FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #3

[Myserty64]

Where is Jennifer Kesse?

For this case to go anywhere Jennifer needs to be found but where could she be?
If we assume the abduction occurred sometime near 8am and the car was dropped at noon we have a period of four hours to account for.

The first question that needs to be answered is; 'was her car used in the abduction or was it merely driven from Mosaic to Huntington?'

The next question is; 'where did the main crime take place? Was it in a secluded area or was it in a house?'

Thirdly, if this is a homicide case where is the body? Did the perpetrator drive a long way, say 30 miles or so, to hide it? Or was the crime and the disposal of the body all carried out within a 5 mile radius of Mosaic?'

This crime has the appearance of being very well planned.

 

[Myserty64]

Jennifer's car at Huntington.

Looking at photographs of her car when it was found at Huntingdon it seems there is a fair bit of mud splatter on the body behind both the front and rear wheels.
I wonder if it was fine weather when she drove to and from Fort Lauderdale?
I know when I drive my own car off road or at least off sealed roads you get that same kind of splatter on the body work. The same can happen on wet roads.

The police would have checked the tires etc for soil samples. I wonder what they found?

 

[leftcoast]

I don't know about the height of the POI. I would like to think that the FBI, who helped out with the height estimation, would know what they were doing. If we take the higher estimate of 5' 5" there are still a lot of males around of that height. In fact I have one living next door and he also looks to be strong enough doing yard work. A male of this build can still easily overpower a female; it's just the way it is.

Mystery: Glad to hear from you.

As far as the height of the POI.

Did you have time to view the video in which I was speaking about?

I was not suggesting that a male who stands 5"5 would be unable to overpower JK. What I am suggesting, is that I HOPE LE is not eliminating potential suspects, based on height alone. This, IMO, could be a critical mistake.

What I am suggesting, is that the estimate of the POI's height is difficult given the height of the camera, the distance of the POI from the gate, and the uneven plane between the gate and the POI.

As far as the FBI assisting, I have heard they assisted in certain aspects of this case. Regardless of who came up with the height estimate of the POI (which appears to come from local police, given the video) , given the importance of this estimate, and the fact it is one of only a few clues in this case, it is my opinion that the height estimate should have been independently doubled, and even tripled checked.

Regardless, I still find it hard to believe that one could get so specific in the estimate, given the above, and the fact the POI was walking, versus standing, which would make the estimate even that much more difficult.

As far as the FBI making mistakes, I have actually researched a high profile cold case from the 70's in which an FBI agent actually made a critical error in a case which went unsolved. Of course, the public thought it was a perfect crime, when in reality it was just an error in judgement by one agent. FBI agents are just like everyone else, they are human, and prone to mistakes.


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[Bobbisangel]

I don't think that LE are ever going to get anywhere with that picture of the person of interest. The picture just isn't clear enough to get any idea of what the person looks like or even what they are really wearing. Even if they get a height that they think is right there could be probably thousands of people of the same height in that city. I just think that pic is a dead end like everything else in this case.

I think if LE had anything at all they would have made progress by now. It seems that this case is cold. If someone took Jennifer for sex I doubt that she is still alive by now. Very rarely children are kept for years but not adults.
I don't think it is a stretch that the person might have taken Jennifer's body miles away and buried her. She hasn't been found yet and she wouldn't be the first person that was driven even states away and buried. It's really sad that nothing has happened in this case. Her parents have done everything that they can think of to get someone to come forward or call. I just feel so bad for them. I can't even imagine what it is like to live in their shoes day in and day out. It just seems that there is nothing to go on at all.

 

[Myserty64]

You have a valid argument leftcoast. Sometimes experts are so close to the woods they can't see the trees.
I'm not so sure this case has been handled as well as it could have been either. The investigation got off to a very slow start and I'm not sure it has ever recovered.
Also, the police call for help from the public but we the public are given nothing to work on.
My fear is that the lack of information from the police is due to the fact they have nothing to give out.

