For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[beccalecca1]

I'm not sure what you mean. Her "story" was more important than a dead snake picture, but she got less money.Yes, that's what happened.Why, I don't know. I wouldn't pay 15 cents for a dead snake picture.

Her "story" was worth more in the sense of the Media's mind. Who has the juiciest story?? KH does! But, wait, she sells out to NE for $4K, and that's it? She didn't continue to milk the story and make television appearances all over?

Nope. That sounds like someone who wasn't in it for the money. And, wasn't $4K about the amount of money she claimed to have loaned GA to begin with?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Her "story" was worth more in the sense of the Media's mind. Who has the juiciest story?? KH does! But, wait, she sells out to NE for $4K, and that's it? She didn't continue to milk the story and make television appearances all over?

Nope. That sounds like someone who wasn't in it for the money. And, wasn't $4K about the amount of money she claimed to have loaned GA to begin with?

Hey, I don't know why she didn't get more money.She needed a better agent? She gave George more than that I think.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

This criminologist, and I'm sure all criminologists and most people in general, would disagree with Dr. G's unilateral "100%" assertion:

“It is not simply that it is a toddler’s death,” said Franklin E. Zimring, a criminologist and law professor at the University of California, Berkeley. “It is that it’s a toddler’s unreported death. Whether it is accidental, intentional or something in between, when the death of somebody that young goes unreported to the authorities, the lack of reporting suggests that this is intimately linked to events involving the custodial parent. Sometimes it’s abuse. Sometimes it’s neglect. Sometimes it’s an accident.”
.
.
.
She recalled an Ohio case where a child died of a fever because the mother and stepfather did not take the child to a hospital. The mother agreed not to report the death, but wanted the body nearby, so they hid it in a crawlspace of the house.

[LINK]

You can nit pick about involving drowning, but the premise that in a toddlers accidental death its always reported, or that 911 is called 100% of the time is not only a non-scientific, non-expert opinion - its inaccurate

Noting the lack of drowning criteria is not a nitpick. In drownings it is particularly well known people can be resuscitated. Casey was not an incompetent. Caylee was healthy, so presumably the family, including Casey, made sure to give her medical care when she needed it. It shouldn't be Casey's instinct to not get help, unless she willfully did not want to help.

ETA: IF the drowning story is true...its possible GA did attempt CPR (based on the defense story that Casey met him outside holding Caylee's body), and determined there was nothing that could be done to revive her.

This doesn't answer the point of 100% of people calling 911. That 100% would assuredly include people who tried on their own to give aid. Particularly, if there's two people on the scene, as you just hypothesized, then it makes it easier for one to call while the other tries to help.

 

[GracieLu]

Not so far fetched as you seem to think IMO. When my grandson was 3 years old we were all outside in the front yard the pool was in the backyard. IIRC we were all swimming earlier and had not taken the ladder out of the pool. Just by luck I looked through the garage just in time to see him jump into the pool. No life jacket, no swimming vest. He had been told never ever to go near the pool without an adult but he did. He loved to swim. If I had not happened to look when I did, God only knows what could've happened. Yes if we did find him floating in the pool we certainly would've called 911 however we are NOT CA who through testimony was said not to handle things well. We also would not have thrown him away in a swamp.

I do think the drowning could've/did happen however I think it was more than a few minutes that she was in that pool. I am thinking it may have been a couple of hours, Casey panicked (that's why all of the calls in that time period) and just didn't know what to do. When her parents didn't answer I think CA did what CA had always done.

Bolded by me....

-Thank god you looked when you did, your grandson is so lucky to have such a WONDERFUL grandma!

-Im not so sure "through" testimony I got "she didn't handle things well." I took it more to mean - she hid things well (i.e. liar). Didn't she tell someone "Im such a good liar" and, if you look at it another way, she sure did act like someone who was happy to be rid of her child.

-As far as the "flury" of calls on the 16th that were unanswered by GA and CA, I believe they knew why she was calling, and that's why they didn't answer...

