FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #20

[FrayedKnot]

Well, the courts did not see Josh Powell as a danger either, so I think they have a low bar for that decision.

Jinx! I didn't read back before I posted downthread!

 

[Skully]

I think he sued for more time with the kids, maybe to decrease his child support payments?

So you don't think he wanted to really spend time with his kids??? Really?

 

[Skully]

I think he sued for more time with the kids, maybe to decrease his child support payments?

Do you have a link to this? I wouldn't think a "dead beat dad" would go to the bother of sueing his ex gf to get more time with the kids even if it lessed the $$$. Dead beat dads, just don't pay at all, they don't see the kids, or have anything to do with them. They don't hire lawyers and spend that kind of $$$ to get more time with their kids. JMO

 

[katydid23]

So was her other son and his dad took him away too. Should he have been made to stay also?

He did not 'take him away'. He allows his son to visit whenever he wants to. That is a big difference, imo.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I absolutely know this won't be popular but there's no way in hell I'd allow my children to see people that talk bad about me and think I disappeared their missing parent, especially if I were innocent of that crime. & then bc I'm so very protective of my children, I'd move them a thousand miles away or more once I was cleared.

Now, do I believe Yvonne should see the twins? Of course I do. Do I think it's right they're being kept away? No I don't...but I know I'd do the same thing of I were innocent & I were afraid that my children's grandparents would turn them against me.

 

[katydid23]

Do you have a link to this? I wouldn't think a "dead beat dad" would go to the bother of sueing his ex gf to get more time with the kids even if it lessed the $$$. Dead beat dads, just don't pay at all, they don't see the kids, or have anything to do with them. They don't hire lawyers and spend that kind of $$$ to get more time with their kids. JMO

Notice that I used the term ' I think'---thus it is purely a guess, speculation only. But I do know that he owed back child support as that was linked here somewhere upstream. And they had some fights over custody and support issues.

 

[katydid23]

So you don't think he wanted to really spend time with his kids??? Really?

Oh, I think he DID want to spend time with his kids. I think he wanted to be the ONLY PARENT that had control of them. I think the fact that Michelle was getting serious with her new boyfriend was what triggered Dale that day. He certainly did want to spend time with his kids. And he did not want Michelle and her new beau to do so anymore, imo.

 

[katydid23]

I absolutely know this won't be popular but there's no way in hell I'd allow my children to see people that talk bad about me and think I disappeared their missing parent, especially if I were innocent of that crime. & then bc I'm so very protective of my children, I'd move them a thousand miles away or more once I was cleared.

Now, do I believe Yvonne should see the twins? Of course I do. Do I think it's right they're being kept away? No I don't...but I know I'd do the same thing of I were innocent & I were afraid that my children's grandparents would turn them against me.

I look at it this way. If I was the last one to see my partner, but I was innocent, then I would have no worries about anything my kids might say about that last day. So I would tell the grandparents that I was innocent, and I would allow my kids to visit them.

Did you notice that in the very beginning, Michelles family supported and defended Dale? They publicly stated that a carjacker was the probable cause. But even then, Dale kept the kids away from them.

 

[Skully]

I absolutely know this won't be popular but there's no way in hell I'd allow my children to see people that talk bad about me and think I disappeared their missing parent, especially if I were innocent of that crime. & then bc I'm so very protective of my children, I'd move them a thousand miles away or more once I was cleared.

Now, do I believe Yvonne should see the twins? Of course I do. Do I think it's right they're being kept away? No I don't...but I know I'd do the same thing of I were innocent & I were afraid that my children's grandparents would turn them against me.

Well getting on the news and saying the kids look "dirty" or "unhappy" or they are "not the same" will not get catch any flies with that honey. I would do the same thing, keep them as far from the family as possible just because I don't want bad mouthing going on behind my back. I read here, some think GP does, and many think Dale and even MN does, and I can tell you that some of the posts would stick in my crawl and I don't think it is helping YS see any more of her grandbabies if the wrong people see some of what is said here. Now that is just my opinion, and how I see it.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Why? Does his father have a violent criminal record, too? Is he a POI in a missing person's case?

