For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[beccalecca1]

I'm sorry to have to ask but what does this mean? Specifically " the German's human decomposition"

The scientist they referred to that was also doing studies on human decomposition. He found 80+ chemicals linked to human decomposition. Out of the 80+ chemicals he has found (and Vass/Furton both find him credible), there was only 1 chemical in the trunk that was the same. I don't like those odds.

 

[beccalecca1]

But you said there was evidence. None of this is evidence that Caylee drowned.

This is evidence that it's not ridiculous to think that it happened. This is evidence that the jury could use in their deliberations. This is, IMO, reasonable doubt.

 

[Black Water]

This question is for those that agree with the not guilty verdicts. Please help me understand.

In your opinion, how did the state not convince you? What other info would you need to convict? Do you believe the drowning theory? What do you think really happened? Do you believe Casey did it and just that the State did not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt? How to you explain away the 31 days? The lying? The partying? What was the reason for the duct tape?

I am just trying to understand. I hear the defense talking heads saying simply that the state did not prove their case, but they have no explained how or why or what they think really happened.

In my opinion there is other motive if she is guilty. I was not sold on the theory that super smart Casey thought she could get away with murder.
If she did kill her daughter I would need (with the other evidence not being iron clad for a planned murder) a better motive and would be inclinded to think this was not planned in advance. Something done in the heat of passion and anger to her mother OR in some twisted mind a way to protect her daughter because her mother threatened to take Caylee from her. But the idea that she just wanted to party? Seems to me she knew she was headed to jail. Seems to me the only plan she had was to go to jail.

How do I explain the 31 days? Timer 55 to me is the days she has till she has to produce Caylee to her mother or tell her mother what happened to Caylee.
Probably could represent the end of her freedom. Either she is guilty but not of planning this all out the way the state claims (that seems ridiculous to me)
or this was indeed some accident that she reacted to with denial. How hard is that to believe? Not hard for me. When I listened to some of the jail tapes how she says we are going to get our little girl back and she is going to be
JUST AS SHE WAS??? If her parents believe she is innocent why would they think they would get her back any other way? Is Casey just convincing Casey? The state said she put her in the trunk and forgot about her. Exactly.
Hit the nail on the head with that one and who else could do that but a person heavy in denial? If this was planned then super smart Casey would not be getting shovels from neighbors to bury her baby in her own back yard.
Tossing or burying her (and it seems like the area was marked by pavers?)
so near her own home. Super Smart Casey would have used one of their own shovels and driven to a remote area and buried her where she would never have been found.

The 31 days mean nothing because Caylee was dead. She did not wait 31 days to report a missing child. As a matter of fact Casey never did really report her child missing, it was Cindy. Casey knew her baby was dead..

The Lying??? To me a change in behavior indicates guilt but Casey already lied all the time and therefore what else would anyone expect? For her to all of a sudden start telling the truth? To me it means nothing. But she was charged with it. She did get 4 years for lying and has paid for that crime.

The Partying?? Well, Casey could not go home without her daughter. She was just going along and doing what the people she stayed with did. Who knows when her denial was strong and when it was not. This is of course not normal behavior in any way but it does not make her guilty of murder and for sure I do not see it as a motive for murder. The one girl said Caylee could talk and hold a conversation so that theory does not hold water about Caylee was going to talk. I think George at least already knew Casey was not working. Maybe Cindy did as well but hey don't rock the boat and do not be negative. If Casey wanted to party she would have found a way just as she had done in the past.

The duck tape? Well the heart sticker leads me to think she put it on after to keep out flys who we learned doing trial go for the mouth and nose first and also that is where the decomp fluid comes out. Undertakers before thy embalm have thingys they put in the nose holes and over the mouth for that very reason. If nobody can buy that theory then maybe the tape was on the bag and early on critters got into the bag and the skull rolled onto still stick duck tape that caught it onto the hair and manidble or my favorite maybe Roy Kronk who we have heard his son told him both before and after he reported the remains found that he needed to tell the truth. That he could be helping the murderer get away with a crime. Maybe Roy wanted to do the opposite since he himself had hidden away (so nobody else would find) this skull cause he wanted the reward. So maybe the tape was there having been on the bag........we have heard how the pets were buried and all tape was used to seal the bag. Perhaps that tape was simply rearranged.

