France - Explosions and shooting in Paris, 13 November 2015 #2

[bessie]

Just heard on CNN that 15 states are now refusing
Syrian refugees.

Bobby Jindal seeks to forbid Syrian refugees in Louisiana

Gov. Bobby Jindal issued an executive order Monday (Nov. 16) to prevent Syrian refugees from being resettled in Louisiana. He cited Friday's terrorist attacks that killed 129 people in Paris and injured hundreds more.

Jindal, who is running as a right-wing candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, cited a section of the Louisiana Constitution that says "during times of emergency ... the governor has emergency powers to protect the citizens and property of the state of Louisiana.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index....yria_refugees_ss.html#incart_most_shared-news

http://www.nola.com/politics/index....l_war_refugees_in_3.html#incart_story_package

Currently, 14 Syrian refugees have arrived in Louisiana since the beginning of the year. Thirteen are in New Orleans.

 

[Hatfield]

Yeh, a bunch of kids living in their mom's basement ought to solve this, the arrogance of the so called 'Anonymous' group knows no bounds IMO.

Years ago that may have been the case but nowadays this group is a formidable threat to anyone they target as far as able to bring down their website or change it to different content.

This particular group has very advanced tools and IT skills and have years of experience with causing disruptions.

I am glad they are targeting them and I would not doubt if they are successful on disrupting some of their propaganda. Part of ISIS power is being able to use the internet to try to convince lost or weak minded souls and if this group is able to stop some of that then it is a good thing.

 

[cottonweaver]

Breaking News "Citing a government source, AFP has said that French nationals returning from Syria may be put under house arrest:" Agence-France-Presse


Earlier today in his speech, Hollande said he would also consider changing the law to revoke citizenship.
Sounds great but how on earth does that work if the returnee is a French national ?

Everything that we were warned about, returning fighters and home-grown terrorism is happening. This is as much as a problem in France, Belgium, UK............no-one is immune, borders are no protection, even if the EU didn't exist - it just makes it easier. .

 

[Tadpole12]

So a government that puts restrictions on a million or more unknown foreigners trying to force their way across the borders is just a hairs width away from the Gestapo going house to house to check under beds???

Wow. Why bother having borders at all?

"The public mood changes,
internment becomes a possibility.
The next thing you know the army is doing a home by home search,
room by room, looking in your closets and under your bed, for terrorists, hostages, and weapons."-Tadpole12

No.
That's just my personal experience regarding the enactment of the War Measures Act in Canada when I was a child.
My off the cuff comment to cottonweaver wrt UK.
Sorry If I distressed you.

 

[Bravo]

Years ago that may have been the case but nowadays this group is a formidable threat to anyone they target as far as able to bring down their website or change it to different content.

This particular group has very advanced tools and IT skills and have years of experience with causing disruptions.

I am glad they are targeting them and I would not doubt if they are successful on disrupting some of their propaganda. Part of ISIS power is being able to use the internet to try to convince lost or weak minded souls and if this group is able to stop some of that then it is a good thing.

Agree. Have at er Anonymous

 

[Mrs G Norris]

These guys are good at hacking into sites, regardless of who they are. They were able to get names of people subscribing to a sex site and those affiliated with the KKK. If nothing else, they will make them change their communication methods.

They should leave it to the government and stop thinking they're doing some kind of public service when in reality they're just messing with things they have no way of understanding. Likely to do more harm than good.

 

[cottonweaver]

“I was held hostage by Isis. They fear our unity more than our airstrikes”, writes Nicholas Henin, a French journalist who was held captive by Isis for 10 months:

As a proud Frenchman I am as distressed as anyone about the events in Paris. But I am not shocked or incredulous. I know Islamic State. I spent 10 months as an Isis hostage, and I know for sure that our pain, our grief, our hopes, our lives do not touch them. Theirs is a world apart.

Most people only know them from their propaganda material, but I have seen behind that. In my time as their captive, I met perhaps a dozen of them, includingMohammed Emwazi: Jihadi John was one of my jailers. He nicknamed me “Baldy”.

