Florida Bar Allegedly Prepares Case against Baez

[countzero]

Yeah. Does anyone remember what the issue was about? I want to say it related to one of the car seats or a batch of photos that had been published that Cindy had not been aware of.


Novice Seeker

Hand written list of items as I recall. Whatever these items Jeff was asking CA about, ALyons and JB were getting rather testy (threats, going back before the judge) about Jeff's questions. And boy oh boy did CA want to spill her guts about it.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I agree we have seen lots of things that Baez has pulled that have disgusted us and have us questioning his ability, but we are talking about what the court, HHJP, and the Bar consider legal.

AZ and others have said over and over again that sleazy behavior does not reach the bar of being removed from a case as long as ICA repeats she is satisfied with her representation.

It is my understanding that it is only this even that will be considered by the legal community as questionable. So if there are any appeals, while I will bow to more experienced opinions, it would only be this particular piece of "evidence" that would be appealable - although it will probably never see the light of day in a court room at ICA's trial.

So I don't think it warrants removing Baez from the case, but as Bill S. says, the bar for Baez will be a lot higher when he is submitting anything at all to the court, than it has been in the past. I think HHJP will have Baez in a lock-step, however I'm assuming the offender is considered innocent until proven guilty - even and especially by the Bar.

So far, we have rumors, a document of a depo, and a lot of assumptions. Not enough to pull Baez. And Baez can't step down even if he wanted to. Rock - meet hard place. :loser:

That's correct. BUT if the bar association found him guilty of whatever charge he is up on now, then he WOULD be removed from the case. Trial would be most likely delayed....here we go again. So it is probably in the better interest to wait and finish up the bar complaint after the trial has taken place. I'm no lawyer, but I would think an appeal on ineffective counsel, like I said above, goes to the attorney's action or inaction in providing an adequate defense. I would imagine it would be a weighted decision. meaning on review say, the court found yes JB did this thing, but he adequately brought the case to trial. I'm not sure that would be enough to consitute inadequate counsel charges. We need a lawyer.

Somthing I found while googling:

First, the defendant must show that counsel’s performance was deficient. This requires showing that counsel made errors so serious that counsel was not functioning as the "counsel" guaranteed the defendant by the Sixth Amendment.

Second, the defendant must show that the deficient performance prejudiced the defense. This requires showing that counsel’s errors were so serious as to deprive the defendant of a fair trial, a trial whose result is reliable. Strickland v. Washington, 466 US 668, 104 S.Ct. 2052, 80 L.Ed. 2d 674 (1984)

 

[mysteriew]

Look, there are some cases that are going to be appealed NO MATTER WHAT. This is one of them. Of course, if she is convicted, she gets an automatic appeal anyway. But the ineffective counsel argument would have to show that due to the attorney's action or inaction, it hindered her defense. Yep, IMO, this is one of those cases, but she would most definitely be retried, with ANOTHER defense lawyer, and who in their right mind would take this case second time around besides a public defender. AND appeal process takes years and years and years and years. So however you rate it...KC will be toast. No matter how hard she tries. Tough cookies.

Sadly I think you are right.

 

[logicalgirl]

That's correct. BUT if the bar association found him guilty of whatever charge he is up on now, then he WOULD be removed from the case. Trial would be most likely delayed....here we go again. So it is probably in the better interest to wait and finish up the bar complaint after the trial has taken place. I'm no lawyer, but I would think an appeal on ineffective counsel, like I said above, goes to the attorney's action or inaction in providing an adequate defense. I would imagine it would be a weighted decision. meaning on review say, the court found yes JB did this thing, but he adequately brought the case to trial. I'm not sure that would be enough to consitute inadequate counsel charges. We need a lawyer.

Somthing I found while googling:

First, the defendant must show that counsel’s performance was deficient. This requires showing that counsel made errors so serious that counsel was not functioning as the "counsel" guaranteed the defendant by the Sixth Amendment.