Do I think she is guilty? Not of anything the state charged and not with the lame motive they used. But the Jury was 6 to 6 on the intentional manslaughter charge. Any lawyers here know what the next charge down would be and what sentence that would carry for Casey? Seems like they could have got a conviction on that charge. Whatever it may be.

 

[beccalecca1]

And why is that not reasonable doubt. My opinion is that first of all this was not a search for the truth and true motives were not explored. I guess the family was just not going to share the events of the night that Casey left with Caylee as Grund has told the new that Lee Anthony shared with him.
Jose Argues that Caylee had no shoes on and therefore was at home. I would say that since Caylee had a shirt on that he grandmother had NEVER seen and shorts that were old and never worn, those were items Casey kept in her car. That at some point she changed Caylee into those out of her P.J s if indeed they did leave the night of the 15th after a heated arguement where Cindy had Casey by the throat. I notice how Cindy portrayed the night of the 15th, with her and Casey watching video's of her greatgrandpa who was near death and how Casey cried with her mother. That is a far cry from Cindy confronting Casey about her stealing from this grandpa's assisted living fund and this situation escalating to the point where Cindy had Casey by the throat. Cindy to me does not seem stable in the least and did Caylee get to witness her mother being strangled in this manner? How often did this go on?
What reason does Grund have to make it up? Grund also talking about how Cindy came into the room when he was over and attacked Casey about when she was going to pay her back for the hospital bills? Why did Cindy even pay the bills? In what world does a registered nurse not know that an unemployed 19 year old only has to fill out some paperwork to have those bills paid for by the state???? Instead she wants her young daughter to start out parenting with this kind of large dept on her shoulders? Cindy I submit has all kinds of motives and many of them do seem to be in the worst intrest of Casey.

Back to the outfit. Either Caylee and Casey never did come home before Caylee died OR after she knew George was gone, Casey and Caylee came home. Where were they the night before? Did Casey not have a place to go and parked somewhere getting no sleep while Caylee got plenty setting up a situation for the next day when Casey fell asleep, the ladder was up and the baby got into the pool? It is enough doubt for me.

The defense I submit knew the deal that George did not know what Caylee was wearing when he says he saw them on the 17th because George never did see them on the 17th. I submit he lied because of the events of the previous night. Which must have been so volitle that he even being her dad thought it created motive and would help the prosecution if it was reveled in court that Casey took Caylee and left that night after this violent altercation with her mother. So, the defense took full advantage of that and it did make GA look like a liar.

I find it hard to believe that Casey would put shorts on Caylee that didn't fit. Casey would know what size clothing her daughter wears. And, I find it hard to believe that shorts that she outgrew months ago were still sitting in Casey's car, since up until the 16th Casey and Caylee spent every day in that home.

 

[beccalecca1]

What would it equate to? Are you serious?

I don't know... a kidnapping gone wrong? It doesn't link Casey to murdering her child. I should've been more specific in that post.

 

[pcrum12]

Thank you for pulling up the video :seeya:
Around the 29 min mark JA refers to a note GA sent her saying he had been trying to reach her and left several messages for her with her daughter,security and her husband. She gets fidgety and instead of answering she says "I'm not married sir" .But of course JA goes on to show why GA would use the term husband.
Immediately after to about 33,JA impeaches KH aka RC,with the statement she made to LE under oath ,that she and GA DID NOT have an affair.

And can I just add how truthful she appears when JA questions her about her changing story and the timeline of selling it to the National Enquirer? She just screams of someone with honor and character (Not)

Immediately following is the exchange when JA refers back to her statement to LE under oath,when she told them GA said "I really believe it was an accident and things went wrong and she tried to cover it up".
Now this is where KH aka RC ,gets combative.

So GA is the liar and guilty of something.He was combative with JB so he must be guilty.

Krystal Holloway,who also goes by the name of River Cruz (nothing hinky about that ) is impeached by her previous sworn statement ,becomes angry and combative with JA during that exchange (isn't that what is being said about GA?) is the person that is believed . I guess changing her story when she got an offer from the National Inquirer is no reason for concern to anyone trying to get to the truth. Nothing hinky there.:crazy:

So George is the one they thought was lying and this <unusual person> was believable. :waitasec:

You do make some valid points. She flat out said that GA knew she was in a relationship. They were both cheaters! She obviously isn't anymore trustworthy in that sense than GA. But she still came across like she was coming clean in a sense. She came across more honest than him. And she doesn't have a daughter standing accused of murdering her own daughter. His character and demeanor is a heck of alot more important than hers. His daughter is fighting for her life FGS.