Bc we're not allowed to sleuth him, we can't answer that question.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I look at it this way. If I was the last one to see my partner, but I was innocent, then I would have no worries about anything my kids might say about that last day. So I would tell the grandparents that I was innocent, and I would allow my kids to visit them.

Did you notice that in the very beginning, Michelles family supported and defended Dale? They publicly stated that a carjacker was the probable cause. But even then, Dale kept the kids away from them.

Yep, I totally agree with you if that were the case with me. But problem is that I see it from a different standpoint. He might not be worried about what the kids would say, it might be bc he's worried what everyone else would say to them.

Michelle's mother was very smart & contained herself in the beginning, however most of Michelle's friends & family were stating the opposite outside of the media's eyes. That's how it came to be noticed.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

If a man throws a heavy object at his girlfriend, while she is holding his 15 month old baby, and he threatens the mother with further violence, with the kids looking on, is that not 'mistreating' the children?

The older brother also describes incidents where he saw his mom being hit by Dale. I call that child abuse. imo

But that was in the past & Michelle continued to run right on back to Dale.

I thought both of them being made to look like fools on People's Court would have started to make them grow up. Maybe they were both trying to maintain a respectful coparenting relationship since they finally realized they'd never coexist as a couple again.

In all serious, Dale wasn't the only one that cheated. Maybe somebody Michelle was with saw that PC episode & it ticked him off... Just a thought.

 

[vibert]

I look at it this way. If I was the last one to see my partner, but I was innocent, then I would have no worries about anything my kids might say about that last day. So I would tell the grandparents that I was innocent, and I would allow my kids to visit them.

Did you notice that in the very beginning, Michelles family supported and defended Dale? They publicly stated that a carjacker was the probable cause. But even then, Dale kept the kids away from them.

I agree with Jersey girl. There's too much speculating and emotional attachment going on as I also posted earlier.

katydid23, maybe dsjr does not want the twins to see michelle's family because he just doesn't want them to see each other? There are always multiple reasons something could be done- maybe even the most random, out of the blue, unlikely reason.

You can speculate that he doesn't want the twins to say anything. Maybe he just doesn't want them around michelle's family.

Twenty some odd years ago my parents were divorced. My mom always got a long with my dad's family. As soon as the divorce went through she cut off all contact and a few months later we moved to the other side of the state. Why did she do it who knows? Spite maybe. Maybe she thought they would try to influence me against her. Maybe dsjr thinks this also that michelle's family will try to make the twins reject him. At any rate my grandmother eventually had to sue for visitation.

Things are rarely if ever as black and white as y'all are trying to make out.
Is dsjr a bad guy? Yeah probably. He's definitely not someone I would try to be friends with, but constantly bashing him, calling him names, and letting your emotions take over with no proof is getting old.

 

[Spice]

Children belong with their parents not grandparents,

Bold By Me.

That is absolutely not necessarily true. I can't tell you how many children are in Kinship Foster Care due to the behavior of abusive parents, and yes exposing your children to domestic violence is considered child abuse. Things are not that black and white and if in fact, he is found to have killed their mother, do they still belong "with him?" Did Powell's kids "belong" with Josh? Or would they have been better off with their grandparents? Michelle's children were raised in that house with their mother and Yvonne. That was their home. Their lives have been totally torn apart. They must be devastated and it doesn't surprise me in the least that Yvonne reports that they look "blank."

there is no evidence that Dale is a "ticking time bomb" notwithstanding his previous record Dale was trying and succeeding in turning his life around.

Dale has an extremely violent and abusive past, especially toward the women in his life. Abuse is a pattern and escalates over time. He is a classic abuser! How much more writing needs to be on the wall? He threatened Michelle and told her that she would "get hers someday" which unfortunately it looks like she has, and since he and only he is the prime suspect, most likely at his hands. He also pushed and shoved a reporter on his way in to a court hearing that would ultimately ask a judge to find him a fit parent who was not dangerous or violent. This is a man that cannot control his anger when he is feeling threatened.He cannot even fake it! Obviously.

there is no evidence he ever mistreated or abused his children, as a matter of fact I would bet there is nobody in this thread who has first hand knowledge about the kind of relationship Dale has with his own children, please correct me if I am wrong.

