FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #4

[Enrique Sparta]

LE said, he had his arm behind his back, carrying something. There is an object there. Please describe what you do see. Under his right arm I believe is the shipping envelope with the cell phone in it. What do you believe the extra creases/wires, or whatever down at the knee are?

I've always felt that the suspect is carrying something in the right arm and it's up against the body. I've never noticed anything behind the back. I've always felt what they're carrying is the package with the brother's friend's cell phone. I've never been able to come up with anything though, just guessing. But i'm almost positive the suspect is carrying something on the right side.

I know you can do some interesting things with the photos Beyond Belief, can you show us some more?

by the way "straight to voice mail" means there were no rings, just call and straight to voice mail, no silent, no vibrate, no ringing on the other end, just her voice mail, phone was turned off.

 

[Enrique Sparta]

I changed some of the settings on this poi pix which I know they really don't want us to do, but after now looking at this photos with the massive discussion we had a year ago, fresh eyes are welcome. They, the le, claimed he had his arms behind him as in the first poi photo. well, whatever. here's the photo darkened.
http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d179/Kafthy/?action=view&current=kessedarkened.jpg

that's some nice work there Beyond Belief!

 

[UK Sleuth]

It has just taken me an hour to read the weekends posts.

Good work people.

If that is the friends phone that the suspect is carrying would JK not have made out the shipping details upon arriving at wherever she was going to ship it from?

I'm confused on this point.

Perhaps she had a stash of envelopes at home and labelled it however never actually made it to wherever she was going to ship it, a inventory of her belongings woud answer that.

If it were fedex though surely it would go in one of there envelopes?

Perhaps one of you guys can explain it may work differently in US to UK?

 

[Enrique Sparta]

I think we are closer than LE is tho.

To summarize what LE has: Vanished female. Vague timeline. Subject is Male or Female. Oriental or Hispanic. 5''3"-5'5". Possible DNA &/or prints that do not match any known perp. Subject photographed poorly in and around car then walking away. Car not driven far. Possible gym bag. Possible landline phone evidence. Dog tracked back from car to Condo. No crime scene. No witnesses. No solid leads.

Am I missing something?

I don't recall law enforcement or anybody officially saying they suspected Oriental or Hispanic. I may have missed it though.

Also I don't remember any talk of a gym bag although I wouldn't be surprised if that was something very early on in the case.

 

[CatLynnette]

QUOTE leftcoast

<snip>
You are right, it is a very, very difficult estimate related to the height.

the distance of the POI from the curb is critical.

<snip>
Hence, LE should have done the following:

Officers, cadets, citizens, etc. with heights of 5"2. 5"6, 5"10, 6'2 should have walked the entire route of the POI, in the same path, and past the gate and photographed by the gate camera.

Comparing these photos and the POI photo, I believe it will be obvious if the initial estimate of 5'4 is accurate. Rather simple, little cost.

<snip>
Also, in the third photo of the pOI, he is standing close to the palm tree. LE could have used this tree as a landmark, and estimated height in comparison with the tree. The same models should have stood in the same spot.

<snip>
the experiments should have been done at the same time the POI was walking past the camera.

Regardless, since this measurement is so very important, I hope LE is open to checking the initial measurement.

left



left, you have spelled out some excellent points.

I agree that the estimated height should be very close to being accurate since Law Enforcement put this kind of information out there to the public. If inaccurate then there is the risk of the actual suspect being eliminated as a possibility because he is a few inches taller than the estimated height given by Law Enforcement, which would be a travesty.

I agree that the measurement of the distance from the curb is crucial.

I also agree that the same time of day could be important, which would be around noon time.

A fixed stationary object should have been used for comparison of the Law Enforcement model with the surveillance film photos of the suspect. The palm tree blows in the wind and therefore is not a reliable stationary object to be used for comparison. This is why my husband and I agree that the two upper horizontal bars on the gate, since they are fixed and stationary, would be good to use for comparison photos between the model and the suspect.


I believe that Law Enforcement made more work for themselves that day than what was necessary. The measurements with their model that day was way too complicated which gave too much margin for error, when there was an easier and more accurate way that this could have been done.

As left stated above, wouldn't it have been much easier and accurate if Law Enforcement had placed their models of different heights in the same position on the pavement as where the security camera caught the images of the suspect and then watched the security camera footage to see which of their models matched up with the suspect against the gate for comparison? This would be easily done without using a flimsy rope and a tilting board, which Law Enforcement used that day.


Video with method of measuring the Law Enforcement model:
http://www.wftv.com/video/6885628/detail.html

Suspect photos:
http://jenniferkesse.com/person-of-interest.htm

 

[Beyond Belief]

I believe some experiments should be done at high noon to see what type of reflections appear on a car. Now that we have a still with the subject directly behind the vehicle it should be explored to see if his reflection is on the back window.:banghead:
I want this guys face and I want him caught.

