FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #3

[Myserty64]

Hi Left,

Can you check your maps on this please (in bold):

Police want to hear from anyone who may have seen the Chevy Malibu anytime after 10pm Monday night, when Jennifer last spoke to her boyfriend, and Thursday morning at 8am, when the car was found.

Detectives think Jennifer herself, or someone else, was traveling on South John Young Parkway, between Texas and Americana and Conroy Road by the Mall of Millenia, during that time frame.

A manager at the 7-Eleven along John Young and Americana confirmed that police collected their outdoor surveillance tapes looking for clues.

I always assumed the car would have been driven along Conroy/Americana but the way it is written above it was on South John Young Parkway.

Thanks, M64

 

[Myserty64]

Here is a good example of the police not wanting to give out any information.
This statement was made when the POI pictures were first released.
I can't understand this secrecy when public assistance is being sought. I believe this type of vagueness caused the investigation to lose momentum.

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Investigators in Orlando, Fla., released surveillance photos of a man who they believe may have information about the disappearance of a missing Orlando woman, according to Local 6 News.

Two photos released Saturday show a man walking near a fence around noon last Tuesday after 24-year-old Jennifer Kesse mysteriously vanished. Police would not say exactly where the photos were taken but said they were pulled from video shot in the area of Texas Avenue and Americana Boulevard. Kesse's 2004 Chevrolet Malibu was found abandoned in the same area at the Huntington on the Green apartment complex on Jan. 26.

Investigators said the person in the photo is not a suspect but a "person of interest."

They would not say exactly why the man stood out from other pedestrians videotaped in the area.

 

[leftcoast]

Mystery: Regarding JK's car being driven on Monday night/ Tuesday morning

this is the item I was talking about yesterday.

AS you know, I live over 3,000 miles away, so I'm not that familar with the streets.

But, from looking at mapquest, I am assuming that Americana and Conroy are the same roads. They run east and west. Traveling east, one would pass the Mall of Millenia, then Mosaic, then intersect with S. John Young Parkway, and eventually intersect with Texas ave., in which HOTG is located.

Assuming, I have that correct, I believe the following.

I believe that police statement is simply a fishing expedition.

It would appear the most direct route from Mosaic to HOTG is straight down Conroy to Texas, and then a left on Texas, and a left into HOTG.

I believe that LE is covering all bases. that is, assuming that JK could have tried to mail a package at the mall, or tried to drive to work on S. John Young Parkway, before she was abducted. IF that makes any sense.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Mystery:

Agreed. I think LE tries to get a little cute in what information they are going to leak. I understand why LE does hold back information, but, sometimes it is ridiculous.

A perfect example is the Unabomber case. The FBI held the information close to their vest for almost 20 years. It wasn't until the newspapers printed the Manifesto by the Unabomber that a clue was caught by the Unabomber's brother. It was a simple error, the Unabomber would mistakenly say, you can't eat your cake and have it to, when the saying is the other way. A perfect example of how one tiny clue issued to the public solved the case. Make no mistake, the Unabomber's brother solved that case, not the FBI or ATF.

Haven't we learned anything from these cases? The public solves many of the difficult cases, just ask America's Most Wanted.

left

 

[UK Sleuth]

Investigators said the person in the photo is not a suspect but a "person of interest."

Excuse my french but what the f*ck sort of statement is that for LE to make?

Perhaps im getting to wound up but what is a poi anyway when you think about it?

It tells us nothing really.

Anyone related to the case is a 'person of interest' its a dumb made up politically correct description.

Lets argue for instance that the poi is nothing to do with this case but are an illegal alien, they may be more likely to come forward and clear their name if they feel they are a suspect.(in return for ignoring their status in the US)

We all believe the poi is involved but I hope you get my point.

Also they may even be more inclined to come forward it they are considered a 'witness' not a poi its well known that offenders often intentionally become embroiled in their cases, they get off on it and if LE could lure them in by saying 'we believe this person may be a key witness in the JK case'

They come forward then bam you play your trump card by proving that the poi dumped the car.

Maybe Im being pedantic about this but the information given out by LE to me confuses the case more than if we knew nothing, the only thing they have offered is a crap CCTV picture of someone who is a 'person of interest'

It just annoys me for the Kesse's that after 14 months LE still want people to come forward but have nothing new to tell.

