FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #3

[Myserty64]

Key in the door?

I was looking through some old files I have from message boards in the early days of Jennifer Kesse's abduction.
I came across one post that referred to Jennifer saying she had heard a key being tried in her door during the night and also a knock at the door.

Did you ever hear of this left?
I can't source it so I don't know if it was true and I can't remember seeing it reported anywhere else

 

[leftcoast]

Mystery:

Yes, I do remember that entry.
I don't know who the source was related to that entry. Thus, was it true, and if so, how did this person get the information. Don't forget, JK was only at Mosaic for two months.

If true, however, it is alarming.
I remember, somebody suggested that maybe it was somebody who was drunk. I don't buy that. I've had a few, and never went to the wrong apartment, not to mention that JK's building was supposedly mostly empty due to renovation.

anything is possible. IT is common for burglars to knock on doors, or ring door bells, before breaking into houses. This way, you know if the person is home, and if they answer, you just act as if you have the wrong apartment, are selling something, etc.

I sure would like to know who the past tenant was at JK's condo unit, and what dates they lived in the unit.

left

 

[leftcoast]

The Myth of Fingerprints

You know, throughout this case, there has been much speculation about what evidence was acquired by LE during the search of JK's car. I am not a fingerprint expert, but, do know some.

First of all, one would expect to find numerous prints throughout JK's car. From her, family, friends, and anybody who rode in her car.

Secondly, just because LE finds prints in Jk';s car, it doesn't necessarily mean the prints came from the perp. For example, it could be JK's print. For unless she was arrested, or served in the military, or bonded, her prints are most likely not on file, being a 24 year old who stayed out of trouble. Thus, one would expect to have unidentified latent prints found in the car.

Third, the lack of prints, could be telling. IF LE is unable to find any prints, it could and probably does mean the POI wiped down the car.

Fourth- Prints are not that easy to obtain, like on tv and the movies. Some surfaces are easier to obtain a print, such as glass, while others are nearly impossible. Most prints are useless, as all that shows is a partial, and most times prints get smeared due to everyday use of cars, etc.

Prints can be a great forensic weapon, especially when found on surfaces in which one knows a perp., last touched, such as a gun. But, in this case, one doesn't know if a partial or full print found in Jk's car is in fact from the perp., or just from one of JK's friends, etc.

In other words, I think prints, along with DNA, are long shots in this case. One would think if any of this forensic evidence was left at the scene, this case would be further along. There is of course the possibility of identifying a perp. later on, and being able to match a partial print to the perp. But for now, I think it is safe to say that LE is going to have to find the suspect first, versus relying on forensics to i.d. the suspect. JMO

left

 

[UK Sleuth]

Interesting one on the fingerprints, goes back to why is the car a crime scene doesnt it?

Like you say unidentified fingerprints could be JK or an innocent person who has previously been in the car.

With regard to psychics I wasn't saying I am a believer I'm on the fence with that one so i am not a disbeliever shall we say.

I understand left's point about the plane if you say something enough you will eventually be correct.

I saw a documentary about psychics and this one guy who didnt believe it attempted to prove his point.

He did this by predicting a plane crash in a certain month, all he did was intensively research the most common months and areas for crashes and predicted something that had a higher chance of happening, he played the numbers if you like and got lucky.

I dont think its fair to dismiss psychic visions just because they dont give the full detail of name, address, what happened, perps fav colour etc.

Its not an exact science this is a remote power that some people believe they have.

I however agree that until something concrete comes from any of that sort of thing i.e someone provides enough from a vision to actually help locate someone it is best left as an 'alternative' method.

Right im of to find my bandana and crystal ball!

 

[leftcoast]

Hey UK

Yes, everybody seems to have an opinion about why the car is a crime scene. Mine is as follows:

Jk is reported missing by her parents on Tuesday, the 24th. EVentually, LE will enter her car into the computer system as a missing/endangered person.

Every cop who has gone to one day at the police academy knows, that when you locate a car of someone missing, it is treated as a "crime scene".

the usual protocol is to insure the person isn't in the car or trunk, then, without touching the car to disturb evidence, the car is towed on a flatbed to the crime lab.

That is at least my take.