The text he sent her, Thinking of you, I need you in my life. Now I don't know about you but if that was my husband texting another woman, I'd pretty much figure somethings going on. Add to that him going over to her house multiple times while his wife thinks he is out looking for a job to "comfort" her. Sorry, If they didn't have an affair, he sure was trying too IMO.

I do believe he made the statement just as KH stated. When JA had her read the part that had "believe it was" or "think it was", she clearly pointed out that HIS statement to her was before that line and what he had her read was her words not GA's. It's certainly possible that she was looking for her 15 minutes of fame. But to me she appeared truthful. And she didn't want to admit the affair but once the media learned of it she did go back to investigators and told them the truth. I guess if she got paid for the NE article she figured it was compensation for the money GA took from her lol. Regardless, the affair didn't mean squat to me.

However, his combativeness about the duct tape, chasing Casey (or not), june 24th gas can incident, driving the car home and going to work after smelling the smell of death, some of the recorded jailhouse conversation with Casey, very weird and which gas cans shenanigans with JB did make him look suspicious. Something with his demeanor throughout from JUNE to July on to the present is off. Something not right. All of course is just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Snipped

I saw reports, or interviews, or something like that, stating she changed her name because she was in a highly abusive relationship in New York. When she fled to FL, she changed her name so the guy couldn't find her.

If that's true she would have been better off really changing her name instead of using an alias. But, then again she didn't seem so sharp so maybe your right.MOO.

 

[Phoebeb]

The scientist they referred to that was also doing studies on human decomposition. He found 80+ chemicals linked to human decomposition. Out of the 80+ chemicals he has found (and Vass/Furton both find him credible), there was only 1 chemical in the trunk that was the same. I don't like those odds.

Are we talking trunk air or trunk carpet sample?

 

[pcrum12]

I did all of the above, and I believe the state failed to prove Caylee was murdered. While you feel insulted, I must point out that it is insulting to think that those who believe there was reasonable doubt did NOT follow the evidence, hearings and trial. Some of us did. And we STILL think there is reasonable doubt!!
Speaking for myself only, I always assume innocence until evidence proves otherwise. While I may "feel" that Casey is responsible for Caylee's death, I KNOW that the evidence allows for reasonable doubt. The FBI reports on the trunk point out that all of their findings DO NOT MEAN that a human being was decomposing in that trunk. There was DNA on the duct tape that did not belong to Caylee, Casey OR the lab worker. I've got more reasons than this, but time is short, and I have listed several reasons several times.


It is tough to be on a jury. I think everyone who has served on a jury knows the level of responsibility one feels when the fate of another is in your hands.

This is not the first case that the jury felt one way and decided another, based on the law. God bless you for your service!



It is never good to use the words "never, always, or 100%" in testimony. Dr. G, while I tend to agree with her on most things, honestly doesn't know how many accidental drownings are not reported, because she only sees the ones that ARE reported.



I agree that most families are disfunctional, but honestly, this one family sorta stands out in the crowd. I think that they may be in the "upper" end of the bell curve.



THANK YOU! I've tried to say this before, but never spelled it right out like you've done. There was UNIDENTIFIED Dna on the tape, not Caylee's, not Casey's, not the lab worker's.

Thanks you! Great Post! I too have been on this ride for 3 yrs and feel a little insulted when others just assume I didn't read the docs, the charges, the jury instructions, etc., and the fact is that the jury came back with the only verdict they could BASED ON THE LAW.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The scientist they referred to that was also doing studies on human decomposition. He found 80+ chemicals linked to human decomposition. Out of the 80+ chemicals he has found (and Vass/Furton both find him credible), there was only 1 chemical in the trunk that was the same. I don't like those odds.

Wow. No wonder I was confused.I believe your talking about Dr. Statheropoulos. He's Greek.In fact he was referred to as the "Greek Guy" at times because his name was difficult to pronounce.
And only one chemical in the trunk was the same?I guess I'll have to look that up, but I thought it was more.

 

[beccalecca1]

Are we talking trunk air or trunk carpet sample?

Didn't Vass have both?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

So for those who think GA may have been the caregiver, would this testimony by Tracy Conroy have made a difference? I feel she should have been called as a witness.