Well LE tell all you know, you never know what you may trigger in someone else, lefts unabomber is a prime example.

Put everything out you know or suspect and give every possible chance for the public to assist in hopefully rescuing this poor girl or giving some closure to her family.

If I were the Kesses I would be going ballistic unless they know something we dont, trouble is there doesnt seem to have been any development in a year!!!



Lefts unabomber being a prime example.

 

[UK Sleuth]

FAO Myserty64

Regarding your point on the poi having a 2 day start on the authorities, I understand your point but I would have thought LE could establish who should and shouldn't have been on the mosaic premises that day.

If I were there and a P.I I would do the following:

Get cast iron alibis for the residents from 10pm - 10am, verify them and dont discount those ones that are suspicious, e.g if someone says they were at work on nightshift that can be verified, one who says I was with my buddy at HOTG I would hold onto.

Find out which workers were there those days, there should be work orders, schedules for who was there, if someone was employed by another resident get them to declare who it was, contact details etc.

Check, double check and check again every movement of Residents and workers.

Get to a point in time where you know everyone who was suppossed to be on the Mosaic complex those 2 days and what they were doing(needless to say look for a likeness to the poi.)

At the same time I would get all the same info for all that attended the weekend her brother was at her condo, was there anyone there that he didnt know very well? Either way get the detail, I would happily give mine in any investigation I have nothing to hide.

If you elimintate all of them as suspects then move on to anyone who had worked there in the 2 months that JK had lived there.

Honestly how many people are we talking about?
A few hundred in total with workers and residents?

Rule out the women for a start so thats about half gone.

These people can be traced with a bit of effort and Im sure everyone except the perp would be willling to provide the information.

A bit of graft could uncover the truth here.

Reach a point in time when you can say hand on heart that you dont believe anybody connected to the mosaic did it.

Dont forget JK aired her concerns before she vanished, something spooked her, an intelligent educated young girl, not a teenager making a fuss over nothing, something occurred.

If you dont have a suspect from there move out to the surrounding areas, the mall at millennia, HOTG apartments, JKs work colleagues.

If that doesnt get anywhere then it really is needle in a haystack time.

I dont want my post above to sound anti LE i admire the job they do I just know that its not always done thoroughly they are human and also dont always have the resource available to do what I think should be done.

Theres a lot of crime about and only so much time can be spent on one case unfortunately.

Thats my two penneth for today anyway.

 

[leftcoast]

Wow UK: fired up today

Agree with your long list:

Drumstick asked what was the first thing I would do if assigned to this case: I now have a better answer.

Obviously, someone spooked JK, someone who most likely was fixing her condo, after she moved in. I think the KEsse's call it "a work list" or something. Craftmanship not completed correcty the first time.

Anyway, we are only talking about two months.

Have Mosaic pull every work order, work order request, etc. that JK asked for since she moved in (we're probably talking between 5-15 requests, one would think). Every homebuilder keeps a list. PLus, on these orders, is the name of the company, and most likely the employee who did the work.

In addition, there must be some type of liaison who worked in the Mosaic sales office, or maintenance, who was in charge of arranging the work to be done on Jk's condo. This person should have a list, and intimate details of every work order.

It is in these details, that I believe you could find the answer.

Remember, it doesnt' necessarily mean the worker (if the perp.) was even scheduled to work at Mosaic the day JK disappeared. Maybe, he only worked at Mosaic, and specifically at JK's on one occasion. He could have fixed plumbing, painted, electrical, tilework, etc. But, he remembered her, knew she was single, living by herself, etc. and came back a month or two later.

That is where I would start. I think JK had a hunch, and the creeps, and this may just be the answer.

Again, the clues seem to center around the manager, sales staff, and maintenance at the complex, one way or another.

left

 

[UK Sleuth]

Apologies for my agressive posts yesterday I was having a bad day although I stand by what I said lol.

Left totally agree with what you say and if it is a worker involved then its quite probable they werent due to be working at Mosaic that day.

If it was planned then you would ensure that you were supposed to be elsewhere or nowhere.

My theory is eliminate all that should have been there that day and then move onto previous workers or more likely some that work there occasionally(In other words someone who has seen Jennifer on several occasions and developed a fixation)

Dont know what the US is like but most decorators, craftsman etc are self employed here, they may do contract work for a particular company that do work for complexes like Mosaic but generally they are self employed.

e.g My pal does Sub contract work as an Electrician for a particular company for 3 days a week, the rest is his own private work.