On the positive side I'm hoping that one day there will be a match to whatever forensic evidence they got from Jennifer's car. Even if that happens they need Jennifer and if she is deceased her body is needed.
It is very difficult to prosecute a homicide case without a body.

 

[leftcoast]

Well, as of today it is now 14 months since JK disappeared.

Time for Plan B.

left

 

[leftcoast]

How I would try to solve this case, if I were the Kesse's

1) Hire a P.I.. Do your homework, and make sure you get someone who is respected by cops. For example, a retired detective, fbi, etc. Some of the P.I.'s out there are shady, so , you must do your homework before selecting one.

2) re-enact the POI's walk at HOTG, and of course, test the height of POI.

3) Get an email account, from hotmail, yahoo, etc. where people can send in anonymous tips. Every fool out there knows that tip lines are recorded and traced. Let people know they can be anonymous with email tips.

4) Have a relative, family friend, P.I., etc, rent a condo at Mosaic, and have the person just watch activity of the other residents, workers, etc, and speak to residents. You really get insight when you reside at a complex, as it pertains to schedules, such as fellow residents, garbage pickup, cable installers, landscapers, traffic from visitors, etc.

5) Saturate the area around HOTG, and MOsiac with posters, reward offers, etc, include talking to mail carriers, UPS drivers, fedex drivers, pastors, and anybody who works the area on a daily basis. These people can work the same route for years, and are a good source of information.

6) Be open minded. Maybe, this crime is not what it seems. Everybody is concluding it was a sexual assualt. While that is most likely, don't have tunnel vision toward the possibility that Jk knew or saw something she wasn't suppose to.

7) Be open minded about the POI. He could either be the lone criminal. Or he could just be someone who was paid to dump the car.

8) Don't give up. This person needs to brought to justice.

9) Look back at JK's college years, and even her first years after school. Did JK have a stalker who was a boyfriend in college? Some of the stalkers can lurk for years, thinking they have a chance. A former girlfriend of mine, actually had a stalker, who of all things, was our mailman. This guy was actually going through her mail, driving down our street on his off hours, and was extremely creepy. So, don't rule out anyone.

10) I think it is unfair to totally place blame on LE in this case. This is a tough case to solve. IT appears to be well planned, and not an argument that got out of control. I still think LE made errors early on, but, they are human and the majority of cases like this one, end up with the missing person showing up.

11) Get on tv whenever possible. Most of us learned of this from Greta. Why not call her, Nancy Grace, Larry King, John Walsh, and try to get on their shows, whenever possible. Even offer more information as a crutch to get air time.

Well, that is it for now. My thoughts are with the Kesse's and Rob.

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[UK Sleuth]

I tend to agree with Mystery on this I would think that LE have a lot of information gathered on this case with statements from workers, friends etc.

I dont however believe they have a suspect as I believe and again its only my opinion that they have DNA evidence from Jks car therefore you would assume they would arrest said suspect and compare DNA.

This is where I think the problem lies, LE have lots of information and probably have a good idea of what happened but thats where it ends.

Left with regard to the height of the poi I never doubted it until you mentioned it I just found the person to be very odd looking not to mention oddly dressed.

Honestly I cant really judge from that picture the height of the poi as if LE had told me the person was 6ft I would believe it(based on the photo)

Its just a really odd photo of an odd person.

I do agree however that LE should check and counter check the estimated height, with so little to go on this must be at least in the ballpark.

I am one of those people who leans forward when they walk so appear marginally shorter, my father always use to say 'Stop looking at your shoes when you walk!' when I was a kid(think I was looking for money!)

If they have made a critical error and the poi is say 5ft 10 - 6ft then that may throw people of course, someone may suspect somebody that resembles the poi but is 6ft for instance.

It is well known that LE make fundamental errors at times, LE over here have almost been held responsible for the last few victims of the Yorkshire ripper due to catastrophic errors in judgement and lines of enquiry closed too early so I think it is right of the public to question LE.