Here's what I think happened... I think RM's myspace joke set the ball in motion (unintentionally of course, but none the less ICA saw it and went as far as googling "how to make chloroform"). RM testified that ICA was a good mother, no problems, other than getting Caylee to go to sleep. In ICA's sick mind she looked up chloroform and found that it is relatively cheap and easy to make. She made chloroform initially to get Caylee to sleep faster! On the 15th ICA and CA had a big fight about grandma's money. CA tells ICA "no more, you stole from grandma, we know you dont have a job, you're on your own!" Maybe in a fit of anger she said something to the effect of "NO MORE BABYSITTING CAYLEE!" ICA leaves for work on Friday, telling GA Caylee is going to Zanny's (when there is no Zanny and no friends lined up to watch Caylee while she has a date planned with TL). ICA comes back home after GA leaves, calls CA and GA several times hours later ("flury of calls") because Zanny couldn't babysit afterall because (insert lie here). CA and GA do not answer the calls, but why? The only explaination I can come up with is because THEY KNEW WHY SHE WAS CALLING! She needed something and they weren't giving in this time! In a fit of rage, ICA chloroforms Caylee, throws on duct tape, and no more worries about what mommy and daddy might do, or not do, because she doesn't need them anymore....

I know this has nothing to do with evidence, I just like my theory, LOL!

and again, WHAT A WONDERFUL GRANDMA YOU ARE!!!!! :great:

 

[Just Jayla]

Bolded by me....

-Thank god you looked when you did, your grandson is so lucky to have such a WONDERFUL grandma!

-Im not so sure "through" testimony I got "she didn't handle things well." I took it more to mean - she hid things well (i.e. liar). Didn't she tell someone "Im such a good liar" and, if you look at it another way, she sure did act like someone who was happy to be rid of her child.

-As far as the "flury" of calls on the 16th that were unanswered by GA and CA, I believe they knew why she was calling, and that's why they didn't answer...

Here's what I think happened... I think RM's myspace joke set the ball in motion (unintentionally of course, but none the less ICA saw it and went as far as googling "how to make chloroform"). RM testified that ICA was a good mother, no problems, other than getting Caylee to go to sleep. In ICA's sick mind she looked up chloroform and found that it is relatively cheap and easy to make. She made chloroform initially to get Caylee to sleep faster! On the 15th ICA and CA had a big fight about grandma's money. CA tells ICA "no more, you stole from grandma, we know you dont have a job, you're on your own!" Maybe in a fit of anger she said something to the effect of "NO MORE BABYSITTING CAYLEE!" ICA leaves for work on Friday, telling GA Caylee is going to Zanny's (when there is no Zanny and no friends lined up to watch Caylee while she has a date planned with TL). ICA comes back home after GA leaves, calls CA and GA several times hours later ("flury of calls") because Zanny couldn't babysit afterall because (insert lie here). CA and GA do not answer the calls, but why? The only explaination I can come up with is because THEY KNEW WHY SHE WAS CALLING! She needed something and they weren't giving in this time! In a fit of rage, ICA chloroforms Caylee, throws on duct tape, and no more worries about what mommy and daddy might do, or not do, because she doesn't need them anymore....

I know this has nothing to do with evidence, I just like my theory, LOL!

and again, WHAT A WONDERFUL GRANDMA YOU ARE!!!!! :great:

Actually, you addressed the evidence more thoughtfully in this 2 minute read than the jury did during their whole time at trial.

 

[GracieLu]

Even if George said to KH, "It was an accident that snowballed" she can't tell from that whether he meant he believed or knew it. She even said she didn't not question him about it, so he did not clarify it to her.

And if you combine that quote with the other quote attributed to GA by KH, that he threw CMA against the wall and demanded answers, then it's clear KH does not help CMA (though that was not allowed in court).

bolded by me....

I totally agree with what you said! and am going to add, (hope it is okay) - how in the world could she not question him about this after he said it? She initially met the Anthony's because she was volunteering to help find their missing granddaughter. She was supposedly having an affair with GA (so im assuming this means they shared a lot of personal things) yet GA says something like this (about the missing baby you have voluntered to help locate) and you don't question him about it? WHAT? WHAT? WHAT? I think KH/RC is all about the money, imo!

and excuse my spelling mistakes, too tired to spell check,,,

 

[gngr~snap]

It would be easier to drown a 2 y old in a tub, but outside in the backyard? KC was too lazy! Unless they were swimming already...She would have to hoist Caylee in then fish her out... from the bottom I might add. KC was kinda small she'd probably have to actually get in and grab her. Which could account for the ladder that WAS down when she tossed Caylee in being put BACK up in order for her to enter the pool, and KC forgot to take it down... KC would risk someone hearing something unless the duct tape was on. And that's all she really needed. I firmly believe KC would have called 911 if it was an accident she sure knew that # well when she came home from jail. The flurries started around 4:00. that's quite a cleanup with water and clothes... guess she tossed them in her car. maybe the calls were BEFORE she did the deed.
accident maybe- but IMO KC made murder look like murder.
I say she is guilty... unless she was not there.
something happened to Caylee Sunday night after KC took off. GA placed Caylee in casey's bed alone at 11:30pm. KC and her car were gone.
KC guilty, but as a juror too many possibilities still exsist to convict her of anything. Not one of the family members had the same story from on police interview to the next, and not a one of them stood up for Caylee and did the right thing.
jmo.