Even now I sometimes chat with them on social media, and can tell you that much of what you think of them results from their brand of marketing and public relations. They present themselves to the public as superheroes, but away from the camera are a bit pathetic in many ways: street kids drunk on ideology and power. In France we have a saying – stupid and evil. I found them more stupid than evil. That is not to understate the murderous potential of stupidity.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...mbs-hostage-syria-islamic-state-paris-attacks

cannot u'stand why he chats to some on social media, but hey ho - he is a journalist so maybe it is useful?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

How does it prove that?

Because if they were already sure the refugees coming over were perfectly safe, why would they be stopping them now? Or are politicians just reacting to public sentiment with little regard to the reality of the situation in a grab for vote?

OK I think I just answered my own question, there is nothing wrong with the refugees heading over, and our politicians and punishing innocent folk for polularist reasons.

 

[bluesneakers]

"The public mood changes,
internment becomes a possibility.
The next thing you know the army is doing a home by home search,
room by room, looking in your closets and under your bed, for terrorists, hostages, and weapons."-Tadpole12

No.
That's just my personal experience regarding the enactment of the War Measures Act in Canada when I was a child.
My off the cuff comment to cottonweaver wrt UK.
Sorry If I distressed you.

Oh god, those tanks. Terrifying to think something like that could be done here.
Just watch me.

 

[bluesneakers]

Because if they were already sure the refugees coming over were perfectly safe, why would they be stopping them now?

It has nothing to do with what they think of the refugees. Why did they wait until today to make this announcement? IMO they're using false bravado and fear to rally their anti-Obama anti-Federal Government citizens. Primaries are starting up soon!

 

[bessie]

That is what I thought. So all the governors that are refusing are not entirely telling the truth. So if refugees are brought to some of these states, what's going to happen if they refuse medical, housing or food assistance? That is really going to go over big. And how can you not give food to people? I would like to read more about this, if anyone has an article about the states bringing in refugees.

The assistance comes from federal programs and grants to local agencies.

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/orr/resource/the-us-refugee-resettlement-program-an-overview

 

[Mrs G Norris]

It has nothing to do with what they think of the refugees. Why did they wait until today to make this announcement? IMO they're using false bravado and fear to rally their anti-Obama anti-Federal Government citizens. Primaries are starting up soon!

Yep, I added to my comment above with something similar. Stopping the poor refugees coming in, who are fleeing these same folk we're all so horrified by, is just punishing the victims to appease the lowest common (voting) denominator.

 

[Trident]

That is what I thought. So all the governors that are refusing are not entirely telling the truth. So if refugees are brought to some of these states, what's going to happen if they refuse medical, housing or food assistance? That is really going to go over big. And how can you not give food to people? I would like to read more about this, if anyone has an article about the states bringing in refugees.

They could probably refuse them food the same way they do the elderly who are ineligible for food stamps or "assistance", and the thousands of homeless in this country. IMO

 

[Sonya610]

Because if they were already sure the refugees coming over were perfectly safe, why would they be stopping them now? Or are politicians just reacting to public sentiment with little regard to the reality of the situation in a grab for vote?

I think the Governors are making the statement because they know many of the people in their state feel that way.

They are supposed to represent the voice of the people and if they do that I don't care if their "true motive" is garnering more votes.

 

[gia2]

This particular group has very advanced tools and IT skills and have years of experience with causing disruptions.

I am glad they are targeting them and I would not doubt if they are successful on disrupting some of their propaganda. Part of ISIS power is being able to use the internet to try to convince lost or weak minded souls and if this group is able to stop some of that then it is a good thing.

Exactly! We've been told by security forces that it is difficult to monitor the communication of ISIS members because of the channels they're using, so we need people who will think outside of the box to access those channels. That very well might be Anonymous. They've certainly proven they are capable of accessing secure information and causing disruption where they've wanted in the past.

