France - Explosions and shooting in Paris, 13 November 2015 #2

[FindHG]

Kerry: U.S. promises to help Paris terror investigation
CBSNEWS
NOVEMBER 17, 2015, 8:03 AM

An interview from shortly after meeting with President Hollande, today.

 

[cottonweaver]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...terrorists-trying-impose-Sharia-law-West.html

The man launches in to a three-minute tirade about the gunmen who murdered 132 people in Paris saying: 'If you don't like this country, why the f*** did you come?'
He said Islam 'teaches you to be tolerant and to respect other people's faiths' and called for the preaching of 'logic, reason and love'.
he unnamed man, sitting in what appears to be a library, suggests he is based in France when he tells the camera: 'The question is, do you have the right to kill? F*** you, you don't.
'If you don't like this country, why the f*** do you come? If you do not have respect for this country, why the f*** do you come?
'You came, you know why, because you believed the judiciary here gives you protection, because the laws here give you protection, because the economy here makes you flourish. Why the f*** did you come otherwise?
'If you do not have the guts to digest whatever you are seeing, ****** off, leave.'
He adds: 'What does your religion, our religion, my religion Islam teach us? Islam teaches you to be tolerant and to respect other people's faiths.
'But if their views do not respect what are you going to do, go and shoot in this 21st century? No you cannot do that. You have to accept that in these countries, Islamic law does not rule.
'If you want to win the hearts and minds of the people in your views, go and preach. You do not f*****g shoot people to believe in whatever you are or I am believing - correct?

 

[K_Z]

Good article and makes a lot of sense. One does have to look at group behavior and cultural connections and maybe a pattern flows. I'd also wonder which mosque the perps seemed to visit and after hours social life.

I don't think it stops there though, I see fear and intimidation being used as in believe in the caliphate or be kafir.

One thing that's been tugging at me was the use of the PS4 or XBox one. I've watched hours of remote teams playing "gears of war" and I can't dismiss the similarity to this whole attack on Paris by a team of well armed commandos. Lets not forget teams can have voice communications while playing another team in a game of COD and the other team cant hear them communicate. I wonder if some recruiting is being done by becoming friendly with other gamers but only to be used as lone wolfs. This goes for PS3's and older gaming systems.

Rambling on here

BBM. Yes! And these are largely young men, who are quite comfortable with digital and social media tech. There are also numerous phone & computer apps that can be used for voice and text communication. (As well as having the side benefit of being free to use in wifi.) I use these regularly for travel outside the U.S. to avoid costly ordinary wireless calls. Some of these apps you can set up a friend group so that when your friends are geographically close to you, it will alert you so you can connect.

I'm not sure how or if many of these can be tracked or monitored by ordinary security channels, but my sense is that these kind of apps are being developed and morphing month by month, making it harder to monitor.

Seems like only ordinary (old!) humans use dinosaur technology like regular voice calls and text messages anymore, which are painfully easy for intell organizations to track. A lot of young adults are cash poor, and addicted to their phones, so they are pretty clever and savvy about how to get communication and data for the least amount of cash.

A smart terrorist organization would continuously switch it up, and not use the same communication technology regularly. Let's say you want to have communications during a terrorist attack, or during the planning stages. You pick out one obscure app to use, test it once or so with innocuous conversation well in advance, and then use it only once during the attack. Would be very hard to track who the people are who used it, or what was used, IMO. To make it even harder to track, this could be combined with the older method of buying disposable smart cell phones to be used only once.

If I can figure out something like this (and I'm not particularly devious or tech smart), think how much more "clever" the terrorists can be. They have IT specialists thinking up this stuff all day long. But yes-- gaming apps are even better than ordinary communication apps. Easier to hide inside while communicating.

 

[Trident]

Michigan’s delay on Syrian refugees spurs debate

Mark Hicks, The Detroit News 12:25 a.m. EST November 17, 2015

The decision to suspend moving Syrian refugees into Michigan is drawing mixed reactions from Metro Detroiters, opening up debate on the region’s role as a haven for Mideast immigrants.

When Jihad Alharash visits newly resettled Syrian families that his volunteer group works with, he’s reluctant to mention now how others from that region in the world now will face a harder time reaching Michigan or the United States.

“What happened in Paris and France is such a crime. Nobody can even say a word. I mean all of our hearts are broken … but do you blame these poor families who are coming from Syria, do you just close your doors against them?” said Alharash, a doctor involved with the Syrian American Medical Society and newly formed Syrian American Rescue Network...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/2015/11/16/michigan-syrian-refugees-reaction/75908874/

BBM. You can cry me a river Jihad Alharash, just like the rest of us are crying for Paris.