Second, the defendant must show that the deficient performance prejudiced the defense. This requires showing that counsel’s errors were so serious as to deprive the defendant of a fair trial, a trial whose result is reliable. Strickland v. Washington, 466 US 668, 104 S.Ct. 2052, 80 L.Ed. 2d 674 (1984)

Thanks for your additional comments. And to the bolded - exactly! LOL

And I'm assuming on appeal her entire defense team would be considered - would it not? She's had quite the line-up compared to a PD!

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Here's a good link to study the situation!

http://www.caught.net/caught/ineffec.htm

It seems to have some good info...haven't looked at everything there though. It could be junk. First page looked good.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Wow! You know they're in trouble when WESH/Kealing gets the Belich Cold Shoulder from both JB and CM!

OMG. This is the BEST thing ever! JB finally, FINALLY speechless in front of a camera. :great::great: Me thinks he knows his azz is in a sling.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Gosh, JB and CM -- can't even comment on what's for lunch! LMAOROF

http://www.wesh.com/video/26731329/detail.html

Huh? Now that it's all about them, they finally get it. They actually are capable of a genuine "no comment." I believe this is some serious stuff and a nerve was finally hit. I. Am. Delighted.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Look, there are some cases that are going to be appealed NO MATTER WHAT. This is one of them. Of course, if she is convicted, she gets an automatic appeal anyway. But the ineffective counsel argument would have to show that due to the attorney's action or inaction, it hindered her defense. Yep, IMO, this is one of those cases, but she would most definitely be retried, with ANOTHER defense lawyer, and who in their right mind would take this case second time around besides a public defender. AND appeal process takes years and years and years and years. So however you rate it...KC will be toast. No matter how hard she tries. Tough cookies.

Can we add on the fact that Jose Baez is not Casey's only attorney? She is going to have to prove, in order to get an appeal, that she had ineffective counsel and I do not think that she can prove that. Yes, Jose may not have a problem with the accusations of ineffective counsel, but I can guarantee that Cheney Mason, Ann Finnell and Dorthy Clay-Sims would not take too kindly to such accusations. They would fight that accusation tooth and nail in order to protect their reputations.

Casey Anthony, since the day she hired Jose Baez, has had the right to fire him at any time. No one is forcing Casey to keep Jose as her attorney. It is Casey's choice to continue to have Jose Baez as her attorney. She has been in that courtroom and witnessed JB's behavior and still chooses to have him as her attorney. We have seen NO complaints about JB from Casey... she has had nothing but good things to say about him in her jailhouse visits, letters, etc...

We all know Casey is going to appeal, when convicted, anyways. It doesn't mean that she will win an appeal. And JB is in for a very rude awakening when he ends up on Casey's bad side after she doesn't get what JB promised her. JB is going to regret the day he ever met Casey and her family. If you think JB getting disbarred over this investigation is the worse thing he has coming... you are sadly mistaken. Casey and the Anthony family are going to ruin every aspect of JB's life... and I do feel a little bit bad for him, in that respect.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Can we add on the fact that Jose Baez is not Casey's only attorney? She is going to have to prove, in order to get an appeal, that she had ineffective counsel and I do not think that she can prove that. Yes, Jose may not have a problem with the accusations of ineffective counsel, but I can guarantee that Cheney Mason, Ann Finnell and Dorthy Clay-Sims would not take too kindly to such accusations. They would fight that accusation tooth and nail in order to protect their reputations.

Casey Anthony, since the day she hired Jose Baez, has had the right to fire him at any time. No one is forcing Casey to keep Jose as her attorney. It is Casey's choice to continue to have Jose Baez as her attorney. She has been in that courtroom and witnessed JB's behavior and still chooses to have him as her attorney. We have seen NO complaints about JB from Casey... she has had nothing but good things to say about him in her jailhouse visits, letters, etc...

