.

left
 
  • #354
keep up the good work Enrique, Mystery, UK, Curves.

left

ps Somebody mentioned earlier about getting the names of everyone who used the cellsites in JK's area on the day of her abduction.

It sounds like a good idea, and is a good idea. the only problem is that in a densely populated area, one would expect at least a few hundred to a thousand people who used their cell phones in that area. Don't forget, cell sites can receive calls for miles, depending on the terrain, and the next closest cell site.

It appears to be a dense area. Plus, even though we have lost a lot of rights after 9/11, LE would still have to get a subpeona from a judge to gather that information. Other agencies, don't need such approval.

Trust me, I don't see that happening. The judge would consider everything. First, there is zero evidence the POI used a cell phone.
Yes, thank you all for your great discussion and ideas.

Consider tracking 15,000 flight records looking for one little boy.
That's what you have in the Trenton Duckett case.
No one ever said solving a crime was fast or easy.

I don't care what they have to do to solve this case, I just want it solved.
If they need to supeona every cell phone record for everyone
connected to Jennifer then so be it.
I hope they supeona everyone and everything to get to the bottom
of what happened to this young lady.
Someone knows exactly what happened to her that day and all the
reward money in the world isn't going to make them talk, so le needs
to go in a different direction, I agree.

Whatever it takes ...

thanks again~
 
  • #355
Drumstick:

I couldn't agree with you more about using every legal means to solve this case. As a matter of fact, if I were the Kesse's, I would use every method, legal or not, to find my daughter. Including paying informants, doing my own background checks on employees, etc.

If you want this solved, why won't you agree that maybe, just maybe, a P.I. could help in this case.

LE should do everything in their power to solve this case.

Every life is precious. That includes all 100,000 people missing in our country.

I agreed with you about the cell sites. I just think if we can't get LE to go over and check measurements, re-interview witnesses, have road blocks outside HOTG and Mosaic, etc. How can we expect them to check out all of this information?

There is a difference between checking out flights, looking for a little boy, who is known to have gone missing, under suspicious circumstances and the cell sites. One is targeting a certain age group, and does not infringe on the rights and privacy of individual citizens. Also, we know Duckett's mom became a notoriety, just before he vanished, so, there is belief that he could have traveled out of the country with forged information.

Let's not kid ourselves.

We both know that LE puts in a lot more time and resources looking for missing kids than missing adults. It is just a fact.

Maybe if Nancy Grace wasn't so confrontational with Duckett's mom, she would have led police to more clues. Instead, Duckett's mom became dillusional,and unfortunately shot herself to death. What if she had nothing to do with Trenton's disappearance. What if, she simply hid the boy in a custody battle? It is a shame that some of the tv anchors decide to play "perry mason", and a 22 year old is now dead, and a father is without his little son.

Somebody should tell Nancy that playing possum in a case does work. Not everyone is guilty. Some prosecutors assume guilt, until one proves innocence, and we see where that gets us in many cases.

There is only so much time and resources for local police. the feds are assisting in the duckett case, so, additional resources are available.

I agree that every resource should be used. Not only that, but, every fact, as we know it, should be checked to see if somewhere along the line, somebody was overlooked. ( For example, just today, Enrique comes up with a huge find, that went un-noticed since day one) That, is the most probable outcome in this case. the real perp. has been eliminated due to being overlooked, ie, having an alibi that wasn't checked out, wrong size, etc.

I really dont' believe that somewhere, somehow, the real perp.'s name has not been called in to LE.

call me a pessimist, but, unless there is a different strategy, this case will not be solved. somewhere along the line, a mistake has been made.

Of course, IMO

left
 
  • #356
Enrique Sparta noted what Jennifer's boyfriend said on the Nancy Grace show.
Note that this is about the time and method of their communication. The bold highlights are mine.

JENNIFER KESSE`S BOYFRIEND: Nothing out of the ordinary. I`ve known Jennifer for about the last 12 months, and we talked periodically throughout the day every day, every night before she goes to bed, every morning before, when she wakes up. We`d recently just come back from a vacation, and we talked throughout the day on Monday, and then Monday evening, she called me `round about 10:00 o`clock. She was in bed. She was tired from the vacation that we had just recently taken, had a long day at work. We talked briefly. No problem at all. We both said we missed each other and we were looking forward to the next time we were going to spend with each other.