As you say they are human and make mistakes.

What interests me is the statements made in the past by LE and the Kesse's.

Some of the statements seem to suggest the theory of an accomplice as 'its not to late to come forward before things get worse' type statments.

Perhaps LE theorise there was more than one person involved and have attempted via the media to get one to grass on the other.

Again its why do they theorise this?

I think the likes of us theorising with the lack of information in the public domain is a bit like wandering round your house in the dark when your furnitures been rearranged!

We shouldnt stop however you never know when somebody somewhere will have a eureka moment.

What would you give to see the case file?

Whatever the outcome I hope to god that poor family eventually get some closure.

 

[leftcoast]

Hi UK.

Agree with most of what you said.

One thing I disagree with you is the possibility of the POI's DNA in JK's car. From what source would this come? Apparently, there was no blood in the car, the POI looks to be wearing a hat. I wouldn't rule it out, but, I think a partial or whole print would be a better bet. Just my opinion. If LE had the POI;s DNA, I think we would have heard rumors of LE swabbing friends, ex-'s, and neighbors. I could be wrong. (another thing I would have tested in Jk's car is the radio station which was on when the car was found. Some perp. are stupid enough to tune in their favorite stations on stolen cars.)

I promise: this is the last time I will bring up the height of the POI. What concerns me is as follows: Drew Kesse was quoted as saying, " at least we know the POI is 5:3-5'5, and hence we can target people of that height, and not look at taller people. That concerns me.

Also, my theory about the illegial alien is as follows: Le originally gets a look at the POI and thinks he has a "funky" hairdo, which appears to be dark hair (the rest of us believe the POI is wearing a hat or helmet, etc.). Then, LE gets a height est. of 5"3-5"5, which is extremely short for the US. Plus, put in the neighborhood where the car is found, maybe, the POI is an alien. That is at least my take. I could be wrong.

UK, you mentioned about the KEsse's statements to the POI, about coming forward before it is too late, and getting caught up in something. True, it does make one think LE or the KEsse's believe the POI is an accomplice. However, many times, such statements are prepared by police in an attempt to make criminals think LE knows more than they do, or to throw a bone to the POI and make him think that everyone thinks he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, just my opinion.

I hope we are all wrong and the police are tracking the perp. and ready to make an arrest. If not, I think it is time to re-assign this case to the cold squad unit. I think, two detectives, working full time on this case, could crack this case in less than two months. I really believe that. I think something has been overlooked, or an error has been made along the way.

left

uk, mystery, keep up the good ideas. Let's nail this s.o.b.

 

[UK Sleuth]

In total agreement with all of that.

When I said DNA perhaps I was being a bit specific, I meant some evidence to link somebody so DNA or fingerprint/fibres.

Keep Sleuthing folks.

 

[Myserty64]

I hope I'm wrong too but I don't think an arrest is imminent. The months just keep on slipping by and nothing happens.
I have been perplexed by the lack of media coverage in Orlando this case has had. I can only check online sources but there has been practically no coverage for months.
There was a flurry of activity on the first anniversary but now the coverage has faded away.

I'm no expert in DNA but I believe a strand of hair (with the root) or a flake of skin is sufficient to extract DNA. Since we are shedding hair and skin all the time you would think something came from the car.

If in fact there are photographs of the POI parking the car I wonder if there is evidence of him wiping the car clean? Or did he wear gloves?
Did he drive with his beret/head wear on?
If he didn't wear gloves there must have been some finger prints?

This crime is very clean which indicates it was planned rather than a crime of opportunity. Or did the perpetrator just get lucky like he was with the posts in the photos?

As I have written previously the best chance for a break through is getting a match in a data base with whatever evidence they have from the car.

 

[UK Sleuth]

The only real clues to go on are the car and the poi picture.

Lets give LE their due, for whatever reason the poi is linked, it seems fairly clear to me that they believe the poi dumped the car.

Everything else is hearsay and theory although I am making an assumption that the poi dumped the car.

