FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #4

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  • #401
Thank you so very, very much. Very interesting. My hubby's comment while watching the video is that perhaps Law Enforcement should have chosen a point on the gate such as the upper horizontal cross bar of the gate to use with the model to determine height. A stationary object such as a particular point on the gate would be a good marker for comparison.

In the video notice how much lower the top of the model's head is compared to the upper horizontal cross bar on the gate. Look again at the photos of the suspect at the gate and where the top of his head is at for comparison. Keep in mind that the angle of the camera would have made the suspect appear shorter, not taller. Hubby and I think that there is too much room for error in the method that Law Enforcement used for determining the height of the suspect as shown in this video.

We still believe that the suspect is taller than the estimate of height given by Law Enforcement.

Just our opinion only

Your welcome

I have been arguing with some on this board about this very point for months.

In my opinion, the female office is much shorter than the POI.

I believe the POI is closer to the height of the male officer, possibly a shade shorter.

As such, I used an estimate of between 5"8-6"0. My gut tells me the POI is average height.

left
 
  • #402
I don't know. I looked at it twice and didn't see what they were aiming at.

I agree with catLynette that the angle doesn't look steep enough to be from the roof camera that Greta's Fox picture shows, and a lower angle would make for a different height, but that's what the Fox picture caption said.

So like the videos, clear as mud.

rd


NO, I think the picture of the POI came from the camera just under the peak of the roof. From the picture, you can tell there is a sharp angle downward toward the POI. Don't forget, there is also about 30 feet between the POI and the camera.

left
 
  • #403
My hubby's comment while watching the video is that perhaps Law Enforcement should have chosen a point on the gate such as the upper horizontal cross bar of the gate to use with the model to determine height. A stationary object such as a particular point on the gate would be a good marker for comparison.

In the video notice how much lower the top of the model's head is compared to the upper horizontal cross bar on the gate. Look again at the photos of the suspect at the gate and where the top of his head is at for comparison. Keep in mind that the angle of the camera would have made the suspect appear shorter, not taller. Hubby and I think that there is too much room for error in the method that Law Enforcement used for determining the height of the suspect as shown in this video.

We still believe that the suspect is taller than the estimate of height given by Law Enforcement.

Just our opinion only

I agree with you and hubby. I don't know why they used the method they did, but it appears to be wrong. They desperately need to do as Left suggested and get a surveyor out or someone to recheck their estimate. It is a critical part of the case and it needs to be accurate.
 
  • #404
  • #405
http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,817,00.html#9_0

The picture at the above link shows Jennifer's work clothes laying across the chair next to the bed. Didn't Jennifer's mom say she was pretty certain that Jennifer dressed for work that morning?

After looking at the above picture, Jennifer never dressed for work on Monday right?

Did she in fact disappear that night before going to bed? She didn't call her boyfriend the morning she disappeared and that was out of character for her too.
Is there any proof of the date that her brother's friend's phone was mailed?


I'm confused by your question

The clothes over the chair in that picture are the clothes that JK wore to work on Monday.

Jk's mom believes that JK awoke, dressed, and locked the door, and from there on is a mystery. I don't understand your question.

Correct, Jk never called Rob on that Tuesday morning. But, some people say Jk would call from home, while other's say Jk would call from her car. NObody is certain. So, since JK;s last conversation on her cellphone was at 10pm on Monday night, the Police are using 10pm monday night-9am Tuesday morning as the time that JK disappeared.

Apparently, the brother's friend never received his cellphone.

left
 
  • #406
http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/0,4644,817,00.html#9_0

The picture at the above link shows Jennifer's work clothes laying across the chair next to the bed. Didn't Jennifer's mom say she was pretty certain that Jennifer dressed for work that morning?

After looking at the above picture, Jennifer never dressed for work on Monday right?

Did she in fact disappear that night before going to bed? She didn't call her boyfriend the morning she disappeared and that was out of character for her too.
Is there any proof of the date that her brother's friend's phone was mailed?


Jennifer wore the work clothes on Monday and when she returned home she folded them over the chair. Jennifer most likely was abducted on Tuesday morning.

The friend's cell phone obviously was never mailed.

Just my opinion
 
  • #407
Leftcoast,
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you. lol
I thought that the clothes over the chair were laid out for Jennifer to wear the next day.
Again, sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for the explanation about the phone call.
 
  • #408
Jennifer wore the work clothes on Monday and when she returned home she folded them over the chair. Jennifer most likely was abducted on Tuesday morning.

The friend's cell phone obviously was never mailed.

Just my opinion


CatLynette,
Thanks so much for the reply and explanation.
 
  • #409
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you. lol
I thought that the clothes over the chair were laid out for Jennifer to wear the next day.

Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks for the explanation about JK and the phone call.

No problem.

left
 
  • #410
  • #411
Very convincing arguments from cat and all for an average male height, I must say.

From the news video, it looks like they are aiming the rope down the road instead of over the fence and up to the camera. They were faking the location of the camera with a ladder truck or something? The actual gate between hedges and the building with camera beyond appears to be to their right.

I certainly agree model barely comes above the bottom of the sign on the gate, looking straight across. But looking at Fox link from Myserty, Greta's picture 6, it appears to me the person would be at least 10 feet away from the fence walking down the parking lot drive.

It does appear to me that an angle from the roof as they had in the news video would come down through the fence around the crossbars to a point out there about halfway up the fence. Very rough, but the distance out in the road is significant.

You'd never tell that from the POI picture. It looks much closer between them to me than 10 feet between POI and fence, but it's just a perspective thing.

The 5'4" looks roughly accurate to me. The person would have to be a lot closer to the fence to be 5'10", in my opinion, or the angle shallower than they showed in the news video (equivalent to up to the roof).

rd
 
  • #412
The smart criminals do leave false clues, such as cig. butts when they don't smoke, empty water bottles of strangers, etc. I believe this guy is smart, but also extremely lucky.

Considering this POI has vanished, I wouldn't put anything past him or her. He hasn't vanished. He is right under their noses every day and so far thinks he is untouchable. He should think that because they are looking for the wrong person.

However, one does to wonder how it is he or she picked to park a car where security cameras are located. Maybe a last minute change? I don't think he knew until after he parked the car he had made a possibly significant error. He parked against a building with no windows, easy access out, and it makes me think it was planned beforehand.

Shoe size is not always a determinant of height. I know a guy 5"6 who wears the same size shoe as his brother who is 6"2. That is only one of out how many tho? Shoe size in my family runs accordingly. The 6' 2" son of mine wears a 13 and so does his tall uncle.

SMart criminals learn every time they get arrested, and they know to leave false clues to give reasonable doubt during the trial. This suspect hasn't been arrested before because they don't have a match to DNA or prints.

I don't think JK vanishing without a trace is by accident. Whomever did this crime, is experienced, intelligent, and in my opinion planned the crime. I totally agree. It was a well thought out plan with the exception of the car.

So, even wearing a disguise during the crime, or while dumping the car, would not be something that would terribly surprise me. With her having already been discovered missing (I don't think he counted on the swiftness of her parents to move in and start the process early that day), his timeline was now limited and his plan changed. A disguise doesn't seem very likely. I think he is so narcissistic...he would not imagine himself getting caught...so why wear one? It would then propose the problem of getting rid of a disguise which could turn up in the investigation at some point. He was better off being recognized as himself anyway...if he lived nearby.

Wearing shoes that are too big could be a possibility. Until we catch this person , we wont' know. Another thought is bicycle shoes. They always seem like bozo shoes. The shoes I linked to before that Chefs sometimes wear are Bike shoes. They are flexible, non-skid soles, and comfy. I am telling you, this guy was dressed to walk into work and begin his shift upon arrival...so he was already running behind his schedule.


left

I think we are closer than LE is tho.

To summarize what LE has: Vanished female. Vague timeline. Subject is Male or Female. Oriental or Hispanic. 5''3"-5'5". Possible DNA &/or prints that do not match any known perp. Subject photographed poorly in and around car then walking away. Car not driven far. Possible gym bag. Possible landline phone evidence. Dog tracked back from car to Condo. No crime scene. No witnesses. No solid leads.

Am I missing something?
 
  • #413
Very convincing arguments from cat and all for an average male height, I must say.

From the news video, it looks like they are aiming the rope down the road instead of over the fence and up to the camera. They were faking the location of the camera with a ladder truck or something? The actual gate between hedges and the building with camera beyond appears to be to their right.

I certainly agree model barely comes above the bottom of the sign on the gate, looking straight across. But looking at Fox link from Myserty, Greta's picture 6, it appears to me the person would be at least 10 feet away from the fence walking down the parking lot drive.

It does appear to me that an angle from the roof as they had in the news video would come down through the fence around the crossbars to a point out there about halfway up the fence. Very rough, but the distance out in the road is significant.

You'd never tell that from the POI picture. It looks much closer between them to me than 10 feet between POI and fence, but it's just a perspective thing.

The 5'4" looks roughly accurate to me. The person would have to be a lot closer to the fence to be 5'10", in my opinion, or the angle shallower than they showed in the news video (equivalent to up to the roof).

rd

You are right, it is a very, very difficult estimate related to the height.

the distance of the POI from the curb is critical.

The further away from the curb, the taller the POI will appear. The closer, the shorter the person will appear.