If the words 'every moring before, when she wakes up' mean what I think they mean then maybe we better look at the condo! And I might have to revise my 'abduction at the car theory.'

Remember she never contacted her boyfriend in any manner that morning.
I appreciate your post. I was booboo'd on another forum for saying that I think the boyfriend could have been involved with her disappearance. Let's face it, no one knows who actually saw Jennifer last.

The one question I have is this--why did LE zoom in on the POI caught on the security camera? Was that person seen near her car? Condo?
 
  • #357
Welcome Philamena

first of all, everyone is welcome to his or her opinion.

I know what you are talking about. Some people think they own the internet, and this case in particular. You are welcome to your own thoughts.

The boyfriend is always the first place to look.

And the last person to talk with a missing person is always a suspect.

Unless they are totally inept, you would think that LE would have checked out where RA was from the time he talked to JK, until the time the car was found. A three hour drive is not out of the question. But, I think in this case he has probably been looked at, and eliminated. It certainly doesn't look like RA in the picture of the poi. But, some have thought the POI could be an accomplice, Personally, I think it unlikely that RA had anything to do with this. Only because LE would and should have checked him out first.

As for the POI, it is presumed by most of us, that LE captured not only a time the car was dropped at HOTG, but, who dropped it. Most of us believe the POI was in JK's car, was captured on video, walked around the pool, and is captured on the second camera, ie the infamous shot. HOwever, LE refuses to release this information. Which, most of us believe is holding up this investigation.

again, welcome

left
 
  • #358
Welcome Philamena

first of all, everyone is welcome to his or her opinion.

I know what you are talking about. Some people think they own the internet, and this case in particular. You are welcome to your own thoughts.

The boyfriend is always the first place to look.

And the last person to talk with a missing person is always a suspect.

Unless they are totally inept, you would think that LE would have checked out where RA was from the time he talked to JK, until the time the car was found. A three hour drive is not out of the question. But, I think in this case he has probably been looked at, and eliminated. It certainly doesn't look like RA in the picture of the poi. But, some have thought the POI could be an accomplice, Personally, I think it unlikely that RA had anything to do with this. Only because LE would and should have checked him out first.

As for the POI, it is presumed by most of us, that LE captured not only a time the car was dropped at HOTG, but, who dropped it. Most of us believe the POI was in JK's car, was captured on video, walked around the pool, and is captured on the second camera, ie the infamous shot. HOwever, LE refuses to release this information. Which, most of us believe is holding up this investigation.

again, welcome

left
leftcost,
Thanks so much for the thoughtful welcome. :)
I've followed Jennifer's case from the beginning and I simply can't accept the fact that Jennifer went poof! Someone knows something...someone saw something, someone heard something, because there is no such thing as a perfect crime.

I need to reread some of the earlier articles but if I remember correctly, there were other fingerprints in her car and the inside of the car was found in disarray. For me one of the biggest questions is when exactly did she disappear?
 
  • #359
Philamena:

You are welcome.

I enjoy hearing other's ideas, thoughts, etc. It prevents one from getting tunnel vision, and only considering one scenario, when there are quite a few out there. If one has a good theory, then people questioning their theory should only strengthen their argument, and should not be taken personally.

Maybe, you have read more. But, I was under the impression that LE has not released any information about prints, etc. which were retrieved from the car.

If you find any info. on prints, etc. from the car, we would all be grateful.

I also don't think there is such a thing as a perfect crime. Especially with today's forensics, CCTV, fingerprints, DNA, etc.

One thing I did note is how perfectly the car was parked at HOTG. The car is parked straight, within the lines of the space, and not too far forward. Tells ya, the guy drives everyday. iMO

left
 
  • #360
I don't think LE has a better picture of the POI, I think that's all they have. It makes no sense for them not to release a more clear image of this person.

However I believe they have some brief or partial footage of JK's car being pulled into that apartment complex, and a very short time later, the POI walking by. This is probably the most likely scenario and it would make sense with all the questions surrounding the POI.

Still I'd like to see the other security camera or whatever they have of her car or however they know about the POI, I'd like to see the other videos, if for no other reason than I'm tired of looking at the useless photos we do have.
 
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