We dont know what time JK was abducted, where and by whom.

Most people feel that this was a planned abduction, if so the car is frustrating to me.

If you were to plan an abduction I would think that you would plan to take the person in your vehicle not theirs.

Your vehicle being stolen or fake plates so you cant be tied back to the crime from your registered vehicle.

You wouldnt plan to take someone in their own car as you would then have a disposal issue of having to get rid of the car thus exposing you to CCTV as has happened and the possibility of evidence to link you to the crime such as prints, fibres, hair, etc.

In the same vein it has been suggested the car was moved to throw LE off the scent, again why would you do this if it was planned, you are exposing yourself to the same things.

A planned abduction would be grab the person, put them into your vehicle and go, what evidence do you leave?

You could argue that this case strangely has more to go on than other dissapearances, trouble is we cant connect the dots.

Im starting more and more to wonder if this was a planned abduction that went a bit wrong, perhaps JK got into her car before the abduction could take place but it went ahead at gun point in her car.

If it were planned the rest of the plan wouldnt change your just left with the problem of the car and not your own car which you could clean of any evidence.

I think the person/s whom did this have got incredibly lucky with that picture because quite frankly you would barely recognise your best friend in a still like that.

Again its more theory but I have a hunch if planned it didnt go quite to the plan.

 

[Myserty64]

Due to UK Sleuth I got interested in the Suzy Lamplugh case in England.
In this case there is no body and very little evidence but it seems fairly obvious who did it.
The suspect is already in jail for another murder but he isn't in any hurry to admit to the Lamplugh one.
The police don't have enough to charge him either so it's likely the case will remain unsolved.
The case above shows just how difficult it can be to get a homicide case to court.
Sadly I believe it will be the same in the Jennifer Kesse case.

Whatever the risk, by moving her car, the POI got himself two days leeway or get away time.
I tend to believe the crime scene is most likely in another vehicle or at least she was transported in another vehicle.

I have seen theories where she was abducted by someone she knew and her car was actually dropped at Huntington by someone the perpetrator knew. This means the POI thought he was leaving the car there as a favor and is not involved in the abduction.
The problem here is why hasn't the POI come forward?

I'm not sure if UK knows this but in the early stage of the investigation the lead detective remarked that 'this is as close to a vanishing as he has seen.'
Maybe that explains why this case is where it is today.
The police are very good at what they do but they are not magicians. They have to have something to work with.

 

[UK Sleuth]

Glad you looked into it.

That case was so huge over here, its weird when so many people vanish but there seem to be particular cases which stand out in the memory and are given greater media coverage than others.

I see a similar scenario in the JK case although its has been 14 months versus 21 years in the Lamplugh case.

I dont think they even had a suspect after 14 months in the Lamplugh case but they have got to a point in time where they are pretty convinced she was murdered, who did it and an idea of where she is buried.

This hasnt brought closure to the Lamplugh family im sure but some sort of acceptance of her fate and where she may reside.

I hope in the future that JK is found for the Kesse's sake or they get some sort of idea of what happened at the minute they just havent got a clue of where, when or whom was involved.

 

[leftcoast]

Another thought about moving JK's car:

there have been other criminals, like BTK, and INman, who haved parked their cars a few miles from the crime scene, used the victims car to retreive their own personal car, and then driven away. This, of course, eliminates the possibility of a witness seeing a strange car, and potentially writing down the license plate number. For example in BTK case, he was driving a company van, which may have played a role in his decision. In those cases, the victims were found at their own houses, whereas in this case, JK's whereabouts are unknown. One has to wonder if the advancements in DNA has anything to do with this.

Another possibility is as follows: If the perp. in this case resides in JK's complex, you could see where moving JK's car to another location would take some of the heat off of Mosaic. It would also give the perp. a few days to hide evidence.

I would love to know the exact route the police dog took, once it sniffed Jk''s car and supposedly took the handler back to Mosaic, using the back roads, or so it is told.