Hence, LE should have done the following:

Officers, cadets, citizens, etc. with heights of 5"2. 5"6, 5"10, 6'2 should have walked the entire route of the POI, in the same path, and past the gate and photographed by the gate camera.

Comparing these photos and the POI photo, I believe it will be obvious if the initial estimate of 5'4 is accurate. Rather simple, little cost.

It is possible, that there is very little distinction between the heights because of the sharp angle of the camera. Regardless, a determination will be made, one way or another.

I don't believe this experiment was ever done.

Also, in the third photo of the pOI, he is standing close to the palm tree. LE could have used this tree as a landmark, and estimated height in comparison with the tree. The same models should have stood in the same spot.

In addition, a Professional Surveyor should have been hired re-assigned from the traffic or city works to help in the measurement. these people are excellent, and do this for a living.

Using the models (lineup) would also assist in trying to identify whether the POI was wearing a hat, helmet, or just a full head of hair.

the experiments should have been done at the same time the POI was walking past the camera.

Another option would have been to hire a mathematician who may have been able to figure it out with simple math.

Regardless, since this measurement is so very important, I hope LE is open to checking the initial measurement.

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  • #414
Rd

I think the POI is about 3 feet away from the curb, and the curb is about 6 feet from the gate.

However, I am relying on memory.

But, about 9 feet appears correct.

One would have to re-measure to be absolute.

I believe the fence is about 6"10

left
 
  • #415
Sounds to me like they aren't going to back down from their analysis on height. I agree with everything you said. Maybe the Kesse family should hire the surveyor and professional photographer to recreate these so LE will have to listen. I don't see it happening any other way. The FBI and LE together made the determination and won't publically admit they were wrong.
 
  • #416
Hey, Drumstick?! Are you reading and getting all of this?! Please take these ideas and theories to the Kesse family or ask them to join us here. We are all on the same team! We want Jennifer home, too!
 
  • #417
I agree. Lots of good questions that need good answers to help find Jennifer.

rd
 
  • #418
By the way, WSers! Do we have any kind of majority agreement on different points yet? If we were doing the investigation, we would have to reach certain conclusions together. Can we list those? Have we narrowed anything down to a probability or are we still just as scattered as when this case first started?

I know Left tries to keep track. It would be interesting to see what common threads we do have. I am beginning to see a light at the end of the tunnel, in my opinion. Could we start a thread of this nature? Only listing points instead of discussing them there to find the common links?
 
  • #419
rd

ARe you stating you agree with the estimate of 5"4?

My point is this. IF that POI was my brother, my father, my best friend, I believe I could recognize him. The KEsse's also believe this, and have stated such. Do you disagree with this?

left

Whenever there is a surveillance photo, security camera, etc asking for identification of somebody, I always think "if it were my brother in that image, would I be able to recognize him?" I know my brother better than anybody else so I'm usually pretty confident. However, I don't think I would be able to recognize even him if he was the person walking by the gate in that photo. Everyone says they should be able to recognize, but really how? By what? We dont even know if it's a male of female. We don't even know for sure about the height. No color really hurts as well. If only there wee color we would know instantly so much more.

I think it's really like trying to find a needle in the haystick. Perhaps I'm wrong and some people would recognize that person if they knew them. However when you really look at it and think, it's not so easy, nobody even knows the gender of this person. It's easy to say hypothetically you would know who it was if you knew that person. The only thing that the FBI and Orlando PD evidently "knows" is that the person is between 5'3"-5'5" well the clever folks here have already debunked that theory. I'm now undecided on the height. Leftcoast I know you were never really sold on the suspect's height. Another thing is even if somebody does recognize whoever that is, it's probably somebody very close...a family member who would never turn their own in.

The video/picture is no good, it's not much of a clue at all. It just tells us that yes something happened to Jennifer Kesse, she did not voluntarily disappear and somebody else last drove her car. It also gives us the time the car was dropped off. Better than nothing but not much.

CatLynnette has been quite the addition to our group here! Welcome!
 
  • #420
By the way, WSers! Do we have any kind of majority agreement on different points yet? If we were doing the investigation, we would have to reach certain conclusions together. Can we list those? Have we narrowed anything down to a probability or are we still just as scattered as when this case first started?

I know Left tries to keep track. It would be interesting to see what common threads we do have. I am beginning to see a light at the end of the tunnel, in my opinion. Could we start a thread of this nature? Only listing points instead of discussing them there to find the common links?


I think most of us agree that JK did not leave her home after talking to Rob that night, at least not voluntarily. She has very tired, understandably, after driving straight from vacation to work. The usual was to call her boyfriend before bedtime which she did. And Rob reported she was in bed. I can't think of any logical reason as to why she would've voluntarily left home.
 
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