We all know Casey is going to appeal, when convicted, anyways. It doesn't mean that she will win an appeal. And JB is in for a very rude awakening when he ends up on Casey's bad side after she doesn't get what JB promised her. JB is going to regret the day he ever met Casey and her family. If you think JB getting disbarred over this investigation is the worse thing he has coming... you are sadly mistaken. Casey and the Anthony family are going to ruin every aspect of JB's life... and I do feel a little bit bad for him, in that respect.

I hit the thanks button, but it wasn't enough. I agree with everything you said except for the bolded part. I will never, ever feel sorry for JB. Ever. He deserves everything he is getting, then some.

 

[The World According]

Gosh, JB and CM -- can't even comment on what's for lunch! LMAOROF

http://www.wesh.com/video/26731329/detail.html

After reading this LB depo, they would be well advised to shut the hell up, for good. WOW. It is Christmas all over again.
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6092400&postcount=197"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - List of Motions **NO DISCUSSION HERE PLEASE**[/ame]

Muzikman, we love you!!!!:rocker::rocker::rocker::rocker:

On page 77 , when Jose is cross examining her, he asks her if she knew that Cheney Mason and Cindy Anthony have been served criminal investigative subpoenas for documents etc as well as he was? Oh my. The State is not messing around. The investigation is ongoing.

Wouldn't it be just too too too funny if Laura filed a complaint that Baez misrepresented to the court what she originally said? Nothing would shock me with any of these characters.

If you don't have time to read it , she says several times in the depo that she was not in the same area, she doesn't even know exactly where Caylee was found!

 

[logicalgirl]

I hit the thanks button, but it wasn't enough. I agree with everything you said except for the bolded part. I will never, ever feel sorry for JB. Ever. He deserves everything he is getting, then some.

Can we have a general chorus of "Amen"?!

 

[LolaMoon08]

Thanks for your additional comments. And to the bolded - exactly! LOL

And I'm assuming on appeal her entire defense team would be considered - would it not? She's had quite the line-up compared to a PD!

Exactly!

I look at JB as more of a mascot for the defense. He likes to dance around, taunt the opposition, and ends up laying on his back, screaming and kicking, when the game doesn't go his teams way.

I don't see how Casey could win an appeal with the ineffective counsel argument?

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I agree we have seen lots of things that Baez has pulled that have disgusted us and have us questioning his ability, but we are talking about what the court, HHJP, and the Bar consider legal.

AZ and others have said over and over again that sleazy behavior does not reach the bar of being removed from a case as long as ICA repeats she is satisfied with her representation.

It is my understanding that it is only this event that will be considered by the legal community as questionable. So if there are any appeals, while I will bow to more experienced opinions, it would only be this particular piece of "evidence" that would be appealable - although it will probably never see the light of day in a court room at ICA's trial.

So I don't think it warrants removing Baez from the case, but as Bill S. says, the bar for Baez will be a lot higher when he is submitting anything at all to the court, than it has been in the past. I think HHJP will have Baez in a lock-step, however I'm assuming the offender is considered innocent until proven guilty - even and especially by the Bar.

So far, we have rumors, a document of a depo, and a lot of assumptions. Not enough to pull Baez. And Baez can't step down even if he wanted to. Rock - meet hard place. :loser:

I appreciate your logic and excellent recap of the current situation. I even tentatively agree with your general conclusion. My only worry is how many elephants can we fit into that Orange County Courtroom? Will they have to build a larger one or are they going to stack them on the railings, hang them on the walls and suspend them from the ceiling? Oh my, I wish I could share the picture in my mind . . . and to think I can't even stand one single elephant in the room with me here at home.

 

[Intermezzo]

So far I haven't seen an answer to this question. Does anyone know the hearing where this allegedly happened?
I have viewed the 04/05/10 hearing again and BC was not present for this.
I'm assuming it would have happened at hearing where BC was present.

QB
I came back to post the answer for you..don't know if it has been..I haven't read the rest of the thread..
I think this is what you are looking for..
I found it in the Tampering thread in TWA's post # 270 ...It was the January 30 2009 Hearing..