What Im getting at is if the perp had picked out JK as a target from a previous visit its quite possible that they could schedule to have no work for the day of the attack.

Just another theory, one of manyl.

What are your thoughts on the timing of the attack?
This really bothers me.

What I mean is if we assume this was planned then its an odd time to do it when she has just got back from vacation?

You would think if someone was watching her they would wait for her to be back in a routine for a few days?

Did the perp know she was on vacation with her boyfriend?
Did this enrage the perp?
If he did know she was going away how did he know?

Has this going away with b/f driven the perp to despair and then bam he's had to act as soon as she's back therefore its not as planned as we may think?

Imagine he has been observing her daily, his obsession growing and then she's gone for a while, its driven him crazy?

Just some more thoughts but it is odd timing to me.

More and more this feels like the act of stalker who became very quickly obsessed with her.

Im not expecting you to answer all the above of course just be interested to hear any thoughts you have regarding timing of abduction.

 

[shwa]

What a great question Drumstick.
The first thing i would do is ... saturate the area around Mosaic and HOTG with a very visible police presence, both marked and unmarked police vehicles. I would then tell all the street level drug dealers that it will continue and hopefully hurt their business ... until some very promising leads were given concerning this case.

 

[leftcoast]

HI UK:

I was mainly teasing you about your posts yesterday, didn't know you were having a bad day. We're glad today is better.

We all appreciate your entries.

As far as contractors, it is basically the same here.

My best friend is a contractor, and like you said, most of them work here and there for a day, and move on to the next job.

Espeically if they have a trade, such as plumber, electrician, etc.

Unless of course, they are building a high rise, or housing development, which does not apply here.

I agree timing of JK's abduction is kind of odd, and then it isn't.

If he was a stalker, and steaming over the weekend, maybe he was going to do something MOnday am, and JK was not at home.

This clown could have been watching her every morning for a while.

Think about it, JK was gone Thursday -Monday, and the first morning back, she disappears. He had four or five days to plan it, if it was planned.

Maybe in his twisted head he thought he had a chance with JK, found out about the vacation, and realized he was dillusional and had zero chance.

Sadly, it is probably not too far from the truth. IMO

left

 

[leftcoast]

Why this case is much larger than one person?IMO

Do we really think that the POI in this case is really a first time offender.?

Do we really think he is going to stop committing crimes, especially after getting away with such a high profile crime?

Answer is "no"

All this case did is teach the POI to look for camera's the next time he is dumping a car.

I honestly believe, that the POI, the little punk, is chuckling, thinking he got away with this crime.

I don't think he looks anything like the picture of the POI. Why? Because the camera distorted his height, weight, his build, the color of his clothes, and the color of his hair (he is obviously wearing a hat or helmet).

This case needs to be solved, not just for the sake of JK and her family, but for the safety of women in Florida.

Let's stop Mickey Mousing around, come up with some money for a cold case squad, private investigator, or a new plan. Nothing is more precious than a life, especially an innocent woman with her life in front of her.

We can put a man on the moon, but, can't find out who is in a picture taken from a camera? Come on. Barney Fife could do better.

I know the city of Orlando can do better. Time to step up. If you have to, add a 25 cent tax on every admission to Disney World to fund a missing adult reaction squad for the state, or a cold case squad.

Status quo is not acceptable. From watching tv, it appears that Florida has a huge problem with sex offenders.

I know some cases are very difficult to solve, and take a lot of work. But, doesnt' JK and the people of Orlando deserve a better effort in this case? I think so.

left

Ps I'm not having a bad day, I'm just sick and tired of this case not being solved. Forget the final piece of the puzzle, let's start a new puzzle, and start over.

 

[UK Sleuth]

Cheers on better form today work doing my head yesterday although trying to figure out if I can change my career to something more interesting, beer testing sounds good.....

I tend to think that that the perp is very local and dont think that he is a transient and miles away as I said before this all has a very local feel to it.

JMHO of course.

Who knows what the outcome will be, one can only hope that if it is the work of a stalker she may be still alive somewhere obviously as time goes on that chance diminishes.

So sad and unnecessary so many twisted people out there full of rage and their own self importance.

My friend often says 'the worlds full of nutters', he's not wrong.

