FL - Somer Thompson, 7, Orange Park, 19 Oct 2009 #31

[Noway]

snipped from Sleuthygal

And as for discerning what is truth and what is rumor...it's always wise to not assume anything presented as fact is a fact until it has been corroborated by LE, is in some official investigation document, and is presented as a fact in a court of law. Outside of that, anything could be a rumor or someone's interpretation on something which isn't accurate.

This made me laugh (in a sad way) because all I could think of was that the only document we have that meets this criteria is the missing person report.

And we know that it's not all fact.

 

[ChickenPants]

Wow...I came to this thread to read about the case and get the latest updates and so far, in going through the last 10 pages, what I've mostly seen is discussions about child care, child care in FL, whether someone is old enough to be a babysitter...

My goodness... is it that hard to discuss the CASE and the CASE alone?

Regardless of what you think of someone's parenting style or how they should raise their kids, a CRIME has been committed...the worst crime any parent can imagine. Is that not worthy of being focused on by WS posters?

And btw, the crime isn't the parenting, the crime is that someone abducted a little girl on her way home from school and murdered her.

Many WSers would like to get updates to the case and not have to wade through multiple pages of peoples' opinions on parenting and how they would have raised the Thompson kids if they were the parent.

ETA: I haven't read the last 25 posts yet so I'm not including any of those in my 'please, please get back on topic' vent.

And as for discerning what is truth and what is rumor...it's always wise to not assume anything presented as fact is a fact until it has been corroborated by LE, is in some official investigation document, and is presented as a fact in a court of law. Outside of that, anything could be a rumor or someone's interpretation on something which isn't accurate.

I would like the opportunity to visit this topic AGAIN.
I, for one, am not interested in discussing DT's parenting - good or bad - or lack of it.

I am interested in the circumstances that brought Somer to the point where she was abducted in broad daylight. Each and every bit is pertinent to the crime. A person can get killed in their own home. A person can get killed in a bar. A person can get murdered in a school in session.

Using the last example, there are now stricter regulations as to what kids can bring to school (nothing that can be used as a weapon).

This little girl woke up, went to school, and was abducted and killed while walking home. She got away from older sibling - who has not even been classified as a babysitter, but more of an escort. She was never seen again.

It is not unreasonable to ponder how much the killer may have known about her or her normal routines. If she walked home every day without adult supervision, a killer would have greater access to her. This leads one to speculate on a motive and opportunity of a killer. Did he know her personally? If he was a stranger, had he been watching her? Either/or, the KILLER KNEW SHE WOULD BE COMING HOME AND THERE WOULD NOT BE AN ADULT WITH HER TO INTERFERE.

Because she was a young child, she did not choose her lifestyle and routines. These were chosen by her parent. The only reason the issue of day care even came into being was that DT steadfastly maintained on television that Somer walked home because she was out of the busing district - which places the responsibility for her circumstances on the Board of Education, rather than on the parent. And others here have stated the school should have supervised her. These are opinions that have been stated and the discussions are refuted with factual answers (after school day care programs do exist and they are free or affordable). What difference does it make if DT did not take advantage of them? It is simply that if Somer had been in an after school program - or picked up by her mother (who now says she wishes she had picked her up) - or been with an adult, the chances of her being grabbed would have been less. THAT IS A FACT. People keep saying that these issues are not pertinent to finding the killer. Does that mean LE is wrong for having put out a profile of a possible killer? If the parent is not important then who exactly is? Any person offering opinion, speculation or information that can help lead someone to putting together this increasingly fragmented puzzle is to be thanked, in my opinion.

The circumstances which placed the child in a position to give her killer an opportunity are paramount to finding that killer. And, as you say, bad parenting is not "the" crime but it is "a" crime if the parent is ever found and convicted of abuse or negligence.

It's very easy to scan threads you don't like or disagree with and just keep on reading elsewhere. Or better yet, present a valid theory which states that the killer did not know of or take advantage to Somer being available to him/her/it.

 

[ChickenPants]

The window of opportunity is so small ... both for the abduction and also for the murder and disposal of body. JMO

EXACTLY. Which is why I "speculate", or "have the opinion", or "some certainty", etc. etc., etc.
....that it was BIG person, who KNEW HER ROUTINE and VERY QUICKLY WITHOUT NOISE murdered her and knew exactly right where to put her, and it happened right under the noses of everyone. It was a person nobody would ever dream of suspecting.

A tree is known by its fruit.

 

[ccane]

snipped from Sleuthygal



This made me laugh (in a sad way) because all I could think of was that the only document we have that meets this criteria is the missing person report.