Post snipped due to length...
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6079790#post6079790"]Tampering Investigation Who? What? When? Where? We already know why! - Page 11 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

-------------------------

Strawberry, I think I found it finally.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMnvyOdTzDk[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk4GS4rTUZk[/ame]

Four minute mark....Mark Nejame sets out that Baez very inappropriately went around him to contact TES, so this little stunt of the defense has been going on for some time. Strawberry, it is here that Jose Baez tells the court that Mark Nejame is violating ethics by representing mom and pop and then TES. Later in the hearing, Brad rolls up and lets the judge know that what Baez just claimed is NOT CORRECT, his clients assert no such thing! So , it turns out this is one of two, that we know of, times that Jose has went around the lawyer for mom and pop to get what he wants from them!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyy0YuTezqA[/ame]

Here, part seven, is where Brad tells the judge NO , the Anthonys are not claiming any conflict. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aijyVQuLVEA[/ame]

 

[okiedokietoo]

http://www.wftv.com/news/26717189/detail.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Casey Anthony's lead attorney, Jose Baez, was hit with another ethics complaint. This one is so severe, he could lose his ability to practice law if it proves to be true.
WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer says it shouldn't impact Casey's criminal case, because the investigation probably won't be done until after Casey's murder trial is over. The Florida Bar Association might make sure of that so it doesn't affect her trial, but it could affect Baez's credibility with the judge.

*snort*

ETA: "If this is true, other than stealing or being accused of stealing a client's money, there is no more serious charge that a lawyer can face," Sheaffer said.

Also at the above link
"WFTV has confirmed someone, though it's not clear who, has filed a grievance against Jose Baez for allegedly misrepresenting facts to the court"

If not about the issue with BC, then ?

 

[Intermezzo]

OMG....sounds like the kind of guy a parent warns their daughters about! WOW! The best predictor, the very best predictor of someone's future behavior is their past behavior. He lost me at failure to pay child support.

bbm
I agree
He lost me too at failure to pay child support and failure to maintain HEALTH and life insurance on his child.....

 

[Intermezzo]

Cheney Mason, for the love of GOD, take your forty years of experience and step up, officially you are first chair.....act like it. If you are in, be in big and take over. Someone has GOT TO!!! Watching Mrs. Finnel that fist time in a hearing, it seemed to be what she was thinking. I don't want to hear one more word out of Jose at the podium.
In the words of Richard Horsby, "He is a clown. He has become a legal clown."

This is a death penalty trial, step up Mr. Mason and be the dp qualified expert you were brought on to be. Bench Jose, effectively if he cannot literally be removed. This, imo, isn't even a close call.

Didn't the defense or reporters do some sort of survey months ago about the question of does Jose's notoriety precede him and will it affect the jurors?

TWA,
You are going to have to speak LOUDER...Mason keeps saying he has trouble hearing and he's old..

 

[LancelotLink]

Also at the above link
"WFTV has confirmed someone, though it's not clear who, has filed a grievance against Jose Baez for allegedly misrepresenting facts to the court"

If not about the issue with BC, then ?

If I recall correctly, when JS filed a complaint he was one of two persons. Perhaps the second in the first is one in the same? :crazy:

“I believe your partner is not only a liar but incompetent,” NeJame said to Mason. “I'm going to say this in light of what he said to me -- he made up complete and total fabrications.”

 

[spqr]

Yes, there have been several "misrepresentations". Please don't make me list them all. To answer your question what was Mark referring to saying Baez lied....take your pick.

Respectfully snipped...

How about we just make a list of the truthful things he says....that should not take long nor take up too much space. It is very obvious, if JB's lips are moving...he is lying.

 

[Ssejors]

Gosh, JB and CM -- can't even comment on what's for lunch! LMAOROF

http://www.wesh.com/video/26731329/detail.html

LOLZ!!

LOL LOL LOL LOL!!! This was AWESOME!

I find it so hilarious that JB decided to start talking about lunch right then... LOL!!! why not just keep walking. Why not politely say, No comment. Ah ha ha I have watched it 4 times and its still funny!