I'm still confused as to why JK's condo wasn't treated as a potential crime scene. Was it LE error? or was the condo already contaminated by family who had arrrived? or was her disappearance simply not taken seriously until her car was found, and then the condo evidence was already destroyed inadvertently by family, ie, sheets, using shower, etc.

left

 

[Myserty64]

Whether the car is a crime scene or not it doesn't matter too much if there was no evidence extracted. It seems DNA is out and fingerprints wont be much use.

I wonder where Jennifer's car keys and purse were dumped. Obviously the POI had the keys when he parked the car. I thought they may have been tossed into a dumpster and I have even wondered if that's where Jennifer went too.
Remember it was at least two days before any dumpsters were checked out. The critical one could have been emptied by then.

I have just read a graphic account of an abduction of a woman who was sitting in her car. She was extremely lucky to have escaped with her life after being violently raped. Reading what the perpetrator actually said to her when he took over the car was a real eye opener and it kind of put this case into perspective.
I would like to post it here but it needs a little bit of cleaning up. I can now understand why Jennifer didn't have too many choices that morning.

 

[UK Sleuth]

If that’s the case on declaring the car a crime scene then that is a very misleading term for the general public.

It immediately conjures up visions of a struggle, disturbance or some other evidence e.g. blood, when there could be none of this at all.

Based on what we know (which is not a lot) and my gut feelings I believe that the following is what happened to JK:


She was abducted getting into her car at gunpoint by the poi who I believe to be the perp and whom acted alone.

I don’t believe there was another vehicle involved.

I think the perp forced JK to drive to his residence, perhaps straight into a garage or onto a driveway, somewhere that didn’t allow for JK to have far to go from the car to the perps residence (or some vacant residence the perp was using) therefore little or no chance to run for it.

I think the car being dumped at HOTG is geographically very relevant, I believe that the perp lives withing the vicinity of HOTG and Mosaic.

HOTG is just another complex the perp is aware of so a good place to put the car but not so far away that the perp would be driving for a long period of time.

I suspect the perp lives at a maximum 15 minutes drive from HOTG.

Is she still alive?

If so she has been held captive for 14 months, the perp must be a loner who hardly ever has visitors, if she is dead then she would either be buried in the perps garden or put in a dumpster early on as suggested by Myserty.

I don’t know why but I just don’t feel that the perp drove miles away to dispose of the body if she is dead, this all has a very local feel to it.

Just my theory of course and nothing new in the above, I would happily have it blown out the water now if she could be found.

Left/myserty do you have a definitive theory of what you believe happened?

I know we don’t know and don’t have evidence I would just like to know if you had to say what you believe based on what we know and your hunch.

 

[leftcoast]

Hey UK

I pretty much agree with your scenario. The only problem with your scenario is why was the dog able to track the POI back to Mosaic? Plus, it seems risky to take somebody, and their car, back to your own house. I am still leading toward maybe a lake, forest, etc., and then dumping the car on the way home. But, you may be right.

Another scenario which would exlain quite a bit, is that of a fellow tenant.

In this scenario, the tenant could easily hide Jk in his condo, then use her car to dispose of evidence, and to mislead LE by placing the car at a known drug complex.

regardless of the scenario's, they are all pretty much in the same ballpark.

When crimes like these occur, we have a tendency to call them "perfect crimes", which I don't believe exist.

To me, a perfect crime, is simply the combination of a well planned crime, by a criminal with experience, and mistakes made by law enforcement. Even some of the most perfect crimes, eventually, LE will figure them out, and the majority of the time, the suspect's were sitting in front of their faces the entire time.

I understand why the KEsse's are sticking with LE, and why they don't want to burn that bridge.

But, one has to wonder why Orlando PD would assign this case to two detectives who are months away from retirement.

Also, why not do your own investigation, and confirm that the evidence we have is correct.

Why not have a town meeting, or some type of think tank with detectives, family, residents, etc. and throw out various ideas. What in the world do they have to lose at this point?

A huge part of me thinks nothing is happening in this case. That detectives are simply waiting for a huge break, or the dreaded find that none of us wants to even think about. I hope this is not true.

Part of me, the pessimistic part that is, wonders if the ORlando tourism board would just assume this case would go away. We wouldn't want this case to affect tourism, now would we.

left

 

[Myserty64]

This case is cold and has most likely now joined the thousands of other cold and unsolved cases gathering dust.

Hopefully someday Jennifer will be found even if it is by accident.