Conroy also described a heated encounter between George and Casey on her first night in the home. In her notes, she wrote, &#8220;My first night at the Anthony home, I awoke to George and Casey arguing. He had started questioning her. I really couldn't make out much of their conversation until he exploded, screaming, 'Don't *ing lie to me anymore! I am sick of your *ing lies! You have to know where she is! What did you do with her?'&#8221;
Her notes continued, &#8220;She told him to quit acting like a *ing cop' and that he need to 'act like a father,'&#8221; according to Dimond.

http://m.examiner.com/examiner/pm_60959/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=7dUsKYej

 

[beccalecca1]

Wow. No wonder I was confused.I believe your talking about Dr. Statheropoulos. He's Greek.In fact he was referred to as the "Greek Guy" at times because his name was difficult to pronounce.
And only one chemical in the trunk was the same?I guess I'll have to look that up, but I thought it was more.

Yes! Sorry, I got the nickname wrong, I knew it started with a G and I didn't want to attempt his name. Everytime I wrote German I kept thinking I was wrong, but no one said anything before so I assumed I was right. Thanks for clearing that up.

Anyways, yes, if you watch Vass' and Furton's testimony, it's pointed out in both. It's more specific in Furton's testimony, since this was the DT witness and I believe this is part of the reason they brought him on the stand.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

This is evidence that it's not ridiculous to think that it happened. This is evidence that the jury could use in their deliberations. This is, IMO, reasonable doubt.

Just because somethings are possible doesn't make it fact.The jury should have deliberated on the evidence presented to them. Not on mere possibilities.

 

[beccalecca1]

So for those who think GA may have been the caregiver, would this testimony by Tracy Convoy have made a difference? I feel she should have been called as a witness.



http://m.examiner.com/examiner/pm_60959/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=7dUsKYej

I think that's Tracy McLaughlin actually. I don't remember a Convoy in the case.

 

[beccalecca1]

Just because somethings are possible doesn't make it fact.The jury should have deliberated on the evidence presented to them. Not on mere possibilities.

Whenever the words "reasonable doubt" are used you must consider the following:
A reasonable doubt is not a mere possible doubt, a speculative, imaginary or forced doubt. Such a doubt must not influence you to return a verdict of not guilty if you have an abiding conviction of guilt. On the other hand, if, after carefully considering, comparing and weighing all the evidence, there is not an abiding conviction of guilt, or, if, having a conviction, it is one which is not stable but one which wavers and vacillates, then the charge is not proved beyond every reasonable doubt and you must find the defendant not guilty because the doubt is reasonable. It is to the evidence introduced in this trial, and to it alone, that you are to look for that proof. A reasonable doubt as to the guilt of the defendant may arise from the evidence, conflict in the evidence or the lack of evidence. If you have a reasonable doubt, you should find the defendant not guilty. If you have no reasonable doubt, you should find the defendant guilty.

Quoted from another poster.

The pictures and testimony of the child-proof precautions used in the house is evidence.

IMO, the jury weighed the evidence of murder (which did not link Casey to murdering her child) and the evidence of an accident. They weighed the conflicting testimonies. They came up with the best verdict they could, given their instructions.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think that's Tracy McLaughlin actually. I don't remember a Convoy in the case.

Tracey McLaughlin is the same person as Tracy Conroy. One of her last names is her maiden name I believe. Not an alias like River Cruz/Krystal Holloway.

 

[beccalecca1]

Tracey McLaughlin is the same person as Tracy Conroy. One of her last names is her maiden name I believe. Not an alias like River Cruz/Krystal Holloway.

Thanks, I don't remember ever hearing that name... always McLaughlin.

 

[Phoebeb]

I think that's Tracy McLaughlin actually. I don't remember a Convoy in the case.

She also goes by Tracy Conroy.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Quoted from another poster.

The pictures and testimony of the child-proof precautions used in the house is evidence.

IMO, the jury weighed the evidence of murder (which did not link Casey to murdering her child) and the evidence of an accident. They weighed the conflicting testimonies. They came up with the best verdict they could, given their instructions.

Ok. You believe that since a drowning was possible, without any evidence to support that theory,the jury should come to the conclusion that is what actually happened.I think maybe they did. Evidence Caylee got into the pool by herself is what? A picture of her in the pool with Cindy?A picture of her at the sliding door that may have been already open? Testimony from River Cruz saying George BELIEVED it was an accident and Casey tried to cover it up? Not much evidence.