 

[petra]

Great discussion folks.
Have followed from beginning and written many long posts that just go poof......so keeping this short:doh:

BB-also am having problems with pm-ing, so wanted to alert you to your last photo link --good job by the way--it includes personal pics that you may not be aware of.

 

[petra]

:clap: yea--my post actually went thru.

Was any info or description of JKs purse released ? Did she have on any jewelery--perhaps someone received some as a gift or found in dumpster ?

Also, any info on her suitcase from recent trip--was it found at home, packed or unpacked?

Typing fast and short, don't want to lose this again!

Thanks

 

[UK Sleuth]

Most of us on here seem to be of the opinion that this was someone who knew or had at least watched Jennifer.

Being as she had only lived at mosaic for 2 months if this is the case then this person has developed a fixation pretty fast and would you think initally seen her more than once, two or three occasions to develop a fixation perhaps.

Its one thing to see an attractive blonde walk past your window however I think a fixation would take more than one occasion to develop.

I think to get to some kind of answer here there needs to be some heavy research into Jennifers life during that short period.

Find out during that time the following:

Who did she work with?
Who worked at or for mosaic?
Who worked at the construction site next door?
Where did she eat?
Where did she get coffee?
Who did she order a pizza from?
What shops did she go to?
What petrol station did she use?
Did she have business meetings with anyone?
Did a client come into her offices and notice her?

I would try and build up a diary of what Jennifer did and where she went for the 8 weeks or so she lived there.

You could use her diary, work schedule/outlook calendar, bank statement, credit cards, peoples statements, the boyfriend, her parents.

Of course you wouldnt be able to account for every second or even every day but you could build a reasonably good picture of Jennifers life for that period.

This would be a job for a PI or more likely Jennifers parents, brother or boyfriend.

You tend to find in these situations no matter how calculated the perp is they make mistakes and it tend then to be mistakes made be LE that compound the problem and make things worse.

Its a bit like aeroplane crashes, very rarely does a single problem cause the crash but a combination of a technical fault along with pilot error results in the plane actually going down, sometimes the mistakes are three and fourfold.

This idea is all based of course on the perp encountering Jk during her time at mosaic and not prior to that but you have to have a start point of any theory.

This idea dawned on me when I was looking back a few months on my Outlook calendar, it is easier of course because I know what I did however i think using all possible resources you could build a reasonable picture of the places JK frequented and when.

PS Leftcoast has your theory been debunked yet? Im dying to hear it.

 

[CatLynnette]

:clap: yea--my post actually went thru.

Was any info or description of JKs purse released ? Did she have on any jewelery--perhaps someone received some as a gift or found in dumpster ?

Also, any info on her suitcase from recent trip--was it found at home, packed or unpacked?

Typing fast and short, don't want to lose this again!

Thanks

I don't believe that Law Enforcement gave a description of Jennifer's purse. Also, I don't think that Law Enforcement offered any information regarding Jennifer's suitcase from the vacation with her boyfriend that prior weekend.

I would think that this infomation would be very helpful to know. I do seem to recall it being said that Jennifer's keys were still missing and were not found in her car at the Huntington On The Green Condos.


My own opinion

 

[UK Sleuth]

To add to the post above what I am essentially saying is a far more in depth enquiry into Jks daily life than LE has had the resource to do.

Just the facts maam won't solve this case.

If I had to bet my money would be on someone who was working or had worked at mosaic/contruction site next door.

 

[GoodAim]

A couple quick thoughts:

***Was it just a person "Jennifer worked with" who stated that (in addition to her being uneasy about the workmen at her condo), someone actually tried to use to get into her apartment one night a few weeks before? Did her family or boyfriend state this too, or corroborate it? If not...? Early news reports indicated Jennifer as being very successful (promoted? can't remember) as well as lively and beautiful -- so, there's always jealousy. The timing, right after her return from vacation, could support the idea of a jealous and now enraged co-worker who didn't have the money for a vacation like that, didn't have a boyfriend, and may even have had to pick up some slack at work. Earlier in this thread someone commented that the people at her workplace were instructed not to talk about Jennifer...

***The hallway of her condo shown in the photos (linked ealier in this thread) is a perfect layout for someone to lurk with nooks everywhere.

***Would carrying a purse, a briefcase, and the keys to her car as she approached her car have made her more vulnerable to attack? When I was 23 y.o. and mugged by 3 teens I had my purse over my shoulder and was carrying 2 shopping bags. Carrying stuff can really put you "off balance" in terms of defense. Never again! Something like a briefcase can be difficult to drop quickly if there is a tight "handhold".