Possibly years down the track someone will ring a tip line and declare they knew what happened and who did it all along. It has happened before.

There are several pieces of information that have never been aired in public but while interesting and even intriguing they are not going to solve the case by themselves.
It does however make me wonder what other clues are being held back.
Still, the case remains unsolved and that means whatever is being kept close to the chest isn't enough.

 

[drumstick]

Thank you for all of your theory discussion about Jennifer's kidnapping.
I'm curious about something ...

If you were the lead investigator on this case, what would you do first to solve it?

thanks~

If you or someone you know has any information about the disappearance
of Jennifer Kesse from Orlando, FL, January 24, 2006, please call the tip line at 1-407-772-2162 or 1-800-423-8744

 

[leftcoast]

Hi Drumstick

First, re-assign case to cold squad

Then, have somebody independently re-test height of POI. http://www.wftv.com/video/6885628/detail.html. I'm still not convinced the methods shown in this video are accurate, nor the best. However, it is just my opinion. Regardless, this is a crucial part of the investigation, and deserves another look, given the importance. As you know, I feel the POI is much taller than 5"5, and most likely 5"10-6"2.

Give lie detectors and ask for alibi's for everyone close to JK, her family, friends, neighbors, management and security at Mosaic. No exceptions.

Have family, friends, all make list of any guy who either wanted to date JK, has dated JK, or gave her the creeps.

left

 

[Myserty64]

Leftcoast is right about handing the case over to the cold case squad.
Also restarting the investigation from the family members and working out from there is another good idea from left.

Perhaps the investigators could let a little more information out for us out in the general public could mull over. Goodness knows, it is over a year since anything new came out.

In the finish it's what the police have to work on that will decide the outcome of this case. If they don't have much more than we know of then I can't see this case being solved, ever.

What concerns me is the police stated when the POI pictures were released it was the biggest break they had had in the case. If true that is a real worry as the POI photos aren't much better than useless.

I'm going to have let go of this case soon or I'll be open to accusations of having an obsessive-compulsive disorder.

 

[leftcoast]

Mystery:

Following something to the end is not obsessive-compulsive disorder.

A long shot in this case:

You know, I was watching AMW this evening, and they had a very interesting case. It was about an armored car heist, in which a driver was killed. Turns out, police found the getaway car and were able to save the scent from the driver's seat, and store the scent for later use. 3 Years later, when police had a suspect, LE was able to retreive the scent from storage, have a canine sniff the scent, and verify they had the right guy.

Now to the JK case. Why can't LE do the same in this case? WAs the scent from the POI saved? and if so, can LE bring in potential suspects, take samples of their scent, and have a police dog verify if he is the correct suspect. It is a long shot, but, definitely something to consider.

That is why part of me is very skeptical when the story was told that the Kesse's sold JK's car. I really can't believe that LE would allow that car to leave the evidence lot until the case is solved. For example, in the Jimmy Hoffa case, I know the FBI still has that car Hoffa was last driving in evidence, 30 years later.

I know this may seem way out, but, if the dog handler was certain that the canine picked up the correct scent after JK's car was parked, I really think this technology could work.

left

 

[Myserty64]

I didn't know about saving scent and I'm quite amazed it can be done. I too wonder if they saved scent from Jennifer's car.

Whilst thinking about scent I think it might be worth re-examining what Bo the bloodhound did within an hour of her car being found.
I assume the trail went straight down Americana and Conroy which at a brisk walking pace would see the POI back at Mosaic in about 15 minutes or about 16 minutes past midday

What did the POI do once he got there?
It appears nobody saw him at the time of the abduction so are we to assume nobody saw him on his return?
When we consider it appears nobody saw him at Huntington or noticed him walking down a busy road we have to conclude this guy has a lot of luck.

And what did Bo do when he was back at Mosaic? Did he just stop where the scent stopped?
How does a scent just stop unless it comes to a river? Can scent stop where the POI's car was parked? That is if the POI drove off.

Should we try to build a case from here. It's early in the case with the car being discovered only an hour ago.

This is how the bloodhound's efforts were reported in the Orlando Sentinel:

The mystery of her disappearance deepened within an hour of the car's recovery at 8:10 a.m. not far from Kesse residence. Orange County sheriff's bloodhound Bo took a sniff of the driver's seat and pulled handler Sgt. Jeff Brown at a loping pace for a mile.