 

[GracieLu]

Actually, you addressed the evidence more thoughtfully in this 2 minute read than the jury did during their whole time at trial.

thank you very much.... love your dog pic, profile name, and all your posts by the way.... i've been catching up on WS for 3 years now and I always look forward to what you have to say!

 

[beccalecca1]

I say she is guilty... unless she was not there.
something happened to Caylee Sunday night after KC took off. GA placed Caylee in casey's bed alone at 11:30pm. KC and her car were gone.
KC guilty, but as a juror too many possibilities still exsist to convict her of anything. Not one of the family members had the same story from on police interview to the next, and not a one of them stood up for Caylee and did the right thing.
jmo.

I haven't read anything about the Sunday night and GA stating Caylee was in bed alone. Where can I find that?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I haven't read anything about the Sunday night and GA stating Caylee was in bed alone. Where can I find that?

I'd like an answer to your question to. Never heard about any of this before.

 

[goldenlover]

Not so far fetched as you seem to think IMO. When my grandson was 3 years old we were all outside in the front yard the pool was in the backyard. IIRC we were all swimming earlier and had not taken the ladder out of the pool. Just by luck I looked through the garage just in time to see him jump into the pool. No life jacket, no swimming vest. He had been told never ever to go near the pool without an adult but he did. He loved to swim. If I had not happened to look when I did, God only knows what could've happened.

Yes if we did find him floating in the pool we certainly would've called 911 however we are NOT CA who through testimony was said not to handle things well. We also would not have thrown him away in a swamp.

I do think the drowning could've/did happen however I think it was more than a few minutes that she was in that pool. I am thinking it may have been a couple of hours, Casey panicked (that's why all of the calls in that time period) and just didn't know what to do. When her parents didn't answer I think CA did what CA had always done.

I don't think the drowning is so far fetched either. It could explain the frantic calls she made to GA and CA..if they would have answered and helped her at that moment, we may not be here discussing this now.
It very well could have been a tragic accident. That is why the jury had to vote as they did, there was no other alternative.

 

[gngr~snap]

thank you very much.... love your dog pic, profile name, and all your posts by the way.... i've been catching up on WS for 3 years now and I always look forward to what you have to say!

But to me even (not a grandma yet) though they "knew" why she was calling, after the third one I'd answer worrying that something HAD happened to Caylee at the sitters or something. or at least call hubby and say have ya talked to the wench? Has she called you too? CA never even called her back that night say after 9:00 to check in. I see you called 8000 times what did you need?
I do not get that. CA knew Casey was not a "good mom" in fact just the day before she was a horrible mom and today she trusts her, she is only calling for me to babysit?- Where the heck was KC headed at 12:50 - the babysitter & she was staying the night! Why and HOW are they so sure the calls are not about Caylee OR LEE!
ugh
still can't fault Casey 100%
Caylee knew CA and GA were her rock.
GA knew KC lived on the edge.
Just proves to me at that time Caylee was not front and center on their minds and for a grand baby that has always lived with you she should have been and there is SOME reason she wasn't that day.
let mom walk she'll have another and nothing in that house will change i'm sure.
The barrage of calls IMO shows she may have tried to get someone for something.
too much doubt in there for my taste.
but I get why others see none too.
GA CA not answering shows me they weren't THAT concerned about anyone at the time.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't think the drowning is so far fetched either. It could explain the frantic calls she made to GA and CA..if they would have answered and helped her at that moment, we may not be here discussing this now.
It very well could have been a tragic accident. That is why the jury had to vote as they did, there was no other alternative.

Were was the frantic call to 911.The people who would have answered the 911 call would have helped.That basic fact has been taught to children for years now.I'm sure KC was taught that at an early age.

 

[Peepers]

I believe RC, I think she originally lied to protect GA. I think she cared for him and he used her. It doesnt bother me she got paid for her story, she lost money to George, lol.
Right or wrong everyone gets paid for their story, I dont think that necessarily makes her less credible.