For example, is that route, popular with joggers, bicycle riders? or is that area infested with homeless? How would someone from another area, know about this route, and remember this route, at such a stressful time. And supposedly jump a fence, in order to gain access to Mosaic.

If true, why did the POI want to avoid the front gate and the main street?

I really think the route the police dog took is a huge clue.

Part of me is still very suspicious of the timing between when the Kesse's contacted Mosaic management to report JK missing (around 11:15am), and the time that JK's car was dumped (45 minutes later, or noon). Is this just a coincidence, or did the POI know the heat was on?

If I could interview one person about this case, I would love to talk the manager of the MOsaic. These managers know everything about residents, habits, employess, etc. They also know about former residents, contractors, transients living nearby, trouble tenants, etc. I just can't believe nobody has provided that essential clue.

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[Myserty64]

I used to wonder why people just vanish too and I have read some truly shocking cases on this subject.
I finally realised there are predators out there and they are on the prowl looking for an opportunity. Most of them just drive around until they see someone who matches their evil fantasy.
In it can be a school kid waiting for a bus or a young lady waiting with her car that has broken down. It can be someone walking along a deserted road late at night or in the early hours of the morning.
Sometimes it can be a person just walking to their car in a mall parking lot.
If a person's path crosses that of a predator then that person is in grave danger.

This what I believe happened with Jennifer Kesse. She could have been seen on her balcony or observed leaving for work or even noticed by a worker at Mosaic. Her path crossed that of a predator who was on the hunt for prey.
We have been told Jennifer was safety conscious and even made safe calls when walking across a deserted parking lot or had workmen in her condo.
She must have been taken completely by surprise and with great speed. It must have been like that because she left for work between 7 and 8am which is in daylight with others leaving for work also.
Despite all of this nobody saw a thing.

 

[Myserty64]

DNA

I don't know too much about extracting DNA but I understand it can be taken from a strand of hair (with the root) or a skin cell.
We are continually shedding hair and skin so there must have been some of the POI's skin or hair in the car.
I wonder if the POI wore gloves? Also, did he wear his beret or whatever he has on while driving?

If the POI didn't wear gloves there must have been prints in the car.

If there are photos of the POI parking the car was he shown to be wiping the car down to get rid of the prints?

There just has to be some evidence.

I'd crawl over broken glass to see the police file on this case.

 

[UK Sleuth]

Left thats an excellent point about the timing of JK going missing phone call and the car being dumped.

Thats is very coincidental isnt it?

I think most of the pointers in this case go to somebody very local who knows the area intimately.

Im still convinced that wherever she was taken was not very far away at all.

 

[leftcoast]

thanks UK

Yes, the timing of JK's parents calling around, and boom, JK's car is parked within 30 minutes is very suspicious. Then, we find out the POI supposedly walks back to Mosaic. If I were the detective on this case, I sure would want to know what people were told in the first half hour that JK was missing. Sure, it could be a coincidence. But, it is worth checking out.

Either way, I agree with you that JK was not taken far.
That the perp. is from that area, knows it well.
And the manner in which the car is parked. Definitely someone who has a driver's license. That car was parked perfectly in that space.

Another thing: people have suggested the POI was innocent, and just doing a favor dumping a car. If so, why did he take the backroads to Mosaic, and why didn't he come forward? Because, in my mind, the POI is the perp., and he acted alone.

If you look at the majority of cases, at least 90% of the cases are ones in which the perp. acted alone.

I still argue if the POI was just an accomplice, they would have taken JK's car to the other side of town and burned it. IMO in this case, he couldn't because he needed the car parked close to Mosaic in order to either get back home, or to his vehicle, or to his job at Mosaic.

left

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[UK Sleuth]

More good points I think you should take on the case left(and im not joking!)

I was just looking on findjenniferkesse.com and HOTG is marked with a B and another location with an F.

Is the F where JK lived?(I couldnt see it saying Mosaic on the map)

Maybe I am missing something?