 

[CatLynnette]

UK Sleuth,

for what it's worth, I came to some of my own conclusions regarding the suspect by reading messages on this thread yesterday.

I personally believe that Jennifer was approached by the suspect outdoors on the way to her car at the Mosaic. I came to this conclusion based on the bloodhound tracking the suspect's scent from Huntington On The Green Condominiums to the stairwell of Jennifer's building at the Mosaic Condominiums. The bloodhound wouldn't have tracked the scent of the suspect back to the stairwell of Jennifer's Condo building if the suspect had never been to the Mosaic.

The guardhouse at the Mosaic Condominiums was manned the day of Jennifer's disappearance. It makes sense to me that the suspect would not have wanted to call attention to himself in regards to this guard in the guardhouse.

Why would the suspect have walked back to the Mosaic after dropping off Jennifer's car at Huntington On The Green? A reasonable answer to this question would be that either the suspect is a resident at the Mosaic Condominums or else he is a worker at the Mosaic and needed to retrieve his work vehicle.

If not a Mosaic resident or a Mosaic worker then retreiving his vehicle and exiting past the guard in the guardhouse would have been way too risky for the suspect.

The only other possibility that I see is if the suspect returned to the Mosaic to retrieve his bicycle which he rode to and from the Mosaic complex the back way through the construction site.

If my conclusions are reasonable then this significantly reduces the list of people of who this suspect may be. The suspect would either be a Mosaic resident, a Mosaic worker or a bicyclist.

Just my opinion

 

[GoodAim]

POI photos behind the gate... impressions...

Altho we can see almost anything we want, there seems to be something "delicate" about the back of the POI's neck... almost looks like a female whose long hair was coiled up and secured under a cap. The back of the neck looks hairless, so the hair had to be long enough to get up off the neck--- gotta be 5" (?) or more to secure it so neatly? As someone else posted, with imagination there appears to be an earring on the right ear. The ear itself looks small and, once again, "delicate". Since the neck appears pale, unsunburned, and unmarked I wonder if the POI's neck is usually covered by hair.

There seems to be a strange posture, not a sway-back, but not a masculine shoulders-forward-type walk. There's a (well, of course) furtive, looking-down posture. If it wasn't for the dog's scent trail, I'd wonder if the POI might've been heading over to a car parked just ahead of the POI, where the white ones are parked in the aerial photos linked earlier in this thread..

 

[UK Sleuth]

Hi Cat

Thanks for that.

If you look back at any of my posts you will see that I am of exactly the same opinion as you that it is someone who is in some way linked to the Mosaic complex.

It makes no sense to me to head back towards mosaic where you know theres a strong possibilty that there will be people looking for Jennifer.

The fact the car was parked so close says to me the person had to be back at least in the area of mosaic if not why not park it the other side of town?

The trouble with this case is with such little to go on it leaves open endless possibilities and theories.

A suspect dumped Jennifers car about a mile from her apartment.
The suspect headed back to the mosaic apartment and was tracked there by the dog.
(What are the chances of the dog tracking wrong and by chance going to Jennifers complex?)
Jennifers car was dumped coincidentally when the alarm was raised.
The amount of fuel was right so the car wasnt driven far.

My opinion is that it was someone linked to mosaic who had a fixation on Jennifer and I believe one of the following two scenarios occurred:

1) JK is abducted at gun point upon leaving her apartment most probably at her car and is forced to drive somewhere, when the perp has restrained or I hate to say disposed of her he cleans up, drives back to HOTG and then wanders back to his condo or place of work.

2) JK is abducted at gun point and forced into another condo on the mosaic complex, restrained and then when the alarm is raised the perp moves her car to HOTG to throw the scent away from Mosaic.
(He then has to head back because she is there!)

Many think this was a pre-planned crime yet the dumping of the car doesnt appear very planned as HOTG has CCTV, albeit poor.

Surely the perp would select a place without CCTV to dump the car when planning?

Was the car dumped in a hurry as they knew the heat was on?

Maybe this wasnt so pre-planned.

What if the person had become fixated with Jennifer and discovered she had gone away with Rob at the weekend?

He has all the weekend to stew and then bam when she returns he can't wait any longer and has to act.

Abducts her into his condo or a condo that is empty.

The fact that the car was parked at a place with CCTV is now making me think this wasn't such a well planned out crime.

I think someone said the suspect appears to quicken when he sees the sign that says cameras are in operation, this would be a sign that the perp had not planned to dump the car at HOTG as you would assume that he would do a reconnaisance mission of the place he had planned to dump the car.(im not certain on the quicken)

This is no einstein he has just got lucky if you ask me.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I can just see this guy hanging around the area volunteering to help look, knock on her door, search the complex, offer information. His 15 minutes of fame.