And then we have a "Syrian American Medical Society"? Don't we have an AMERICAN Medical Society? Makes me wonder why we need a seperate one for Syrians. Maybe they won't assimilate? I think they should become American or go back to Syria.

 

[cottonweaver]

Two fighter arrested at UK port, headed for Syria

UK police have detained two men for terrorism offences as they tried to leave the country, but said the arrests were not linked to attacks in Paris, AFP reports.

Police said the men, aged 22 and 20, were arrested early on Sunday at the ferry terminal in Dover.

“I would firstly like to confirm these arrests are not linked to the Paris terrorist incidents and there is no immediate threat to the local community,” said Ian Hunter, head of investigations of the South East Counter Terrorism Unit.

“These men were trying to leave the UK via Dover and were arrested following good work by Kent police officers at the port.”

That's all well and good but what about the other 350+ who have already returned to the UK? They need electronic tagging as per Sarkozy comments and investigation into war crimes committed abroad!


http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...ench-police-launch-fresh-raids-overnight-live

 

[cottonweaver]

A Twitter account @ParisVictims, set up by the website Mashable, has been tweeting tributes, once every hour, to the victims of Friday’s attacks, describing the lives of those who were murdered.

https://twitter.com/ParisVictims?lang=en

 

[cottonweaver]

Country of origin of foreign fighters to Syria

source:Washington Post

 

[KateB]

What is the actual breakdown in terms of nationalities of the 7?

17:05
All terrorists were EU citizens - EU chief

Matthew Holehouse writes: Federica Mogherini, the EU's chief diplomat, says that all the attackers are so far believed to be EU citizens. She speaks after a meeting of EU foreign ministers.

"Let me underline, the profile of the terrorists so far identified tells us this is an internal threat," said the High Representative. She notes the external EU border is an issue regarding returning jihadis. But she adds: "It is all EU citizens so far. This can change with the hours, but so far it is quite clear it is an issue of internal domestic security."

Her comments may be part of a pre-emptive effort to help defend Schengen in the coming weeks.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...suspects-Syria-Raqqa-boming-arrests-live.html

Also, the NY Times interactive indicates the nationality for 6 of the 8 here: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ackage-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

[K_Z]

Cottonweaver-- I think I just said a lot of the same things you said in post 417. I apologize-- I didn't read far enough back!

 

[cottonweaver]

Not many British footie fans will know the lyrics to the anthem so populist tabloid has printed it for them.
Lots of people will be watching that match ( Eng vs France friendly tonight )



source - Daily Mirror

 

[FindHG]

MORNING JOE
Report: Police arrest three in Germany
NBC News confirms police have arrested three people this morning in Alsdorf, Germany in connection to last week's Paris attacks. Duration: 0:22

11/17/15

Encrypted apps leave terror trail undetectable
Former FBI head Shawn Henry joins Morning Joe to discuss how terrorists are going dark on the web and using encrypted apps. Henry discusses how to combat this. Duration: 3:05

 

[KateB]

Country of origin of foreign fighters to Syria

Source? I can't read the fine print to find it.

 

[Mollyandme]

First post in this thread...so please excuse the length! I read all of your very thoughtful and thought provoking posts and appreciate the different perspectives. It is absolutely heartbreaking seeing pictures of those murdered. Behind every single victim is someone's baby, someone's whole entire world, a brother, sister, parent, best friend...it is devastating. We have two very close family friends who play a professional sport in France. One has yet to go back over because it's the offseason for her sport, but our other friend is currently an hour from Paris. His mother came running over to my parents house last week in tears while she waited with my parents and some other close friends for word, as they often go to Paris when they have a few days off. Very scary watching a mother go through that agony. Thank god he is safe, but seeing the pain of uncertainty for those few hours shook me to my core. I cannot even imagine how the French people felt and continue to feel and the pain that those who were and still are waiting for confirmation about their loved ones must be experiencing.

I am disgusted by Isis. i don't really have much to add to that comment that is appropriate for this forum but I will say that I believe, as many have already posted, that Isis members who would be plotting an attack against the USA are already here in this country.

