FL - Sara Morales, 35, shot dead by motorcyclist she hit with car, Orange City, 20 Nov 2021

[darring21]

I am a little behind, but if she pulled a gun on them and pointed at them , it sounds like their lives were in imminent danger. As in, they thought she was going to shoot. Self defense has to be initiated when one believes their life is in danger, and before it’s too late.
I’m guessing she didn’t realize they were armed, so maybe she thought she could intimidate them into leaving. Maybe she never planned to pull the trigger. But they had to assume she did. Jmo

I need to go back and see if I’m missing something.

It seems like she would have been justified if she had shot him as soon as he began to pull his gun under stand your ground. Her mistake was not shooting first. Seems like a messed up law to me.

 

[neesaki]

In the last few seconds of the video in the linked article the reporter says “The autopsy results on her pregnancy were inconclusive.”

What in the heck does that mean? They couldn’t confirm she was pregnant?

Very strange.

 

[Gardenista]

In the last few seconds of the video in the linked article the reporter says “The autopsy results on her pregnancy were inconclusive.”

What in the heck does that mean? They couldn’t confirm she was pregnant?

The same thing happened in the Ally Kostial case.

 

[SuziQ]

Can you please cite the legality of following a driver who has left the scene of an accident? This is just a quick Google search leading to a lawyer site, but it says:

“Leaving the scene of an accident is a serious offense. Drivers who do so face harsh penalties. If you are involved in an accident and the driver leaves the scene, you should not follow them. You should neither leave the scene, as this will lower your chances of getting justice. Take notes of the incident, record a police statement, and contact your insurance provider.”

What to Do if the Driver Leaves the Scene? - LamberGoodnow

This says you should not follow them. I agree. It is not something I would do. It is still legal to do so.

Moo.

 

[SuziQ]

It seems like she would have been justified if she had shot him as soon as he began to pull his gun under stand your ground. Her mistake was not shooting first. Seems like a messed up law to me.

Certainly, you aren't suggesting that if someone pulls a gun on me, that I stand there and get shot first, before attempting to defend myself?

If someone pulls a gun on me, I'm not going to be thinking oh they are just joking. Oh they are just being scary. I'm going to rightfully assume they are going to shoot. I am not going to wait until I get shot to say, darn, I guess they weren't just trying to scare me. This lady made a big mistake. You pull a gun on someone, expect to get shot at.

Moo.

 

[darring21]

Certainly, you aren't suggesting that if someone pulls a gun on me, that I stand there and get shot first, before attempting to defend myself?

If someone pulls a gun on me, I'm not going to be thinking oh they are just joking. Oh they are just being scary. I'm going to rightfully assume they are going to shoot. I am not going to wait until I get shot to say, darn, I guess they weren't just trying to scare me. This lady made a big mistake. You pull a gun on someone, expect to get shot at.

Moo.

I'm saying that a law that allows either party to shoot the other is messed up. First shooter wins even if it is your house and on your property.

Plenty of trespassers are met by a homeowner with a gun and turn around and leave.

 

[PayrollNerd]

This has got to be the strangest he said / she said case I've ever read. It's like it escalated from 0 to 60 in a nanosecond. I've been reading along but haven't seen anything about video proof. Have I just missed it? Are there traffic cameras, business cameras or doorbell cameras that could clear up the ambiguity of the events? The participant stories are on opposite ends of the spectrum. The media can't even seem to get the facts or the sequence of events correct.

 

[Missing Susan]

It seems like she would have been justified if she had shot him as soon as he began to pull his gun under stand your ground. Her mistake was not shooting first. Seems like a messed up law to me.

Its easy to imagine a scenario when both parties feel threatened by the other regardless of the circumstances that occurred leading up to the first drawing of a gun.

If she felt threatened with mortal danger by a person yelling at her in her driveway, she could have killed him and defended her actions in court under the self defense statutes. Once she pointed a gun at the motorcycle guy, he now can argue self defense in the face of perceived mortal danger.

Once both guns are drawn, its almost a mutual combatant situation. No heroes are to be found on either side of this stinking saga.

 

[oviedo]

This has got to be the strangest he said / she said case I've ever read. It's like it escalated from 0 to 60 in a nanosecond. I've been reading along but haven't seen anything about video proof. Have I just missed it? Are there traffic cameras, business cameras or doorbell cameras that could clear up the ambiguity of the events? The participant stories are on opposite ends of the spectrum. The media can't even seem to get the facts or the sequence of events correct.

I’ve also wondered if she had a doorbell camera and what about her Mom? What did she witness?