 

[leftcoast]

Well said UK

Hope you had a nice weekend

Yes, it does make you wonder if the HOTG was a change in plans. Maybe the person had a friend who used to live at HOTG, and didn't know about the cameras. It would be interesting to know how long the CCTV was at HOTG? REcently installed, or there a long time?

I don't know if you viewed the "darkened" photo done by BB. But, I am convinced the POI is carrying some type of envelope in his right hand, which would explain why his hand is clenched.

HMM, JK was supposedly going to mail a package, envelope in right hand?

Are we 100% certain that phone was never mailed?

UK, did you notice how I mentioned that LE skipped 10 seconds of the POI after he exits the car? Why? What did he do? My vote is he retreived something from the back seat, dropped something, or from the trunk.

I still think LE has skipped over the POI.

MY theory about the bicycle is starting to gain some speed. It would explain why the POI was carrying something (instead of leaving it at an apartment or house or his own car) Why carry something if you had JK at your condo, or if you had your own car?

Did LE find a duffel bag, and if so, can they tie it to JK's car?

What if the POI was on bike, could he have used JK's car to go to a secluded area, you know what, driven back to HOTG, retreived his stuff from the car, went back to HOTG to retreive his bike. Does it make any sense?

Could he be a bike messenger that picked up the phone? or just a bike rider?

Could he have run into JK at the Post office parking lot? IF so, why go back to Mosaic, unless he went there to rob, and the commotion scared him off.

Confusing case. I sure wish we knew if the dog tracking was 100%, and exactly where the dog tracked.

I thought I heard the dog got "excited" about a scent behind JK's, in the woods. But, nothing was found. Could the POI have been hiding in wait?

The longer this goes on, the more convinced I am that the pOI lives or works right in that community. There's no way a stranger parks his car a mile away, and knows the route, short cut, etc. to Mosaic. I just don't think the POI was aware of the camera's, but unless you lived there, you wouldn't

Let's hope something breaks soon.

left

 

[CatLynnette]

UK Sleuth,

I am in agreement with you regarding nearly everything you wrote. I especially like this that you wrote:

<snip>
The fact the car was parked so close says to me the person had to be back at least in the area of mosaic if not why not park it the other side of town?




Exactly! The suspect needed to drop off Jennifer's car near to the Mosaic because it was necessary for some reason for him to walk back to the Mosaic. Of course the suspect couldn't drop Jennifer's car at the Mosaic and risk being seen driving her car.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that the suspect is most likely either a resident of the Mosaic or else a worker at the Mosaic.

 

[UK Sleuth]

Great weekend thanks Left

I couldnt look at the darkened picture I am still posting from work and certain things are banned like photobucket or whatever it is.

Can it be posted in some other form?

Yes I did see your point about the time skipping on the new video.
Hard to call that one, I don't really see much point in holding back anything.

Let's say they do get something from the trunk or back seat does that make him any more incriminated than he currently is?
Maybe he wipes down the door handle?

What I am saying is by releasing the footage now LE are basically saying to the public and the perp we know your involved, you haven't come forward and you are now a suspect not a poi so therefore I don't see why they need to withhold anything such as him getting something out the boot or trunk.

Maybe they are hoping that someone who thinks they know the poi but doesnt believe they did it will come forward.

The trap didnt work they have now admitted defeat so if they do have footage of the suspect doing something like wiping the car down or getting something from the trunk then I don't see a reason to withhold.

Maybe there is a reason perhaps you can correct me?

I still think that is a hat and the bike helmet would fit.

I'm pretty certain its a man too.

 

[leftcoast]

I can just see this guy hanging around the area volunteering to help look, knock on her door, search the complex, offer information. His 15 minutes of fame.

good call BB

that is why when a girl goes missing, the search teams require everyone to give their id. They say it is for safety, but the main purpose is that every male 5"4 just put himself on the watch list.

It is true that many criminals interject themselves into the search. this way, they keep tabs on the search, and want to find out what LE knows.

I really think this guy is someone obvious, but, who comes across as a saint. Maybe, like I;ve said before, he looks nothing like the picture. IF you put a hat on someone bald, it really does change the appearance. Especialy since we don't have much to start on.

That is why I would focus on what we do know. The exact time the car was dropped. Find out where every suspect was at exactly noon. And the body, especially the thin calves will hopefully be a clue.

LIke i've said, I think he is someone who works out, a runner, a cylist, appears to be in very good shape. Plus, hops a fence. Not this old man. Must be a youngster.

left