When i got home last night I listened to a ten minute rant from my husband about how the new governor of our state announced we will take as many Syrian refugees as possible. He was very angry, also because he served in Iraq and it was announced that more money will be allocated to the refugees than for veterans. On a personal level, the veteran issue makes me very angry and would still make me angry even if I wasn't married to a veteran. However, the issue about our state accepting refugees and the statement by our governor I recognized for what it is and tried to explain this to my husband. i have mixed feelings about refugees coming here. If it wasn't for my Lebanese uncle being able to flee Lebanon and come here when he was younger, he never would have met my aunt and I wouldn't have my amazing uncle and the two sweetest cousins that are such an important part of my life. We spend every Easter with them and his side of the family and learning about their food and traditions is one of my favorite things. So I guess I'm trying to see this from both sides. Either way, the Isis members who would most likely strike first here in the states are most likely already here, which is a sad and scary thought. On that note, I'm going to enjoy the day and the freedoms we have here in this wonderful country. I will post more later!

 

[FindHG]

[video=youtube;4S7ODBIeTlM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S7ODBIeTlM[/video]
La Marseillaise - Karaoké Tono más bajo (La Marsellesa) Francés
EasyFrench

Welcome, Mollyandme, with a little fanfare, as it turns out. Thank you very much for joining and for pitching in long and so beautifully. Thank you for taking the time. I hope WS is of some solace and the source of some strength in knowing how much your well being matters to us. What you have to say is most important. Please know WS, from what I know, is first and foremost here for the families hurt by monstrosities.

First post in this thread...so please excuse the length! I read all of your very thoughtful and thought provoking posts and appreciate the different perspectives. It is absolutely heartbreaking seeing pictures of those murdered. Behind every single victim is someone's baby, someone's whole entire world, a brother, sister, parent, best friend...it is devastating. We have two very close family friends who play a professional sport in France. One has yet to go back over because it's the offseason for her sport, but our other friend is currently an hour from Paris. His mother came running over to my parents house last week in tears while she waited with my parents and some other close friends for word, as they often go to Paris when they have a few days off. Very scary watching a mother go through that agony. Thank god he is safe, but seeing the pain of uncertainty for those few hours shook me to my core. I cannot even imagine how the French people felt and continue to feel and the pain that those who were and still are waiting for confirmation about their loved ones must be experiencing.

I am disgusted by Isis. i don't really have much to add to that comment that is appropriate for this forum but I will say that I believe, as many have already posted, that Isis members who would be plotting an attack against the USA are already here in this country.

When i got home last night I listened to a ten minute rant from my husband about how the new governor of our state announced we will take as many Syrian refugees as possible. He was very angry, also because he served in Iraq and it was announced that more money will be allocated to the refugees than for veterans. On a personal level, the veteran issue makes me very angry and would still make me angry even if I wasn't married to a veteran. However, the issue about our state accepting refugees and the statement by our governor I recognized for what it is and tried to explain this to my husband. i have mixed feelings about refugees coming here. If it wasn't for my Lebanese uncle being able to flee Lebanon and come here when he was younger, he never would have met my aunt and I wouldn't have my amazing uncle and the two sweetest cousins that are such an important part of my life. We spend every Easter with them and his side of the family and learning about their food and traditions is one of my favorite things. So I guess I'm trying to see this from both sides. Either way, the Isis members who would most likely strike first here in the states are most likely already here, which is a sad and scary thought. On that note, I'm going to enjoy the day and the freedoms we have here in this wonderful country. I will post more later!

 

[K_Z]

Yes, we have a massive problem, even if just set aside the refugee issue for a moment - "they" are already here

How much are we all going to spend on this, considering it is still a small albeit terrible risk? I see in France this morning they are debating ID checks on trains - imagine the expense and delays on inter-city travel.



What does p*** me off is my govt telling me it's all under control - whether it is national security/readiness for this sort of calamity, screening of refugees, the monitoring of our home-grown jihadi wannabes....
Over here in UK we have only just faced up to the reality of the "Trojan Horse" plot whereby a very large number of schools were effectively taken over by hard line Islamicists preaching misogyny, homophobia and cultural intolerance.( It was hardly a surprise to me and many others.....but the State did not want to face this head on. )
We have a huge problem in UK secondary schools, colleges and universities all hiding under the protection of free speech, tolerance etc.

I hate to say this, because I know I'll be flamed, but the answer is "intolerance". Carefully prescribed and assertively implememented intolerance for certain dangeous and terrorist ideas and actions. The Israelis have done a good job with this, IMO.

Tolerance of everyone, everything, and every murderous idea is a luxury that civilization can no longer afford, if civilization is to continue to exist. When a group of people with an ideology that wants to kill us because of their religion, or disagreement with our western lifestyle, then it's time to be intolerant of anyone and anything that supports that, IMO. Our survival depends on a thoughtful and deliberate approach to intolerance.