 

[cvaldez1975]

This has got to be the strangest he said / she said case I've ever read. It's like it escalated from 0 to 60 in a nanosecond. I've been reading along but haven't seen anything about video proof. Have I just missed it? Are there traffic cameras, business cameras or doorbell cameras that could clear up the ambiguity of the events? The participant stories are on opposite ends of the spectrum. The media can't even seem to get the facts or the sequence of events correct.

if there is no one has shared it. i really would be interested whether there is any video of her "mowing down" this guy.

 

[cvaldez1975]

still nothing more in the news on Mr. Derr.

 

[Tee7077]

This has got to be the strangest he said / she said case I've ever read. It's like it escalated from 0 to 60 in a nanosecond. I've been reading along but haven't seen anything about video proof. Have I just missed it? Are there traffic cameras, business cameras or doorbell cameras that could clear up the ambiguity of the events? The participant stories are on opposite ends of the spectrum. The media can't even seem to get the facts or the sequence of events correct.

This case isn't he said she said. It's what the police and witnesses said vs websleuthers who have made up a narrative in their heads and are running with it like it's the absolute truth.

 

[Detective Willy]

IMO Sara should not have left the scene of the accident. This is where the tragedy begins.

When she left the scene the 3 men should have called Police and maybe followed her without being threatening. Once she arrived at her house the 3 men should have waited for Police to arrive. They should NOT have confronted her with weapons within reach.

Most men would be very scared if 3 bikies turned up at your front door with weapons.

I believe Sara would have been petrified and you can hear it in her voice on the 911 call.

IMO the shooter should be spending a long time in jail. There was no need for him to escalate this to the point it got to and now a woman is dead.

 

[SuziQ]

IMO Sara should not have left the scene of the accident. This is where the tragedy begins.

When she left the scene the 3 men should have called Police and maybe followed her without being threatening. Once she arrived at her house the 3 men should have waited for Police to arrive. They should NOT have confronted her with weapons within reach.

Most men would be very scared if 3 bikies turned up at your front door with weapons.

I believe Sara would have been petrified and you can hear it in her voice on the 911 call.

IMO the shooter should be spending a long time in jail. There was no need for him to escalate this to the point it got to and now a woman is dead.

How would she know they had weapons? She drew hers first Afaik. Or do I have that wrong?

 

[cvaldez1975]

IMO Sara should not have left the scene of the accident. This is where the tragedy begins.

When she left the scene the 3 men should have called Police and maybe followed her without being threatening. Once she arrived at her house the 3 men should have waited for Police to arrive. They should NOT have confronted her with weapons within reach.

Most men would be very scared if 3 bikies turned up at your front door with weapons.

I believe Sara would have been petrified and you can hear it in her voice on the 911 call.

IMO the shooter should be spending a long time in jail. There was no need for him to escalate this to the point it got to and now a woman is dead.

if there even was an accident

 

[rosesfromangels]

still nothing more in the news on Mr. Derr.

Woah, what a case. Thx for alerting me to it cvaldez1975.

My gut reaction, without having followed it closely is this. Road rage from incident decendent allegedly caused escalated. Bikers followed her to her home where they were met with a weapon, and responded with deadly force.

Had they called LE vs confront the woman, no one would be dead. At minimum, this appears to be manslaughter, IMO.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Laughing]

Woah, what a case. Thx for alerting me to it cvaldez1975.

My gut reaction, without having followed it closely is this. Road rage from incident decendent allegedly caused escalated. Bikers followed her to her home where they were met with a weapon, and responded with deadly force.

Had they called LE vs confront the woman, no one would be dead. At minimum, this appears to be manslaughter, IMO.

amateur opinion and speculation

TWO counts of manslaughter/murder -- Ms. Morales and the baby she carried. Or ONE count of manslaughter and ONE count of murder of the baby.

BTW who shoots a pregnant woman??? Who does that?

(Unless perhaps that shooter has a problem with the baby's father, perhaps???)

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[PayrollNerd]

An inconclusive pregnancy result makes me wonder if she had recently miscarried but hadn’t revealed that to her mother yet. The mother thinks she is pregnant at that point. But if the ME can’t confirm it, it was either too early or too late. Unless there’s some medical condition that I’m unaware of that would produce an inconclusive result.

 

[Razz]

An inconclusive pregnancy result makes me wonder if she had recently miscarried but hadn’t revealed that to her mother yet. The mother thinks she is pregnant at that point. But if the ME can’t confirm it, it was either too early or too late. Unless there’s some medical condition that I’m unaware of that would produce an inconclusive result.

Or maybe they can't confirm how the baby died?

 

[rosesfromangels]

TWO counts of manslaughter/murder -- Ms. Morales and the baby she carried. Or ONE count of manslaughter and ONE count of murder of the baby.

BTW who shoots a pregnant woman??? Who does that?

(Unless perhaps that shooter has a problem with the baby's father, perhaps???)

jmho ymmv lrr

Yes, you are right on the double count to include the unborn child.