Dale was holding their then-15-month-old daughter when he cursed at Michelle and broke the passenger-side window on her truck during an argument over the children.

Domestic violence in front of children is a form of child abuse. Period. And can be grounds for removal if it is chronic or severe.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...er-missing-dcf-20120124_1_children-dcf-mother

He is also keeping them from seeing their grandmother, who they lived with and who helped raise them, and who they love. How is that not emotionally abusive? I don't care what they are "saying" about him, his children should come first. They have already lost their mother. Dale doesn't seem to understand that its not all about him.


The family court, the only body to exam real evidence in order to determine the best interest of the children has place them with their father, and that is not speculation, theory or opinion is a matter of public records.

It is VERY difficult to remove children from the care of a biological parent, child welfare is all about reunification, and abuse has to be specific and severe for removal to occur, sometimes at the cost of the child. Just because a judge ruled that the kids stay with Dale does not mean they should actually be living with him or that they are safe. It means that-that is the call that the judge made with the evidence that he had. I work with Child Welfare all of the time, it does not operate the way that most people think it does. It is complex, frustrating and not at all black and white, and sometimes the courts hands are tied. You would be surprised.

 

[katydid23]

I agree with Jersey girl. There's too much speculating and emotional attachment going on as I also posted earlier.

katydid23, maybe dsjr does not want the twins to see michelle's family because he just doesn't want them to see each other? There are always multiple reasons something could be done- maybe even the most random, out of the blue, unlikely reason.

You can speculate that he doesn't want the twins to say anything. Maybe he just doesn't want them around michelle's family.

Twenty some odd years ago my parents were divorced. My mom always got a long with my dad's family. As soon as the divorce went through she cut off all contact and a few months later we moved to the other side of the state. Why did she do it who knows? Spite maybe. Maybe she thought they would try to influence me against her. Maybe dsjr thinks this also that michelle's family will try to make the twins reject him. At any rate my grandmother eventually had to sue for visitation.

Things are rarely if ever as black and white as y'all are trying to make out.
Is dsjr a bad guy? Yeah probably. He's definitely not someone I would try to be friends with, but constantly bashing him, calling him names, and letting your emotions take over with no proof is getting old.

BBM

I don't think I am calling him names or letting my emotions take over, nor am I constantly bashing him. I am simply replying, with facts, and links, to posts that are saying he is a good guy, misunderstood, and is innocent.

This is a forum where we are allowed to do that. :what:

 

[katydid23]

I agree with Jersey girl. There's too much speculating and emotional attachment going on as I also posted earlier.

katydid23, maybe dsjr does not want the twins to see michelle's family because he just doesn't want them to see each other? There are always multiple reasons something could be done- maybe even the most random, out of the blue, unlikely reason.

You can speculate that he doesn't want the twins to say anything. Maybe he just doesn't want them around michelle's family.

Twenty some odd years ago my parents were divorced. My mom always got a long with my dad's family. As soon as the divorce went through she cut off all contact and a few months later we moved to the other side of the state. Why did she do it who knows? Spite maybe. Maybe she thought they would try to influence me against her. Maybe dsjr thinks this also that michelle's family will try to make the twins reject him. At any rate my grandmother eventually had to sue for visitation.

Things are rarely if ever as black and white as y'all are trying to make out.
Is dsjr a bad guy? Yeah probably. He's definitely not someone I would try to be friends with, but constantly bashing him, calling him names, and letting your emotions take over with no proof is getting old.

BBM

Was that fair to you kids though? You were cut off from half of your family and from people that loved and cared about you. And it must have been sad for them as well.
That is what hurts me about this situation. Not only did the twins lose their mom, suddenly and with no explanation, but they lost the very family that had been raising them since birth.

