For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[Deleted member 39678]

I thought the A's admitting to cleaning the car was a given? I already know a body was in that car, imo, but if you want to say someone went on a murder rage using chloroform on their child, and you are using samples from a trunk that has been admittedly cleaned and aired out for hours to prove the case? No wonder they lost because that is absurd!

Hold on a minute. This is the second time you've said that I believe chloroform was used to kill Caylee. For the second time I didn't say that.Cindy only admitted to spraying Febreze in the car and placing drier sheets in the trunk-backseat. Is that cleaning?

 

[Chablis]

How could they have cleaned up the stain and made the trunk look as it did in the photographs? Didn't someone testify that you can't clean human decomp, you have to replace the carpet/trunk liner/whatever? I mean, that fluid is filled with fatty oils, how can someone clean it up?

I dont think any stains are from decomp. I just think the chloroform levels are from whatever they were spraying in the trunk, and we know chloroform can be found in cleaning products, and we know the trunk was aired out. So how can air samples even be considered legit proof? That is so far fetched.

 

[pcrum12]

ETA : all the pieces of discovery are still available here and at many news stations.Tons of threads with hundreds and hundreds of posters opinions after looking at all the discovery,too. It really is worth looking at to understand this case.IMO

Caylee was almost 3 and talking. What do you suppose ICA was going to do when that happened? Or maybe it did happen.Maybe Caylee talked and talked and talked that entire Sunday she was with Cindy.The last day she was alive. ICA had a pretty sweet little gig going on for 2 years and now Caylee could blow it for her.
Or maybe ,just as ICA told Lee ,she's a spiteful B!%@&. Her own grandmother believed she did something to Caylee and said "Maybe Casey hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee" in an LE interview..
Or maybe Caylee cried for Cindy that night and wanted to go to Cindy instead Casey. Maybe Caylee really liked Cindy more because she did things with her,like learning to climb the steps to the pool,swimming and chasing after her while her own mother sits in a chair and laughs. Maybe Casey was sick of hearing Caylee cry for Cindy and that's why she put duct tape over her mouth. :waitasec: Could be? Just a theory.

I have followed this case from day 1. I've read every document. I've scoured through this forum the whole time and probably read nearly every post. I watched every minute of the courtroom drama to include bond hearings, motion hearings, pretrial hearings of every kind. And didn't miss a minute of the Trial. I've watched more TH's than I want to admit. And, I still think IMO this was a accident. Again, JMO and of course respect your as well.

 

[Chablis]

Hold on a minute. This is the second time you've said that I believe chloroform was used to kill Caylee. For the second time I didn't say that.Cindy only admitted to spraying Febreze in the car and placing drier sheets in the trunk-backseat. Is that cleaning?

Maybe there is something lost in translation? When I said, if you are going to say someone killed their child using chloroform, I am referring to the State of Florida, remember their argument? I don't make this personal, attack the post not the poster, thats the rule.

 

[beccalecca1]

Hold on a minute. This is the second time you've said that I believe chloroform was used to kill Caylee. For the second time I didn't say that.Cindy only admitted to spraying Febreze in the car and placing drier sheets in the trunk-backseat. Is that cleaning?

Nope, and neither the Febreeze or Dryer sheets contain chemicals that would equate to chloroform. I still find it hard to believe that off the charts chloroform would be in that car after it was aired out for hours. And, after there was no obvious (with a naked eye) staining of decomposition. I find it more plausible that Cindy used bleach or something along those lines to clean the car.


But, that is just MOO

 

[AnaTeresa]

bbm

I agree with you woof.

When the state rested their case in chief I recall posting, "is that all?"

while less may be more in some cases I think more would have been better here in the SA case in chief.

I think they may have been too focused on strategy and possible cross examination by the defense and points brought up by them...

it is all truly hindsight now however...

we all have our hindsight goggles on... I am sure the State does as well imhoo

That's what really struck me - about both sides, actually. We're taught in law school that anything you say in the opening, anything you assert, must be backed up by evidence during direct/cross. That's what I found rather distasteful about JB, but also where I think the state could have been stronger. You can't just tell the jurors, you have to show them. Really, you have to hammer home the evidence and connect those dots for them. Basically, the concept is that the attorney testifies to a fact, and then a witness ratifies the same fact. You want to make sure they hear the important things twice or more. We're taught to really spoon-feed our theories, because unless you spell it out and connect the dots in the fashion you want, you don't know how the jury will think. You can't predict what they will do, or what they find important. It really has to be spoon fed for most juries.