 

[gngr~snap]

I haven't read anything about the Sunday night and GA stating Caylee was in bed alone. Where can I find that?

I'd like an answer to your question to. Never heard about any of this before.

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-na...rge-anthony-s-prosecution-deposition-august-5
pgs 146-150(51)
after GA talks about Caylee in the bed he answers specifically Casey was not home I think pg 147??
here ya go.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I believe RC, I think she originally lied to protect GA. I think she cared for him and he used her. It doesnt bother me she got paid for her story, she lost money to George, lol.
Right or wrong everyone gets paid for their story, I dont think that necessarily makes her less credible.

Thanks . So you agree with Krystal Holloway's statement to LE which says "He.. he just said that,I really BELIEVE that it was an accident. And it just went wrong and she tried to cover it up."

 

[Tricia]

OK Websleuths Members,

We need your help with a case of a missing woman that is going ON NOW.

Michelle Le has vanished. Searchers from KlaasKids are going in today and tomorrow (Friday and Saturday) to search.

WE NEED LUNCH FOR TODAY (FRIDAY) FOR THE SEARCHERS. Please click on this thread for more details.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144508"]SPOTLIGHT CASE CA - We Really Need Your Help !!!!!Michelle Le Search July 15th and 16th. !!! - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


IT HAS BEEN EXTREMELY HARD TO GET INTEREST IN THE SEARCH FOR MICHELLE THIS TIME. I THINK IT'S BECAUSE OF THE ANTHONY CASE. PEOPLE ARE BURNED OUT ON THE MISSING AND MURDERED


ALL THE INFO ABOUT THE SEARCH AND THE FOOD DONATIONS ARE AT THE LINK.

THANK YOU SO VERY VERY MUCH,
Tricia

 

[GracieLu]

But to me even (not a grandma yet) though they "knew" why she was calling, after the third one I'd answer worrying that something HAD happened to Caylee at the sitters or something. or at least call hubby and say have ya talked to the wench? Has she called you too? CA never even called her back that night say after 9:00 to check in. I see you called 8000 times what did you need?
I do not get that. CA knew Casey was not a "good mom" in fact just the day before she was a horrible mom and today she trusts her, she is only calling for me to babysit?- Where the heck was KC headed at 12:50 - the babysitter & she was staying the night! Why and HOW are they so sure the calls are not about Caylee OR LEE!
ugh
still can't fault Casey 100%
Caylee knew CA and GA were her rock.
GA knew KC lived on the edge.
Just proves to me at that time Caylee was not front and center on their minds and for a grand baby that has always lived with you she should have been and there is SOME reason she wasn't that day.
let mom walk she'll have another and nothing in that house will change i'm sure.
The barrage of calls IMO shows she may have tried to get someone for something.
too much doubt in there for my taste.
but I get why others see none too.
GA CA not answering shows me they weren't THAT concerned about anyone at the time.

bolded by me.... that's exactly what I don't get.... My mom calls when Im in the shower and if I don't answer she will continue to call until I do pick up (omgosh we have so many arguments about me being a "grown up" and not to panic if i don't pick up the phone right away, lol).... anyway, my thoughts (which are just as valid as yours of course) are that they new why she was calling and didn't pick it up on purpose....

i think what you are saying is that Caylee could have died the night before
and that's as good a theory as mine!!!! I don't think we will ever know the truth but aside from theories, i do believe the evidence (including the 31 days) points to one person only, ICA, and one thing only, murder!

hope Im not offending anyone, it's getting late here and Im getting post loopy, lol

 

[gngr~snap]

I believe RC, I think she originally lied to protect GA. I think she cared for him and he used her. It doesnt bother me she got paid for her story, she lost money to George, lol.
Right or wrong everyone gets paid for their story, I dont think that necessarily makes her less credible.

I can see her lying when questioned and telling the truth on the stand....

Thanks . So you agree with Krystal Holloway's statement to LE which says "He.. he just said that,I really BELIEVE that it was an accident. And it just went wrong and she tried to cover it up."

I wonder if she wasn't parroting Yuri Melich? We only heard those tapes ... well a lot! ~ it's so vague too. She didn't say he said " Caylee's death was"... did she? It's late, my brain is fried...

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I can see her lying when questioned and telling the truth on the stand....


I wonder if she wasn't parroting Yuri Melich? We only heard those tapes ... well a lot! ~ it's so vague too. She didn't say he said " Caylee's death was"... did she? It's late, my brain is fried...

I don't understand the Yuri Melich comment.If your trying to be funny its not working.