They had a nice home with a mom and a big brother and a grandmother and an aunt. And then suddenly, ALL of those people who they were bonded with were gone. That is devastating, imo. And I really do not believe that Dale is a good enough substitute for that kind of a loss. he has a very short temper and is under a lot of stress. And I am sure the kids are whining about their mom, a lot.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

It is VERY difficult to remove children from the care of a biological parent, child welfare is all about reunification, and abuse has to be specific and severe for removal to occur, sometimes at the cost of the child. Just because a judge ruled that the kids stay with Dale does not mean they should actually be living with him or that they are safe. It means that-that is the call that the judge made with the evidence that he had. I work with Child Welfare all of the time, it does not operate the way that most people think it does. It is complex, frustrating and not at all black and white, and sometimes the courts hands are tied. You would be surprised.

So very true. I personally grew up running away bc my father & stepmomster were so abusive, mom died when I was young, father an alchie, stepmom was a hosebag - yet I have le in my family. Laws were different back then. If it weren't for my Nona & her friends taking me away & getting a lawyer, I may not be alive bc even though I may not like it - the law is the law.

BUT

All of that doesn't mean Dale was abusive after he went to the People's Court. It also doesn't mean that he or Michelle didn't learn from their past mistakes bc I think they were both embarrassed. Neither one really "won" iykwim.

To me, I'm still not sold. While I definitely believe men shouldn't lay a finger on a lady, in all fairness who honestly knows if any of these females hit them first...or pushed them...or got in their faces cussing & screaming...or threatened them...or or or.

That's why I'm up in the air about all of this. I keep thinking about every time Michelle's mom says she raised those kids, she gave them a home, their own rooms, yada yada. Well what about Michelle? Didn't Michelle raise her children? In my mind I think of course she did, but speaking with emotion can tend to leave out some info and sometimes become misconstrued or exaggerated.

 

[vibert]

Fair, maybe not, but let's face it divorce is ugly. I can imagine a missing person case where the other parent is the accused would be 10 times worse.

Michelle's mother said she has seen them 3 times in 6 months. Due to the accusal I'm sure there is bad blood between them. I mean he really as the parental guardian didn't have to let her see them at all much less multiple times.


Where was dssr during the dropping off of the twins? Someone come up with a scenario that dssr did it without dsjr knowing.
Dssr is the one who was doing the research. Maybe he's the one who thought dsjr was humiliated on the show and took his anger out on michelle?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

BBM

Was that fair to you kids though? You were cut off from half of your family and from people that loved and cared about you. And it must have been sad for them as well.
That is what hurts me about this situation. Not only did the twins lose their mom, suddenly and with no explanation, but they lost the very family that had been raising them since birth.

They had a nice home with a mom and a big brother and a grandmother and an aunt. And then suddenly, ALL of those people who they were bonded with were gone. That is devastating, imo. And I really do not believe that Dale is a good enough substitute for that kind of a loss. he has a very short temper and is under a lot of stress. And I am sure the kids are whining about their mom, a lot.

Nope, it's definitely not fair. It sucks to be quite frank. But whose to say why he's doing this. If he's doing it bc he thinks he's being protective, then what? I'm totally at a loss.

 

[Spice]

Nope, it's definitely not fair. It sucks to be quite frank. But whose to say why he's doing this. If he's doing it bc he thinks he's being protective, then what? I'm totally at a loss.

I'm sorry that you went through all of that. It hurts me sometimes to see children at the mercy of our laws and courts that are there to protect them, but sometimes have their hands tied. I am for reunification, but there is a human cost to that when it goes wrong, and sometimes it does, horribly and tragically wrong. I believe in my heart that he is doing what he is doing out of the pure control of a maniacal abuser. Thats just my opinion.

I believe that we need to respect the desires of children more, and not assume that we KNOW what is best for them. If you were adamant that you wanted to live with your nona, or these kids were adamant that they wanted to live with Yvonne (or Dale for that matter) we should take that into account. They have rights y'know? We assume that they are totally helpless, but children know, they know where they want to be, if they feel safe, loved, or comfortable. They have very good instincts and know when they are in danger. They just might be too afraid to express themselves, for many reasons, which is often the case.