Hindsight, yes, but I feel like the state really should have hammered away at things far more than they did.

 

[megsy]

I dont think any stains are from decomp. I just think the chloroform levels are from whatever they were spraying in the trunk, and we know chloroform can be found in cleaning products, and we know the trunk was aired out. So how can air samples even be considered legit proof? That is so far fetched.

How do you reconcile that there is no evidence of cleaning products (febreeze doesn't contain chloroform) and even if there was, it couldn't be in such high levels to leave any remains on the carpet since it's so volatile?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Caylee was chloroformed but I'm not understanding your argument either.

 

[pcrum12]

I think GA did have chloroform. Why? It used to be used to clean upholstry on cars in his deposition about the gas cans... he IMO made as weird slip. He said he was the only one that "did the gas" then corrected himself
AND when asked what Caylee was wearing when he last saw her BLACK came out of his mouth first!
Jury pegged him.
moo

IMO I don't think much of the gas comment. I think he was just saying he was the one that used the can to get gas for mowing the lawn. However, I'm intrigued by the color of clothing comment. Black is pretty far from Pink. JMO

 

[beccalecca1]

That's what really struck me - about both sides, actually. We're taught in law school that anything you say in the opening, anything you assert, must be backed up by evidence during direct/cross. That's what I found rather distasteful about JB, but also where I think the state could have been stronger. You can't just tell the jurors, you have to show them. Really, you have to hammer home the evidence and connect those dots for them. Basically, the concept is that the attorney testifies to a fact, and then a witness ratifies the same fact. You want to make sure they hear the important things twice or more. We're taught to really spoon-feed our theories, because unless you spell it out and connect the dots in the fashion you want, you don't know how the jury will think. You can't predict what they will do, or what they find important. It really has to be spoon fed for most juries.

Hindsight, yes, but I feel like the state really should have hammered away at things far more than they did.

ITA

We're talking about lay people who may not understand everything the experts are saying, therefore you really want to get your point across. I think it's completely appropriate for the jury to expect the prosecution to lay it out for them. If they're not laying it out for them, you have to wonder what are they hiding?

And, to expect any less would just equate to lazier prosecutors and lazier LE. If you're going to go after the DP, then you better make sure your case is solid enough for it.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Well, some may have been sold on the smell by power of suggestion? There are many more people involved who have had experience in human decomp who didn't smell anything. I would think everyone involved would've smelled it, not just a select few. And, if (a big IF) GA and the towyard manager truly smelled human decomposition, why didn't either one of them call the police?

I understood the manager to testify that he's had many vehicles with bodies in the car on his lot. When someone manages a lot like that, picks up a vehicle that he believes to have a dead body in it, isn't it required for him to notify the police to either find the owner or open the car up? If that isn't done, isn't that hindering an investigation? Or something like that? This manager was closely involved with LE, why wouldn't he just make a quick call to find out about the car? Or, when GA left with the car why not just mention since he was saying his daughter/granddaughter were missing, mention to LE that the car smelled like decomp? No, instead you wait until you hear the news that the child is missing and the mother is a suspect.... THEN you come clean with this information? And THEN is when LE decided to pick up the vehicle. Not before, when everyone was around the car and should've clearly smelled human decomp.

Ok, I'm not sure if you think all these people were lying or just mistaken. Your response is all over the map. You say some did smell it but should have acted differently. Others said they didn't smell it so the smell wasn't really there.So the ones that did smell it but act the wrong way could still be lying or still mistaken. The ones that didn't smell it are telling the truth and not mistaken.Wow, that was tough but I think I covered it.

 

[Puzzler]

I have followed this case from day 1. I've read every document. I've scoured through this forum the whole time and probably read nearly every post. I watched every minute of the courtroom drama to include bond hearings, motion hearings, pretrial hearings of every kind. And didn't miss a minute of the Trial. I've watched more TH's than I want to admit. And, I still think IMO this was a accident. Again, JMO and of course respect your as well.

I'm curious, do you accept that there was duct tape over Caylee's nose and mouth? And if so, how do you explain that in light of an accident?

 

[beccalecca1]

How do you reconcile that there is no evidence of cleaning products (febreeze doesn't contain chloroform) and even if there was, it couldn't be in such high levels to leave any remains on the carpet since it's so volatile?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Caylee was chloroformed but I'm not understanding your argument either.

Hypothetically, what if Cindy realized that the Febreeze wasn't doing anything for the smell, so she grabbed a bottle of bleach, or maybe even some nice smelling laundry detergent (Tide with Bleach), and dumped it in the trunk and closed it up in hopes of getting rid of the putrid smell. Then, LE confiscated the car, ran air samples and found chloroform. That and the computer searches equated murder to them... but it really could've been something so simple like that.