And yeah-- I'm extremely well aware of "how hard" it will be to DEFINE what is okay, and what isn't, and to persuade the liberal masses that it is our tolerance that is killing us with regard to crime and terrorism and radical ideologies. I'm more than willing to have that conversation and political battle to protect my country and our way of life against those who want to kill us all.

(Donning my flame proof suit.)

 

[cottonweaver]

sounds highly suspicious to me !

Two men are being held in connection with the Paris attacks after accompanying Abdeslam back to Belgium from France, a Belgian newspaper has reported

The men – 21-year-olds from Molenbeek, Brussels – are quoted in La Libre Belgique as saying they had no idea what Abdeslam had been doing in Paris when they received a call from him at 2am and they picked him up in a Volkswagen Golf at about 5am in the Barbès district of the French capital.

La Libre alleged that ammonium nitrate had been found at their homes, raising suspicions they could have been involved in the production of explosives used in the attackers’ suicide belts.

The report says the other man drove the car back from Paris to their homes in Molenbeek and was stopped three times. At that time, however, the police were unaware that Abdeslam had flagged as a suspect. Both men said Abdeslam had not talked much during the journey. “He was a bit stressed,” one was quoted as saying.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...ench-police-launch-fresh-raids-overnight-live

 

[Momoffourboys]

Can governors legally reject Syrian refugees?

Snip

These governors are likely standing on shaky ground, as there is no legal way for them to prevent refugee resettlement, according to multiple experts. And their opposition is largely symbolic, since once Syrians (or any refugees) are in the U.S., they have the right to travel anywhere they want, just like any other resident. If the Obama administration wanted to challenge these governors on their threats, they would handily beat them in court, experts say.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/can-governors-really-reject-syrian-refugees-000440043.html

 

[Momoffourboys]

Updated list.

The Victims

Nick Alexander, 36, Colchester, England

— Thomas Ayad, 32, Amiens, France.

— Elodie Breuil, 23.

— Guillaume Decherf, 43.

— Elsa Veronique Delplace San Martin, 35, France. Daughter of Patricia San Martin Nunez.

— Asta Diakite.

— Elif Dogan, 28, Belgium.

— Fabrice Dubois.

— Thomas Duperron, 30, Alencon, France.

— Germain Ferey, 36, Paris.

— Gregory Fosse, 28, Gambais, France.

— Michelli Gil Jaimez, Tuxpans, Mexico.

— Matthieu Giroud, 38, Jarrie, France.

— Nohemi Gonzalez, 23, Long Beach, California.

— Alberto Gonzalez Garrido, 29, Madrid.

— Anne Guyomard, 29, Saint-Germain-en-Laye, France.

— Pierre-Yves Guyomard, 32, Saint-Germain-en-Laye, France.

— Mathieu Hoche, 38, France.

— Djamila Houd, 41, Paris.

— Mohamed Amine Ibnolmobarak, 29.

— Pierro Innocenti, 40, Paris.

— Patricia San Martin Nunez, 61, France, mother of Elsa Veronique Delplace San Martin.

— Cédric Mauduit, Calvados, France.

— Fanny Minot, 29, Paris.

— Marie Mosser, 24, Nancy, France.

— Justine Moulin, 23, Paris.

— Helene Muyal, 35, Paris.

— Bertrand Navarret, 37, Capbreton, France.

— Aurélie de Peretti, 33, Saint Tropez, France.

— Francois-Xavier Prevost, 29.

— Sebastien Proisy, 38.

— Valentin Ribet, 26.

— Halima Saadi.

— Hodda Saadi, sister of Halima Saadi.

— Kheireddine Sahbi, 29.

— Lola Salines, 28, Paris.

— Valeria Solesin, 28, Italy.

— Ariane Theiller, 23.

— Luis Felipe Zschoche Valle, 33, Paris.

http://news.yahoo.com/partial-list-victims-paris-terrorist-attacks-185821961.html

 

[Momoffourboys]

Lives cut cruelly short. Photos of the victims.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng.../paris-attack-victims-lives-cut-cruelly-short

 

[Momoffourboys]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/18/world/europe/paris-attacks.html?_r=0


PARIS — The Belgian man suspected of being the plotter of the Paris terrorist attacks was a target of Western airstrikes on the Islamic State stronghold of Raqqa, Syria, as recently as last month, according to a European security official.