And we know that it's not all fact.

I am sure DT being at Floyd Circle West and Gano is a fact

 

[ChickenPants]

snipped from Sleuthygal



This made me laugh (in a sad way) because all I could think of was that the only document we have that meets this criteria is the missing person report.

And we know that it's not all fact.

....and obviously nothing can or will be corroborated by LE because they are not releasing any information.

 

[trigger]

"She just always wanted everyone to be happy with her."

So sad...Very very sad. Poor little baby.

 

[sorrell skye]

Legal, moral, ethical, spiritual, metaphysical, etc., the chances of unsupervised children 10 years and under of being harmed, abducted, raped or murdered must be much higher than the chances of this happening to child(ren) accompained by adult.

The chances must go even higher if this is an ongoing situation where a would-be perpetrator is knowledgeable of their routines.

There must be some statistics (FACTS) to support it.

ITA, ChickenP - Children are at greater risk of harm of all kinds when unsupervised. They lack the experience, knowledge, and discernment needed to make safe, responsible choices. Which is why they need adult supervision until they have demonstrated otherwise.

The point I was trying to make in my various rants last night wasn't about childcare/no childcare. I have no interest in casting stones in either direction regarding that debate.

I was trying to point out that the legality/illegality of unsupervised children is, IMO, irrelevant. But I guess I got too wordy.

In other words - should adults (with or without children) base their decisions on whether or not their is a law telling them what to do?

There are signs posted at the freeway overpasses that warn against throwing objects off the overpass (along with the minimum fine for doing so). Personally, I don’t need a sign warning me not to do that because I understand that it could cause harm to the motorists down below. If it wasn’t illegal, and if there wasn’t a sign, would a few people make the absurd assumption that since there was no law against it, that it’s okay, that it’s a safe thing to do? Unfortunately, yes.

But that still wouldn’t make it right, or safe.

We are responsible for our choices, whether or not there is a law telling us what the right choice is.

KWIM?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

For the people her who pop in to get updated ..the clay county sheriff dept website is a good stop

For those who spend hours on a tread trying to understand how a child went missing between 3:05 and 5:10 at least they are trying to understand and find the answers

Who cares if they are ranting sometimes about other things

At least they care enough to try

ccane, hitting the thank you button did not seem enough for me.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

We have been discussing childcare, bus rides, etc...
But, I think that does pertain to this case. They have been questions since day one.

IMO if you are embarrassed to read here, why are you??
Also, it is very disheartening to be here, trying your best, discussing things you think are absolutly on topic and someone comes in to tell you nothing you are saying is worth anything (not exact words, but you get the point)

I am not here to waste anybody's time. I am not here to argue. I am here because I care about Somer.

Thank you ccane for your response to the post that pretty much said we are wasting everybody's time.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Someone (several someones) asked how they are to know when something is 'fact' vs 'rumor' and the answer is that you can't know for sure until or unless you see it from some official capacity. An Internet chat board is not an official capacity and while WS is certainly a good one, you still can't know for sure just because you see it posted here.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

But, I think the rules are if you are stating something that is rumor, you are supposed to state it is rumor. Am I wrong?

 

[NSC]

ccane, hitting the thank you button did not seem enough for me.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

We have been discussing childcare, bus rides, etc...
But, I think that does pertain to this case. They have been questions since day one.

IMO if you are embarrassed to read here, why are you??
Also, it is very disheartening to be here, trying your best, discussing things you think are absolutly on topic and someone comes in to tell you nothing you are saying is worth anything (not exact words, but you get the point)

I am not here to waste anybody's time. I am not here to argue. I am here because I care about Somer.

Thank you ccane for your response to the post that pretty much said we are wasting everybody's time.

***APPLAUSE****

This is exactly why I stopped posting on this thread in the first place. It always went off topic in the sense of being told - THATS WRONG --if all things were not considered then we would just all sit around and post about how terrible of a tragedy this was and nothing else and then WS would become a memorial board instead of a fact finding crime fighting message board- All within TOS of course.

 

[SleuthyGal]

fact finding crime fighting message board

That's my understanding of the board too.

I'll certainly try my best to correlate discussions of random parenting styles of posters to the Somer Thompson case since they must be linked and relevant (esp. since you all say so).

 

[Kimberlyd125]

When you just aren't getting any info from LE or media, it's hard to "sleuth" KWIM.

So, naturally, we are gonna go back over things that were already discussed or discuss things that we may not have thought was important before but may need to be looked at.

There are a lot of opinions on the big issues and the small issues.