 

[Myserty64]

I have been reading about women being abducted in cars and the MO in every case is much the same.
The abductor suddenly appears at the door of the car and usually just as the victim has settled into the seat. The abductor may engage the victim in some trivial conversation such as "I've been looking for condo number 1009 but I can't seem to find the right block.'
Then the abductor's demeanor suddenly changes as a weapon is produced and he will say something like:
'don't make a ******* move or any noise. See this knife? Well if you don't do what I tell you you'll get this in your gut.'

In this case the abductor had a knife with a 4 inch blade and the victim was ordered into the back of the car and then onto the floor.
The difference here is this abduction was at night rather than the accepted daylight in Jennifer's case.

What do you think happened in Jennifer's case?
If the abductor appeared at the door did he drive the car?
Did Jennifer sit in the front passenger seat or did she drive with abductor riding in the passenger seat?
Is there another scenario altogether?

Congratulations on good posts left & UK.

UK, do you follow cricket or have you followed the Bob Woolmer murder investigation?

 

[Myserty64]

UK and left,

As one Christopher Marlowe wrote sometime ago, a tradesman could have had his van parked right alongside Jennifer's car that morning. She could have been bundled into the van, through the sliding door in the side, in an instant and the whole crime could have been committed in that work van.

Like him or loathe him (CM) it is a good theory and as good as any explanation I have seen.
The police were well aware of his writing but I have no idea what their opinion was.

If she was abducted in a van it explains why there is no signs of a struggle and no spilt evidence and no witnesses. I mean if you blinked you would have missed it because it was that quick.

 

[UK Sleuth]

At the moment I'm torn between Jennifer being abducted in her car as described by yourself or her being taken to an empty condo in mosaic and the car being moved as a diversion although with what we have to work with my theory can change daily!!!

I dont see any reason why as a perp you would get into her car unless she was already in it unless you were moving it as a diversion, to make it look like she had left the complex.

I think one of two scenarios took place and I cant make my mind up which:

1) JK is in her car, abductor approaches gets in as you have described above and forces Jennifer to drive somewhere, she is then restrained and at some point the poi whom I believe to be the perp drives the car to HOTG.

Floor in this theory: Why go back to the Mosaic complex(scene of the crime) and not back to wherever JK is?

Answer: Perp had to go back to avoid suspicion was working, lived there etc.

2) JK is abducted at gun point and taken to a neighbours/empty condo in mosaic, restrained and gagged, poi moves car to away from Mosaic to HOTG so when LE come looking it appears as though she has left for work taking the search elsewhere(Took 2 days to find the car so it worked)

Floor in the theory: Abducting her and then keeping her at the same complex leaves you wide open for capture if LE search the complex.

Regarding Bob Woolmer yes I do follow cricket I'm not an avid fan but England are playing today so am interested.

More of a football man(soccer not NFL) but I have been following the case I dont suppose it has made big news over the water?

Very odd, cricket has been known to be quite corrupt unlike its old fashioned English gentleman type image.

I take it you have been following the case?

 

[leftcoast]

Hey Mystery:

Thanks for the compliment

I've always thought one of two things happened. 1) POI jumps in the passenger seat with pistol, forces jk to drive, probably tells her he needs money from atm, this would explain why the passenger seat, imo, is so far back and reclined. 2) car was moved to simply throw off LE

I do remember Christopher Marlowe's writings.

He appeared to be well spoken.

HE was basically thrown off the discussion boards for his opinions, which I thought was censorship, and non-american. I agree with a lot of his theories. He was obviously a very good writer.

HOwever, given this just happened, I believe he was kind of cruel and cold in his explanations, as if, he was enjoying talking about it. That was not cool. Plus, many of his writings were written as if he was actually there. Creepy.

I found it to be rather callous, and raised suspicions.

Many thought CM was the perp.

I think he was what he said, a teacher and author, but, like I said, some of his comments were callous.

I think CM should have thought that maybe the Kesse's or others would be offended by his remarks.

I must admit, CM kind of gave me the creeps. I think he meant well, but, he forgot this isn't tv or a book. This is real life. A living woman is missing. OR then again, maybe CM was trying to use the publicity of this case to get someone to publish the book he said he was working on. If so, shame on him.

left

 

[Myserty64]

Left,

CM had my blood running cold! I'll never forget when I read his first scenario; talk about getting the creeps! I thought if he wasn't the perp at the least he was writing a first hand report.
If nothing else he was an exceptional writer. I have posted at numerous MB's over the years and I have never ever come across anyone who could write like he did. He was a wordsmith.