The scent led straight to the front door of Kesse's home in Mosaic at Millenia, an upscale, gated and fenced condominium complex with 24-hour security on Americana Boulevard.

The trail bypassed the complex's only entrance and led to a stretch of fence separating the public sidewalk from its private grounds. Once the 6-year-old bloodhound entered the grounds, the dog picked up the scent inside the fence and went directly to a staircase leading to Kesse's second-floor condominium.

 

[Myserty64]

Does this indicate the car was photographed being parked at Huntington?

Homicide detectives Emmett Browning and Glenn Gause returned to the complex late this afternoon to inspect a security camera system with a view of the spot where Kesse's car had been parked. They did not say if there is film of who abandoned the car.

I think it does.

 

[Myserty64]

Maybe the police don't have many clues as we think they do and this is why the case is still a mystery. (this was little over a week after the abduction)

Calls about Jennifer Kesse's disappearance are slowing coming into CrimeLine.

The organization says it has only received about 50 calls regarding the case.

Detectives say that's an unusually low number considering the amount of publicity surrounding Kesse's disappearance.

The tipsters who are calling in don't have specific information, according to CrimeLine detectives.

 

[leftcoast]

Mystery" Good work finding those quotes

Again, not an expert in canine's, but, one would think a scent could end for a variety of reasons, ie, POI got in a car, watering of grass or some type of water which affects scent, or multiple scents of the same person, in different directions. I do know, when bloodhounds lose the scent, or are confused, they are trained to stop. Remember, the old movie " Cool hand luke" when Newman purposely runs in a circle, sprays pepper along his trail, etc. all to try and trip up the bloodhound.

In conclusion: I would trust that dog and his tracking abilities 100 times more than an eyewitness account.

left

 

[leftcoast]

UK, Mystery

UK was asking last week, how did LE know when the car was dropped.

I found the following interview which backs up most of our theories on this issue.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12756094/. In this article: STG Ring: states

"We had actually captured a time when the car was dropped at a particular apartment complex".

Well, the term capturing, would lead a reasonable person to assume this means, captured on Video. The article also states the car was dropped by someone other JK.

Police also stated there were no signs of violence in the car. Which also points to the theory that the car is a "crime scene", primarily because JK was missing, and her car was found.

Another item. WE kept hearing LE ask any who may have seen JK driving on S. John YOung Parkway between 10pm and 8am on the 24th.

Originally, I believed that LE had some type of video to back this up. I have since changed my mind.

I am convinced that this statement is only relevent because JK, according to her parents, would normally use S. John YOung Parkway as a route to get to work.

That is why the Kesse's stood at S. John Young Parkway and Conroy ("F": on the map) for three months holding a sign of their daughter and hoping for a clue.

Another thing: during the interview, the Kesse's stated that the shower was wet, towel damp, and she had work clothes spread over the bed. Makes you wonder if she was interupted after her shower, versus leaving clean, unwrinkled work clothes laying on a bed. I guess it depends on her habits, and one's interpretation of the scene.

left

 

[drumstick]

great discussion ...

I read your posts about the dog/s and I wanted to throw some thoughts into your discussion.
Like you, I am not expert on K9 training but I do have some observations
about recent cases in FL that I would like to share.

In the case of Jessica Lunsford, dogs did not find her. She was taken across the street, buried next to the trailer.
She wasn't discovered for three weeks and that was only after Couey told them where to find her.

In the Trenton Duckett case, dogs did not find him. He is still missing.

Coralrose Fuller, 2 hours away from the Duckett case, K9 dogs did not find her either.
A neighbor found her body near her house while walking his dog. The neighbor found her, not the dog.

In Jennifer's case, I have little confidence in any tracking by the dog/s.

IMO, I would dismiss any reports about the K9 in this case unless someone can show me the validity of the tracking.

thanks again ~

 

[Myserty64]

You have some interesting scenarios drumstick.

I wonder if the dogs failure rate at finding people or bodies is about the same as the police failure rate in solving cases?
Any breed of dog has a truly amazing sense of smell given the right circumstances but of course none of them are fool proof.

All I am certain of is the bloodhound headed to Mosaic. I think it would be amazing if he selected Mosaic by chance.
I respect your opinion and of course you may well be correct in doubting the dog's ability.
Anything is possible in this baffling case.