 

[Chablis]

How do you reconcile that there is no evidence of cleaning products (febreeze doesn't contain chloroform) and even if there was, it couldn't be in such high levels to leave any remains on the carpet since it's so volatile?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Caylee was chloroformed but I'm not understanding your argument either.

I am just saying, the Anthonys aired out that car for hours. How is it logical to get a legit untouched air sample from something thats been contaminated? She says she used Fabreze, but do we know for sure she didn't use a combo of things? I think she used bleach. jmo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Maybe there is something lost in translation? When I said, if you are going to say someone killed their child using chloroform, I am referring to the State of Florida, remember their argument? I don't make this personal, attack the post not the poster, thats the rule.

Excuse me but my post said nothing about chloroform. I will take it personal if you quote my post and talk about something that I've never said.

 

[pcrum12]

Ok, thank you.I wonder why so many thought it smelled like human decomposition in the trunk?
Were they all lying or just mistaken.

Oh I believe that the body was in the trunk.

 

[ijam]

I am just saying, the Anthonys aired out that car for hours. How is it logical to get a legit untouched air sample from something thats been contaminated? She says she used Fabreze, but do we know for sure she didn't use a combo of things? I think she used bleach. jmo

There were Not any bleach stains/spots/discoloration on the trunk carpet

 

[megsy]

Hypothetically, what if Cindy realized that the Febreeze wasn't doing anything for the smell, so she grabbed a bottle of bleach, or maybe even some nice smelling laundry detergent (Tide with Bleach), and dumped it in the trunk and closed it up in hopes of getting rid of the putrid smell. Then, LE confiscated the car, ran air samples and found chloroform. That and the computer searches equated murder to them... but it really could've been something so simple like that.

I hear what you're saying but it doesn't add up for me. There were no bleach stains. Chloroform is volatile. If it came from a cleaning agent and the car was aired out for hours (thus giving the chloroform time to evaporate or whatever it is the chloroform does -I am not a chemist!) how do we explain the high levels?

 

[Chablis]

There were Not any bleach stains/spots/discoloration on the trunk carpet

Very good point. But if the trunk was aired out, how is obtaining a sample as its been contaminated by air and whatever for hours, how is that an accurate example as proof someone killed their child?

 

[pcrum12]

To me, in order to believe that Casey was capable of killing her child because she was learning to speak is, I would have to believe in many other bizarre theories. I don't see someone killing their child because they're learning to speak. Isn't it expected that one day your child will talk? Why wouldn't she just not have the child, have an abortion, or kill the child before when it became clear that her child would one day learn to talk. Seriously, is it not common sense that your child will be talking one day?

And, what exactly was Casey trying to hide so much that she didn't want little Caylee tattling on her for? That she was out dating? That she didn't have a job? Come on! Casey lied to her parents about her pregnancy and I would think that's an even bigger lie then that she's not really working. And, she was stealing money left and right, I hope Casey would've realized that she wasn't that great about lying on the job thing. And the dating thing. If we believe Cindy truly gave her space so she could solidify a relationship with Jeffrey Hopkins, why would Casey kill her child so she could actually solidify a relationship with Tony? He didn't appear to be that bad of a guy, and it appeared like he liked Caylee. I'm sure Cindy would've accepted Tony if this didn't happen.
And, Casey took Caylee with her everywhere when her mom didn't babysit. And, her mom didn't babysit often enough for me to consider her a neglectful mother just trying to toss her daughter off on her parents. I've seen people like this with my own 2 eyes, and Casey didn't once appear to me as someone who thought her child was a burden. Yes, she made one comment that I know of calling her child a snot nose brat (or something like that), but one comment? She also made a comment to a friend about her daughter pooping in the potty.
To me, Casey would've been happy of the relationship Caylee had with Cindy. Keep in mind, Caylee didn't have other grandparents, other aunts and uncles, other family members in her life. Cindy was the grandmother, and that was that. Casey would've been grateful for her to be in Caylee's life. There was no other family there for Caylee, no other grandmom. I don't think Casey would get pissed and kill her child over some jealousy. Why not just take Caylee away from the family to 'show Cindy'?

Agree with the BBM

 

[gngr~snap]

There were Not any bleach stains/spots/discoloration on the trunk carpet

Bottom line whoever did what they had a month to take care of it enough so that we are here today :waitasec: our heads. A nurse and a cop = no evidence JUST like CA said.~ well not enough