UK,
I have followed English cricket since the days of Ted Dexter and Colin Cowdrey! I'm not getting any younger either.
I don't think all is going to plan in the Bob Woolmer investigation. There is something fishy with that case. JMHO.

Question;

Can Jennifer's family ask the police to see her case file?
Can they demand the truth on where her case stands today?

I cannot understand why they never hired a PI even as far back as a couple of months after Jennifer vanished. It was obvious the police investigation was stalling after a few weeks.
With no disrespect to them I sometimes wonder if there were things they just didn't want to know.
I have lived in denial myself for periods of time so I empathize with the stance.

 

[drumstick]

I read CM's first scenario of this crime.
I found it very well written and concise.
He eventually ruined his reputation by writing racist remarks on forums
and blasting local law enforcement with unfounded claims.

I have the greatest respect for law enforcement, especially in Florida.

A comment was made about sex offenders in FL ...
If you look at the National Registry for Sex Offenders you'll discover that
every state has more than their fair share.
I believe law enforcement in FL has a proactive stance on finding them and prosecuting them.
FL also leads the nation in writing legislation for new laws to help law
enforcement go after criminals.

With that said, le are human and make mistakes just like everyone else.
We, the public, need to give them our support and help, not blast them
or trip them up with bogus tips and false information.

In Jennifer's case, I hope this case is close to being solved.
I'm reminded how young adults feel invincable and have no fears.
Something happened to change that for Jennifer.

IMO ~

 

[UK Sleuth]

Left it seems that our two theories are similar and we are singing from the same hymn sheet as it were.

Myserty regarding CMs theory I agree it is a good theory, the one thing that doesnt fit in to me is and again I am repeating myself.....

Why involve JKs car at all?

If CM is right and a worker bundled JK into a van and then took off why come back to move her car?

You could be long gone with her whilst LE are at mosaic looking for clues from her car and condo.

The car being moved exposes you to:

Being seen by LE
Being seen by someone who knows Jennifer
CCTV(This happened)
Physical evidence linking you to the crime, prints, fibres, etc.

The fact the car is involved at all suggests two possbilities to me:

1) She was in it with the perp and they drove away from Mosaic.

2) Its a diversion tactic and JK did not get into her car that morning at all, the keys were taken from her and it was moved.(When I say diversion I mean to divert away from Mosaic)

You would have to be an idiot to abduct someone and then go driving her car around for no reason at all, you might as well stamp 'perp' on your forehead whilst your doing it.

I dont think the perp is an idiot, I just dont buy that a worker bundled her in a van drove off and then came back to move her car.

There must be a reason the car was involved and I think 1 or 2 above is the answer.

Again trying to read between the lines I think the perp is intrensically(SP?)linked to mosaic.

Think about it on a disposal level, you are the perp who has abducted a girl you would want any sign of her away from where you are, you cant move her condo and contents but you can get rid of her car from the immdiate area.

What is it in Silence of the lambs?
'We covet what we see everyday' regarding the only girls body that was weighted down.

I dont want to get all Hollywood on this serious case but the prinicipal is the same to me, Im the perp and I have taken JK, I am also going to remove the car from the scene and any link to me/the mosaic.

Remove any sign of her, okay the car didnt go a million miles but you get my point, get in the perps head, by moving the car he may think LE will think she was carjacked en route to work and thus again shifting focus away from Mosaic.

The bloodhound tracked the person back to mosaic after dropping the car.

If the perp took her in a van somewhere that means he:

Took her away from mosaic, then came back to move her car.

Took the car away from mosaic to HOTG, then came back to mosaic again!

Why, why, why?

They are linked to that complex in some way IMHO, if we get a resolution on this I will be shocked if they are not.

 

[Myserty64]

All the things the perp did that day, whether logical to us or not, have so far worked for him because he is still free.
The moving of the car is a real mystery but if it was done purely as a diversion then it worked.
In fact, every move the perp has made has been successful because he continues to elude the police.

I agree the police generally do a great job but when they mess a case up they usually make a good job of that too.
It is incredibly difficult to solve a case when you don't have a body, a crime scene or a motive.

We will never know how close this case is to being solved until an arrest has been made. The police haven't been talking about this case and they aren't about to start.