I don't think you should write them off because some may be young or 'living in their parent's basement'. It really doesn't matter. Some of these people are dedicated, very intelligent and innovative. They can gain an exceptional level of knowledge very young.

I have a friend like this from school. At 11 or 12 he hacked the school network and stopped anyone logging in and using any of the computers (not just students, the admin couldn't access student records or anything). He was told off by the police and the school had to get experts to sort out the mess he'd made. He was told he'd get expelled if he went within so many feet of a computer again.

He ended up hacking the school payment system and removed the IT staff's salary from being paid, they didn't realize until after he should have been paid and it caused so much trouble for him. He did loads of things to taunt them, most of the time they couldn't prove it was him. He ended up getting expelled, but now works as a professional penetrator (he is a consultant and his job is to try to hack systems to see how vulnerable they are, then he finds ways to fix them). He earns so much money. He just loves the challenge.


Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to share how some very young people (even 15+ years ago) can know a huge amount and know what professionals just don't learn formally.

 

[cottonweaver]

Years ago that may have been the case but nowadays this group is a formidable threat to anyone they target as far as able to bring down their website or change it to different content.

This particular group has very advanced tools and IT skills and have years of experience with causing disruptions.

I am glad they are targeting them and I would not doubt if they are successful on disrupting some of their propaganda. Part of ISIS power is being able to use the internet to try to convince lost or weak minded souls and if this group is able to stop some of that then it is a good thing.

The ex ISIS hostage agrees with you Hatfield

"It struck me forcefully how technologically connected they are; they follow the news obsessively, but everything they see goes through their own filter. They are totally indoctrinated, clinging to all manner of conspiracy theories, never acknowledging the contradictions....

With their news and social media interest, they will be noting everything that follows their murderous assault on Paris, and my guess is that right now the chant among them will be “We are winning”. They will be heartened by every sign of overreaction, of division, of fear, of racism, of xenophobia; they will be drawn to any examples of ugliness on social media.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...mbs-hostage-syria-islamic-state-paris-attacks

Pity that Tricia from WS can't send them a WS membership, we would all give them a run for their money!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think the Governors are making the statement because they know many of the people in their state feel that way.

They are supposed to represent the voice of the people and if they do that I don't care if their "true motive" is garnering more votes.

Even if the voice of the people is uneducated? They could always stand up and appease the voters by giving them some facts, but no, it's simpler just to pander to the fear mongering put forward by certain media empires.

 

[bessie]

Doesn't this just prove that we have no way of vetting the refugees, I mean if they were sure these people were not affiliated with ISIS in any way, there would be no threat, so why were they letting people into your, and my, country that could possibly have been ISIS plants? This is very scary, and it means of course they've already probably let a fair few in.

The resettlement program is operated by the Federal government. Gov. Jindal of Louisiana claims he was left in the dark.

"As with former immigration crises and federal relocation policy, Louisiana has been kept in the dark about those seeking refuge in the state," Jindal wrote. "It is irresponsible and severely disconcerting to place individuals, who may have ties to ISIS, in a state without the state's knowledge or involvement."

Considering the Paris attacks Friday, for which the Islamic State of Syria and Iraq have claimed credit, Jindal recommended that the Obama administration halt the process of Syrian refugees resettling in the United States. "Authorities need to investigate what happened in Europe before this problem comes to the United States," he wrote.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/11/gov_jindal_demands_more_inform.html

Why didn't he make it his business to know? It wasn't exactly a secret, covert operation. JMO, but this is simply a big push to gain political leverage.

 

[Momoffourboys]

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/16/calais-refugees-mourn-paris-fear-islamophobia.html


Calais refugees grieve for Paris while dreading Islamophobic backlash

 

[bluesneakers]

Even if the voice of the people is uneducated? They could always stand up and appease the voters by giving them some facts, but no, it's simpler just to pander to the fear mongering put forward by certain media empires.

I wonder how welcoming state governments will be when refugees arrive? I hope they are welcoming and supportive, especially in states where the refugees will be most feared and vilified. Maybe the people can follow their leaders' leads. Hate only breeds more hate.