If someone wanted to pop in to get an update, well, there is no update that I'm aware of. No new news. Sad, but true.

 

[ccane]

When you just aren't getting any info from LE or media, it's hard to "sleuth" KWIM.

So, naturally, we are gonna go back over things that were already discussed or discuss things that we may not have thought was important before but may need to be looked at.

There are a lot of opinions on the big issues and the small issues.

If someone wanted to pop in to get an update, well, there is no update that I'm aware of. No new news. Sad, but true.

On the first page of every thread Noway has documented all the facts found so far

Again thanks go out to Noway

 

[Noway]

On the first page of every thread Noway has documented all the facts found so far

Again thanks go out to Noway

Facts as reported by media and in the MPR.

You can get to the most recent version through the link in my signature. I only have 24 hours to update that first post so it usually appears a time or two in the thread. (Although not this time ... got lazy!) I update the link in my signature. You can tell that I've done it when I have to post the long list of links ...

 

[Noway]

AmandaReckonWith Photobucket Pictures and Videos

Clay County Clerk

Clay County Daily Bulletin

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4575804&postcount=2"]Facts I[/ame]


[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4575819&postcount=3"]Facts II[/ame]


Garbage Zones in Orange Park Area

Florida Sexual Offender and Predator Search

Investigative Check List For First Responders

Map of Somer's Route

Map Created by BreatheLife21
(crossing guard info seems off: should be Miller and Gano; Grove Park and Gano; DeBarry and Gano)

NoWay's MPR Post

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4448957&postcount=52"]MPR Narrative Transcribed[/ame]

Somer Thompson Book Bag

Somer Thompson Lunchbox

Somer Thompson Obituary

Websleuths Forensic Astrology Thread for Somer Thompson

Who's Who and RSOs (this takes you out of Websleuths to another forum)

 

[Noway]

Just did that to show what I meant and to fix the link to the lunchbox which didn't work. Checking others.

Clay County Bulletin got error but I think it's theirs not mine.

 

[ccane]

The fact finding has come from both views.. pro DT and not so Pro DT..
We both can have very different views and still work together

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Thank you Noway for all the time you spend doing that. It's a great resource for us to have.

 

[NSC]

That's my understanding of the board too.

I'll certainly try my best to correlate discussions of random parenting styles of posters to the Somer Thompson case since they must be linked and relevant (esp. since you all say so).

I am not sure I am following you -

I think parenting "style" is up for grabs in this case. Though, don't get me confused with saying it played a direct hand - I think in ALOT of cases parenting plays an indirect hand. Not all cases though but certainly this one - imo. Anyway, my opinion is that it is relevent as it gives me a foundation to work off of - starting with family life- hence this along with other specifics spawned my theory on the previous page.

This isn't an issue of breastfeeding attachment parenting verses bottle feeding. - If you read the links I posted on the prior page about sibling incest - most of the dynamic of this family is listed as a common characteristic that can cause such a thing - so regardless if that was the case or not - it is still high risk catagory for a family dynamic which therefore brings into question - parenting and making the best choices available for your children. There is always a choice in life.

For Example:
Even after Patsy and John Ramsey were cleared - Patsy, though 6 feet under is still being mutilated for her parenting style for letting Jon Benet take part in pagents etc etc --Some people believe P killed Jon Benet - Others think a pedophile intruder killed her - regardless, it comes back to parenting - A) Patsy control freak perfectionist killed her B) How could they let their daughter be exposed to a world to make her a pedophile target --- One of these could very well be true - And if so - one was direct and one was an indirect result - maybe it's neither - just trying to bring another example to the table. Personally, I don't think mom killed her daughter but I can gurantee you many people do - I am sure nobody wants their child murdered and their life thrown into the spotlight - not something you ask for or wish on anyone-- it is an awful thing - but it puts a person in the spotlight and open to criticism -

Sadly, in the Ramsey case we may never know the actual truth - and all the speculation and guessing never brought a killer to justice. Let's hope Somer's killer is brought to justice and this case does have a resoloution - and lets empower other PARENTS to learn better safety measures for their children - I would bet my LAST bottom dollar people in Somer's neighborhood have made changes to their routines when it comes to their children. I learn something new as a parent from each and every one of these cases - it always makes me think twice about the safety of my children!

I am not saying the family deserved anything of this either - NEVER!!! But why not learn and teach what can be done differently -- children are at risk as it is in life with all the bad things that can happen - we as parents are supposed to do everything in our power to protect them - sadly, even when every precaution that can be taken is made - sometimes it still isn't enough -